I also wondered why the other "arts" weren't told to put down their hammers and the like. Why were musicians singled out?
Actually TWI treated all the arts with disregarrd. I consider myself an artist have always loved painting sculpting and china painting. THey held a special seminar in spring 1981??? for all the artists in the way. One of the big focuses of the seminar was how ALL of our art work should be focused around TWI or Bringing the bible to life visually) I am not sure how that progressed later but there was a big push at that time to get the artisits into refocusing all their efforts toward biblical or TWI based endeavors. No matter your art speciality it was supposed to be bent and used only in the way TWI felt was appropriate. As I left before the devil spirits in everything really had a chance to fester into a full blown evilness... I would expect you were then told the evilness of your work and how it would not be a blessing to TWI or God if you didn't produce what they wanted. But that is me just extrapolating.
Edited to Add... THis post was in no way intended to take focus away from what happened to the musicians but to point out that they did it to other artists too not just the musicians.
Sorry folks I've been in hibernation for a few months, us Polar Bears need winter fun in the sun.
I've been trying to catch up and came across this great thread. Thanks to all for the great insight here.
Twi was an elitist organization. If you didn't hear it from twi, it was "of the world" (devilish)...this included music.
I was told by twi leaders in the 70's that Jerry Garcia was "off the word"...as well as many other fabulous musicians.
ego problems?...HA! The drambuie sucking sex predator had the biggest ego that I've ever seen...and from what I can tell, his taste in music was that of an Ohio corn farmer (if that tells you anything).
It seems to me that twi leadership hindered the creativity of some very talented musicians...but what else is new?
Bingo-
Sorry Ted-you were one of few who had good experiences. I think VP knew well enough to leave you alone because you were older and more mature than the rest of us young ones VP could easily influence. But you have to admit you did leave. And you did leave pretty early on. After you left it got worse every year as the MOGs ego grew with the growth of the ministry.
Yes the ministry had it's front group of musicians who VP used to get to people's pocketbooks. I think that's what his goal was he was a businessman. This was his corporation. He used them for his purposes.
I was involved in a small way in some Way Prod events. VP totally had to be in charge. It was disgusting. It was his way or the highway. I won't go into details.
And yes the ministry for the most part sucked the life out of it's people including the musicians. I used to love writing songs but couldn't do it for years even after I left.
Fortunately I have seen some of the "love of life" I used to have come back, thanks to many of you here and thanks to God for just blessing me now that I'm free from "twi"s grip.
In fact last year I started writing again and next month I'm coming out with a CD. I have been inspired by my love for sailing and boating to write some fun music for that genre. We'll see where is goes.
VPW did not understand that with the arts you had to practice your craft daily, including musical literature. To abstain from your musical calling/talents given by God, you need to work/pratice/reherse daily, not stop/quit practicing and be brainwashed to quote scripture from memory like a parrot, using retemories like Godly magical spells to frighten Satan away. That's witchcraft when scripture/Bible is abused. Even Satan can quote scripture accurately/correctly, then twist its meaning. As I said before, I don't know if Victor took piano or band in school, or if he took classes on hymnody and worship/liturgy in college or seminary, or sang in choirs(outside of children's).
I also wondered why the other "arts" weren't told to put down their hammers and the like. Why were musicians singled out?
</snip>
Just guessing here, but maybe the TWI ups didn't consider music a career, just a hobby?
there's the keyword: "hobby". if you were doing something that you didn't make money at, it was a hobby, not a calling, and you should drop it. that made even getting started as a professional artist really hard as a college kid, because you don't get paid as you go. you work your butt off as an investment hoping you'll be able to support yourself in the future. to twi, this is unacceptable because there's no ABS from it. the pressure to create using only certain themes and on demand was also overwhelming and killed my drive to create. the pressure was on artists of all kinds.
I quit drawing and painting for years because my life was under such a microscope. finally, this year and after lots of therapy, I'm getting back what I once had, and I find I still have the potential to make a living as an artist.
I got into the way while in college studying art, then struggled for years with what to do with it. Any time spent drawing, painting, anything, was time not spent in classes, witnessing, reading the Bible, or most importantly LOOKING like you were doing something 'profitable'. Nothing was less important than my personal career and life goals.
That I was able to pull it together after I got out, and actually make a career out of art after years of neglect, seems like the biggest miracle of all.
Actually TWI treated all the arts with disregarrd. I consider myself an artist have always loved painting sculpting and china painting. THey held a special seminar in spring 1981??? for all the artists in the way. One of the big focuses of the seminar was how ALL of our art work should be focused around TWI or Bringing the bible to life visually) I am not sure how that progressed later but there was a big push at that time to get the artisits into refocusing all their efforts toward biblical or TWI based endeavors. No matter your art speciality it was supposed to be bent and used only in the way TWI felt was appropriate. As I left before the devil spirits in everything really had a chance to fester into a full blown evilness... I would expect you were then told the evilness of your work and how it would not be a blessing to TWI or God if you didn't produce what they wanted. But that is me just extrapolating.
Edited to Add... This post was in no way intended to take focus away from what happened to the musicians but to point out that they did it to other artists too not just the musicians.
I spent three years in-residence (one at Emporia in the College Division, and two at HQ in the Corps). Each year we were told to "set aside" whatever it was that we were good at: music, art, whatever... to put aside our own egos and focus primarily on the Word. And most of us obeyed, thinking this was our chance to really FOCUS on God. To learn to better rely on HIM and not ourselves. --- No question, twi was very, very good at stripping away what made each of us UNIQUE individuals and converting us into generic, mind-numbed twibots.
As for WayProd, I wasn't involved until the 80s and beyond, when the control was already firmly in place. I have no knowledge of what happened in the early days but I can't help but wonder if Ted's experience was different from so many other peoples' because Ted was, well, TED. He was talented and spiritual and Vic knew it. I think he knew he absolutely couldn't get away with ever treating Ted the way he got away with treating other folks. So he didn't do it. Vic was nothing if not a chameleon! And in my experience, bullies usually know who they can and cannot mess with.
I spent three years in-residence (one at Emporia in the College Division, and two at HQ in the Corps). Each year we were told to "set aside" whatever it was that we were good at: music, art, whatever... to put aside our own egos and focus primarily on the Word. And most of us obeyed, thinking this was our chance to really FOCUS on God. To learn to better rely on HIM and not ourselves. --- No question, twi was very, very good at stripping away what made each of us UNIQUE individuals and converting us into generic, mind-numbed twibots.
As for WayProd, I wasn't involved until the 80s and beyond, when the control was already firmly in place. I have no knowledge of what happened in the early days but I can't help but wonder if Ted's experience was different from so many other peoples' because Ted was, well, TED. He was talented and spiritual and Vic knew it. I think he knew he absolutely couldn't get away with ever treating Ted the way he got away with treating other folks. So he didn't do it. Vic was nothing if not a chameleon! And in my experience, bullies usually know who they can and cannot mess with.
Thanks for sharing that any art was set aside. Too bad.
Yes, I was a part of a major recording act. There was an attempt to potentially capitalize on the celebrity and all, but there was too much focus on the NFL players and politicians.
I agree that Ted may have been treated differently, well, because he was Ted. At least that was my perception.
My point being that the Hdqrtrs Way Productions was supposted to be carried in through the limbs and into the twigs. But, unfortunately it was my experience that the arts weren't encouraged for whatever reason. And when those of us who made a living on the road were gone from attending our "home" twig, I found I was questioned as to why I didn't seek out a twig in the area I traveled. The chasm between say, the Rolling Stones and Joyful Noise lifestyles was just too wide. At least it was taught that way. Working on the road made my own personal time with the Great Spirit even more valuable. But in some Way legalism, without fellowshipping and sacrificing my art to show my love for God, I was somehow coming up short.
I play everyday. Sing, write. Hang out with my heathen (non-way-green-card grads) friends. Continue to walk with my Heavenly Father. Having a blast.
My children include Les Paul, Leo Fender, Taylor(s), Takamine, Martin. Madonna may go to foreign countries to adopt children, but I travel hither and thither to find my new family members.
Ted also wasn`t a kid either, I doubt that he would have put up with what ol vp was dishing out to everyone else. I met him for a weekend once, I was in charge if showing the visiting dignitary around...etc.....he stayed in our home...and have to say that he was a gentleman.
I also think that VPW attempted to surround himself with successful people to add an air of legitimacy to himself and his organization.
Ex 10 said vpw knew whom, he could get away with stuff and whom he couldn`t. There were people that he never showed his true side to.
This weekend I got together and played with a Christian friend in the neighborhood (who's never heard of TWI ) and it was great to be able to play my songs without worrying about not fitting the "productions" mold. We're going to get together again and try out new songs on each other and it's the sort of environment I wish my "believer band" had.
If you are going to lead people to God and encourage them with music it has to have heart in it. Not just God's heart, but your heart. What I saw at the end of my 2nd stay with TWI was dead music. It was perfect, every note was right, dynamics were good, mix was good. But there was no energy or heart to the music. It sounded like it was all performed by studio musicians, who hated the music they were playing but needed the money. So they just didn't put any heart to it.
I can understand a minister nixing a song for service if he had a specific need for songs about specific subject but otherwise....
Currently I play guitar for our churches praise and worship. I love it. Yes the minister controls it, but then he is also the Rhythm guitarist and his wife plays keyboards, very well I might add.) But he give me a lot of leway in what I try to add. Closing our eys while we play, only becomes hard because I don't know the songs by heart and I'm reading music. Lots of improv regarding what we are doing, I never know if we are going to play the song as rehersed or rearrange the order while playing. When we do, it's almost always awsome.
Recommended Posts
Top Posters In This Topic
7
10
6
9
Popular Days
Mar 5
15
Feb 28
15
Mar 1
13
Mar 2
13
Top Posters In This Topic
skyrider 7 posts
socks 10 posts
TOMMYZ 6 posts
waysider 9 posts
Popular Days
Mar 5 2009
15 posts
Feb 28 2009
15 posts
Mar 1 2009
13 posts
Mar 2 2009
13 posts
Popular Posts
Tzaia
Just to put this in perspective (not that I disagree with what happened in TWI), it is common to think of musicians as ego-centric by Christian organizations. There are people who make a living at dri
waysider
Stepping up to the microphone is a bit like stepping up to the plate in baseball. You have to have a certain confidence that you are about to hit one out of the park. Call it ego if you want but it is
potato
I only watched high country caravan on video. I didn't like them, but I never like hee-haw either, and they seemed like a direct rip off of the whole idea. yeah, like the SERMONS? those were just li
Watered Garden
WOW!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
leafytwiglet
Actually TWI treated all the arts with disregarrd. I consider myself an artist have always loved painting sculpting and china painting. THey held a special seminar in spring 1981??? for all the artists in the way. One of the big focuses of the seminar was how ALL of our art work should be focused around TWI or Bringing the bible to life visually) I am not sure how that progressed later but there was a big push at that time to get the artisits into refocusing all their efforts toward biblical or TWI based endeavors. No matter your art speciality it was supposed to be bent and used only in the way TWI felt was appropriate. As I left before the devil spirits in everything really had a chance to fester into a full blown evilness... I would expect you were then told the evilness of your work and how it would not be a blessing to TWI or God if you didn't produce what they wanted. But that is me just extrapolating.
Edited to Add... THis post was in no way intended to take focus away from what happened to the musicians but to point out that they did it to other artists too not just the musicians.
Edited by leafytwigletLink to comment
Share on other sites
GeorgeStGeorge
Just guessing here, but maybe the TWI ups didn't consider music a career, just a hobby?
George
Link to comment
Share on other sites
excathedra
thanks waysider that was great
Link to comment
Share on other sites
excathedra
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1UMlGWFBWo
Link to comment
Share on other sites
polar bear
Sorry folks I've been in hibernation for a few months, us Polar Bears need winter fun in the sun.
I've been trying to catch up and came across this great thread. Thanks to all for the great insight here.
Bingo-
Sorry Ted-you were one of few who had good experiences. I think VP knew well enough to leave you alone because you were older and more mature than the rest of us young ones VP could easily influence. But you have to admit you did leave. And you did leave pretty early on. After you left it got worse every year as the MOGs ego grew with the growth of the ministry.
Yes the ministry had it's front group of musicians who VP used to get to people's pocketbooks. I think that's what his goal was he was a businessman. This was his corporation. He used them for his purposes.
I was involved in a small way in some Way Prod events. VP totally had to be in charge. It was disgusting. It was his way or the highway. I won't go into details.
And yes the ministry for the most part sucked the life out of it's people including the musicians. I used to love writing songs but couldn't do it for years even after I left.
Fortunately I have seen some of the "love of life" I used to have come back, thanks to many of you here and thanks to God for just blessing me now that I'm free from "twi"s grip.
In fact last year I started writing again and next month I'm coming out with a CD. I have been inspired by my love for sailing and boating to write some fun music for that genre. We'll see where is goes.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
rascal
Way to go Polar Bear!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Thomas Loy Bumgarner
VPW did not understand that with the arts you had to practice your craft daily, including musical literature. To abstain from your musical calling/talents given by God, you need to work/pratice/reherse daily, not stop/quit practicing and be brainwashed to quote scripture from memory like a parrot, using retemories like Godly magical spells to frighten Satan away. That's witchcraft when scripture/Bible is abused. Even Satan can quote scripture accurately/correctly, then twist its meaning. As I said before, I don't know if Victor took piano or band in school, or if he took classes on hymnody and worship/liturgy in college or seminary, or sang in choirs(outside of children's).
Link to comment
Share on other sites
potato
there's the keyword: "hobby". if you were doing something that you didn't make money at, it was a hobby, not a calling, and you should drop it. that made even getting started as a professional artist really hard as a college kid, because you don't get paid as you go. you work your butt off as an investment hoping you'll be able to support yourself in the future. to twi, this is unacceptable because there's no ABS from it. the pressure to create using only certain themes and on demand was also overwhelming and killed my drive to create. the pressure was on artists of all kinds.
I quit drawing and painting for years because my life was under such a microscope. finally, this year and after lots of therapy, I'm getting back what I once had, and I find I still have the potential to make a living as an artist.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
polar bear
You can start with mr. potato head.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
excathedra
very sad all the beauty squelched
Link to comment
Share on other sites
hiway29
I got into the way while in college studying art, then struggled for years with what to do with it. Any time spent drawing, painting, anything, was time not spent in classes, witnessing, reading the Bible, or most importantly LOOKING like you were doing something 'profitable'. Nothing was less important than my personal career and life goals.
That I was able to pull it together after I got out, and actually make a career out of art after years of neglect, seems like the biggest miracle of all.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
TheHighWay
I spent three years in-residence (one at Emporia in the College Division, and two at HQ in the Corps). Each year we were told to "set aside" whatever it was that we were good at: music, art, whatever... to put aside our own egos and focus primarily on the Word. And most of us obeyed, thinking this was our chance to really FOCUS on God. To learn to better rely on HIM and not ourselves. --- No question, twi was very, very good at stripping away what made each of us UNIQUE individuals and converting us into generic, mind-numbed twibots.
As for WayProd, I wasn't involved until the 80s and beyond, when the control was already firmly in place. I have no knowledge of what happened in the early days but I can't help but wonder if Ted's experience was different from so many other peoples' because Ted was, well, TED. He was talented and spiritual and Vic knew it. I think he knew he absolutely couldn't get away with ever treating Ted the way he got away with treating other folks. So he didn't do it. Vic was nothing if not a chameleon! And in my experience, bullies usually know who they can and cannot mess with.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
masterherbalist
Thanks for sharing that any art was set aside. Too bad.
Yes, I was a part of a major recording act. There was an attempt to potentially capitalize on the celebrity and all, but there was too much focus on the NFL players and politicians.
I agree that Ted may have been treated differently, well, because he was Ted. At least that was my perception.
My point being that the Hdqrtrs Way Productions was supposted to be carried in through the limbs and into the twigs. But, unfortunately it was my experience that the arts weren't encouraged for whatever reason. And when those of us who made a living on the road were gone from attending our "home" twig, I found I was questioned as to why I didn't seek out a twig in the area I traveled. The chasm between say, the Rolling Stones and Joyful Noise lifestyles was just too wide. At least it was taught that way. Working on the road made my own personal time with the Great Spirit even more valuable. But in some Way legalism, without fellowshipping and sacrificing my art to show my love for God, I was somehow coming up short.
I play everyday. Sing, write. Hang out with my heathen (non-way-green-card grads) friends. Continue to walk with my Heavenly Father. Having a blast.
My children include Les Paul, Leo Fender, Taylor(s), Takamine, Martin. Madonna may go to foreign countries to adopt children, but I travel hither and thither to find my new family members.
Masterherbalist
Link to comment
Share on other sites
rascal
Ted also wasn`t a kid either, I doubt that he would have put up with what ol vp was dishing out to everyone else. I met him for a weekend once, I was in charge if showing the visiting dignitary around...etc.....he stayed in our home...and have to say that he was a gentleman.
I also think that VPW attempted to surround himself with successful people to add an air of legitimacy to himself and his organization.
Ex 10 said vpw knew whom, he could get away with stuff and whom he couldn`t. There were people that he never showed his true side to.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
TOMMYZ
This weekend I got together and played with a Christian friend in the neighborhood (who's never heard of TWI ) and it was great to be able to play my songs without worrying about not fitting the "productions" mold. We're going to get together again and try out new songs on each other and it's the sort of environment I wish my "believer band" had.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Linda Z
TommyZ, that's really great news. I'm glad you found someone to play your music with, without all the interference!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
excathedra
happy for you tz
Link to comment
Share on other sites
TOMMYZ
Since we're on this topic I thought I'd bump this one up.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Keith
If you are going to lead people to God and encourage them with music it has to have heart in it. Not just God's heart, but your heart. What I saw at the end of my 2nd stay with TWI was dead music. It was perfect, every note was right, dynamics were good, mix was good. But there was no energy or heart to the music. It sounded like it was all performed by studio musicians, who hated the music they were playing but needed the money. So they just didn't put any heart to it.
I can understand a minister nixing a song for service if he had a specific need for songs about specific subject but otherwise....
Currently I play guitar for our churches praise and worship. I love it. Yes the minister controls it, but then he is also the Rhythm guitarist and his wife plays keyboards, very well I might add.) But he give me a lot of leway in what I try to add. Closing our eys while we play, only becomes hard because I don't know the songs by heart and I'm reading music. Lots of improv regarding what we are doing, I never know if we are going to play the song as rehersed or rearrange the order while playing. When we do, it's almost always awsome.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
chockfull
I'm glad this thread surfaced again - so much awesomeness. The only possible thing that could possibly be added to it is a little more cowbell:
http://is.gd/cyDPI
And to dedicated it to Skip Mesquite.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.