So, you don't think someone can fake speaking in tongues? Even Wierwille said in The Way Living in Love that he faked it when some people tried to lead him into it (claims he spoke in Greek and then Hebrew). What prevents a demon mimicking a language that we don't understand? Do you think that every class instructor was qualified enough to know if a tongue was genuine or fake?
There have been others who have claimed they faked speaking in tongues while in TWI and it went undetected for years.
I also think it rather sad that you come to a site like this and then state that as far as your concerned someone has no credibility because they claim they did not receive the new birth in TWI. Frankly, I find it hard to believe when someone tells me they were led into the new birth as a result of TWI teaching. Yet, I don't bring their credibility into question. This is an arrogant attitude on your part.
I didn't fake it. :) I did SIT. I even SIT before the class while reading RTHST. I simply don't believe that SIT is evidence of the new birth. As Waysider and others have pointed out, pagan cultures have SIT for years. I don't even need to know that, scripture points out that in the Corinthian church they had a counterfeit. That is the point Paul was making when he said we can receive another spirit. Seriously, I believe we were actually rejecting the Holy Spirit in TWI not receiving it.
But, the people in TWI are not the enemy. Satan is.
The sad joke is...VP was not even a good false teacher. Yet, many good Christians were caught up in TWI, especially early on.....VP co-opted people from the Jesus movement, but chances are good if one was not a Christian going into TWI, one did not become one as a result of being there. I agree, I find that hard to believe too. I was not a Christian going in.
johniam, you really should pray to find a nice little bible based church and let a real Pastor help you, I don't think there is or will be much laughter in heaven about TWI.
an arrogant superiority to our lowly mortals *small* dose of morals, etc., etc..?
da word of vic, properly applied, will wipe you clean..
Essence of the soap box is to keep John from derailing other threads with his butterfly mind that refuses to focus on the thread in hand.
I for one am much more interested to read John's views on this thread than be so annoyed by his derailing activities on other threads that I want to tie him to a chair and make him write "I will pay attention" 1000 times.
How he chooses to use his soap box is up to him. Certainly a very wide range of VP-related topics as well as other topics, have come up. Carry on here, John!
I'd rather have a "butterfly mind" than a caterpillar mind.
quote: I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this lately but VP wasn't really a "Dr.".
There was a poster here in the past who found it amusing that the most angry bitter posters here were the biggest buttkissers when they were in twi. Shoe fit?
I'd rather have a "butterfly mind" than a caterpillar mind.
quote: I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this lately but VP wasn't really a "Dr.".
There was a poster here in the past who found it amusing that the most angry bitter posters here were the biggest buttkissers when they were in twi. Shoe fit?
Well, let's see.
1. Not angry
2. Not bitter
3. Definitely not a "buttkisser"
Nope. Shoe doesn't fit.
Oh, by the way, VP wasn't really a "Dr.", but he played one on stage.
i don't think it's amusing - just really sad - when vp defenders get riled up and project their own frustrations onto others.
I agree. I was really laughing at myself, for the most part, because people who knew me during my TWI years would probably tell you that it was my LACK of buttkissing skills that got me in the most trouble.
quote: I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this lately but VP wasn't really a "Dr.".
There was a poster here in the past who found it amusing that the most angry bitter posters here were the biggest buttkissers when they were in twi. Shoe fit?
what are you really trying to say here? There are too many missing steps in your "argument"
is it..
1. Somebody claims that da vicster was not *really* a *doctor*.
plus an anecdote of what some long gone poster:
2. Somebody once says that the most angry, bitter posters were the biggest but kissers in twi..
so lets just look at the first step. Are you saying that because Waysider mentions the fact that vic was not really a *doctor* AND some undocumented posters claim of bitterness makes Waysider among the most bitter, biggest foot-kissers in twi?
Honestly.. I don't see how statement 1) combined with practically ANYTHING implies your (implied?) conclusion..
in other words, I can't seem to find a single correct step in your "argument(?)". Well, your first quote was accurate.
Most bitter? Maybe that assumption is what got you in trouble to begin with..
people who knew me during my TWI years would probably tell you that it was my LACK of buttkissing skills that got me in the most trouble.
Same here, Waysider, same here.
SoCrates
quote: I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this lately but VP wasn't really a "Dr.".
There was a poster here in the past who found it amusing that the most angry bitter posters here were the biggest buttkissers when they were in twi. Shoe fit?
Let's look at the other side. Even if what you say is true, Johniam, does someone's bitterness mean that a fact is not a fact?
and this is the next "argument" I can see coming..
"well. admittedly, he only had a master's degree in homiletics, and only an "honorary" doctorate degree. What difference does that make? That doesn't make him a bad man or anything.. why do you insist on being such a bitter, twi *leader's* rear kissing fool ?"
There was a poster here in the past who found it amusing that the most angry bitter posters here were the biggest buttkissers when they were in twi. Shoe fit?
The shoe that fits here is called ad hominem size 13, and you're wearing it.
And actually, as far as the validity of the claim there, it's pretty far off base. The biggest buttkissers in TWI are those courting favor. In other words, those who hold the highest positions kiss the most bootie, except for the female Pope figure at the top today, or Okus Doofus or the Veepster in the past. In fact, it would be a really accurate claim to say that one could make a pretty good career in TWI out of smooching the bootie of the Pres. Many have done that, and continue to do that.
….and taking this shoe discussion a step further…..
A guilty foot needs no shoe salesman
When a reincarnated man found the shoes he wore in a previous life did not fit, he exclaimed "my gosh, I must be born again of the wrong feet!"
If Jesus were a shoemaker: "I will, be thou heeled".
"Stoned Sole Picnic" – a late 60s tune by the Size 5 Dimensions. It's about a couple of hippies traipsing barefoot through a marijuana patch on their way to having lunch in the forest.
TV Ad: Does your nose run and your feet smell? Then you're built upside down. But despair no longer! Order the Invert-A-Bod today and we'll have you standing on your head in no time. Call now, operators are standing by.
I for one am much more interested to read John's views on this thread than be so annoyed by his derailing activities on other threads that I want to tie him to a chair and make him write "I will pay attention" 1000 times.
Wow! How can I write anything if I'm tied to a chair?LOL. A few of my elementary school teachers yelled at me to "listen and pay attention". Don't feel bad; it didn't work for them, either. Never had to write anything, but I remember once infuriating my first grade teacher. I was looking out the window during class and she asks the whole class a question, then abruptly says "John, what's the answer" hoping to put me on the spot. I looked at her, gave the answer, then immediately resumed looking out the window. She must've thought I was a debbil child.
The ironic thing is, I had issues with authority figures in general for most of my youth. Nothing really serious, but if I didn't like a teacher I would find some way to disrespect him/her. Got sent to the principal's office or suspended from school a lot. You'd think a group like twi would have REALLY pushed my buttons big time, but I learned how to respect authority from them better than anywhere else. Weird.
quote: i don't think it's amusing - just really sad - when vp defenders get riled up and project their own frustrations onto others.
What? ME projecting my frustrations????? You guys have (some of you) been doing that to me for 3 months.
Socks: I guess with my butterfly mind and all that I can derail my own thread a bit. I just don't want to start or interrupt another thread for this, but about a month ago I found out that you wrote that Joyful Noise song 'Brand new way'. IMO the version of that song that was on the 'Heartbeat' recording was much better than the one on the original JN album. It was peppier. Mike Wheeler's steel guitar provided needed spice. But I played in a STL area ministry band called Blessed Hope and we did that song, but we added some theatre to it. You're going to love this. We began by doing that routine from the TV show 'Hee Haw' where they sing "Glooom, despair, and agony on me (AUGHHHH). Deep, dark, depression, excessive misery (WAWWWWW)" and so forth. Right after that a guy in the band would say "Folks, that was what MY life was like until I accepted the Lord Jesus Christ. Cause NOW I have a BRAND NEW WAY!" Then we'd go into the song. Got good response. OK, I'm done blessing your life for today.
I for one am much more interested to read John's views on this thread than be so annoyed by his derailing activities on other threads that I want to tie him to a chair and make him write "I will pay attention" 1000 times.
Wow! How can I write anything if I'm tied to a chair?LOL. A few of my elementary school teachers yelled at me to "listen and pay attention". Don't feel bad; it didn't work for them, either. Never had to write anything, but I remember once infuriating my first grade teacher. I was looking out the window during class and she asks the whole class a question, then abruptly says "John, what's the answer" hoping to put me on the spot. I looked at her, gave the answer, then immediately resumed looking out the window. She must've thought I was a debbil child.
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waysider
"I could use the same argument when sex abuse victims tell their stories. I could say that in India it's still possible for a husband to find his wife not pleasing and have her burned. That twi sex ab
WordWolf
Sounds like you have a LOT of different "they's". Are "they" all one big "they", or are there many independent "theys" that lack specific names? "They" is INCREDIBLY vague- and thus INCREDIBLY CONV
waysider
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geisha779
I didn't fake it. :) I did SIT. I even SIT before the class while reading RTHST. I simply don't believe that SIT is evidence of the new birth. As Waysider and others have pointed out, pagan cultures have SIT for years. I don't even need to know that, scripture points out that in the Corinthian church they had a counterfeit. That is the point Paul was making when he said we can receive another spirit. Seriously, I believe we were actually rejecting the Holy Spirit in TWI not receiving it.
But, the people in TWI are not the enemy. Satan is.
The sad joke is...VP was not even a good false teacher. Yet, many good Christians were caught up in TWI, especially early on.....VP co-opted people from the Jesus movement, but chances are good if one was not a Christian going into TWI, one did not become one as a result of being there. I agree, I find that hard to believe too. I was not a Christian going in.
johniam, you really should pray to find a nice little bible based church and let a real Pastor help you, I don't think there is or will be much laughter in heaven about TWI.
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Broken Arrow
Do you think that Dr. Pepper was really a doctor? What about Dr. Seuss?
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waysider
I'm not sure----but wouldn't you like to be a Pepper, too?
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geisha779
He was a genius!
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johniam
Dr. Ruth, anyone?
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Bolshevik
Baby Ruth
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T-Bone
this is all i could think of right off the bat
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Twinky
Essence of the soap box is to keep John from derailing other threads with his butterfly mind that refuses to focus on the thread in hand.
I for one am much more interested to read John's views on this thread than be so annoyed by his derailing activities on other threads that I want to tie him to a chair and make him write "I will pay attention" 1000 times.
How he chooses to use his soap box is up to him. Certainly a very wide range of VP-related topics as well as other topics, have come up. Carry on here, John!
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johniam
I'd rather have a "butterfly mind" than a caterpillar mind.
quote: I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this lately but VP wasn't really a "Dr.".
There was a poster here in the past who found it amusing that the most angry bitter posters here were the biggest buttkissers when they were in twi. Shoe fit?
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waysider
Well, let's see.
1. Not angry
2. Not bitter
3. Definitely not a "buttkisser"
Nope. Shoe doesn't fit.
Oh, by the way, VP wasn't really a "Dr.", but he played one on stage.
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T-Bone
i don't think it's amusing - just really sad - when vp defenders get riled up and project their own frustrations onto others.
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waysider
I agree. I was really laughing at myself, for the most part, because people who knew me during my TWI years would probably tell you that it was my LACK of buttkissing skills that got me in the most trouble.
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Ham
what are you really trying to say here? There are too many missing steps in your "argument"
is it..
1. Somebody claims that da vicster was not *really* a *doctor*.
plus an anecdote of what some long gone poster:
2. Somebody once says that the most angry, bitter posters were the biggest but kissers in twi..
so lets just look at the first step. Are you saying that because Waysider mentions the fact that vic was not really a *doctor* AND some undocumented posters claim of bitterness makes Waysider among the most bitter, biggest foot-kissers in twi?
Honestly.. I don't see how statement 1) combined with practically ANYTHING implies your (implied?) conclusion..
in other words, I can't seem to find a single correct step in your "argument(?)". Well, your first quote was accurate.
Most bitter? Maybe that assumption is what got you in trouble to begin with..
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So_crates
Same here, Waysider, same here.
SoCrates
Let's look at the other side. Even if what you say is true, Johniam, does someone's bitterness mean that a fact is not a fact?
SoCrates
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Ham
It's just another *subtle* method of "silencing the critics".
The "exchange" goes something like this:
"he wasn't really doctor, don't you know.."
"you've just a bitter, dedicated butt kisser."
"the vicster was an arrogant, egotistical bastard."
"well, someone who would say that is a bitter, former adamant twi leader butt kisser. Does the shoe fit?"
"the victoid was guilty of adultery, rape, intellectual dishonesty.."
"well. Only a butt kisser, among the most bitter, would say something like that.."
in other words, the facts make absolutely no difference here..
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OldSkool
Do they ever with someone waybrained as can be?
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Ham
and this is the next "argument" I can see coming..
"well. admittedly, he only had a master's degree in homiletics, and only an "honorary" doctorate degree. What difference does that make? That doesn't make him a bad man or anything.. why do you insist on being such a bitter, twi *leader's* rear kissing fool ?"
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chockfull
The shoe that fits here is called ad hominem size 13, and you're wearing it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem
And actually, as far as the validity of the claim there, it's pretty far off base. The biggest buttkissers in TWI are those courting favor. In other words, those who hold the highest positions kiss the most bootie, except for the female Pope figure at the top today, or Okus Doofus or the Veepster in the past. In fact, it would be a really accurate claim to say that one could make a pretty good career in TWI out of smooching the bootie of the Pres. Many have done that, and continue to do that.
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T-Bone
….and taking this shoe discussion a step further…..
A guilty foot needs no shoe salesman
When a reincarnated man found the shoes he wore in a previous life did not fit, he exclaimed "my gosh, I must be born again of the wrong feet!"
If Jesus were a shoemaker: "I will, be thou heeled".
"Stoned Sole Picnic" – a late 60s tune by the Size 5 Dimensions. It's about a couple of hippies traipsing barefoot through a marijuana patch on their way to having lunch in the forest.
TV Ad: Does your nose run and your feet smell? Then you're built upside down. But despair no longer! Order the Invert-A-Bod today and we'll have you standing on your head in no time. Call now, operators are standing by.
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So_crates
Putting the shoe on the other foot:
SoCrates
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johniam
quote:
I for one am much more interested to read John's views on this thread than be so annoyed by his derailing activities on other threads that I want to tie him to a chair and make him write "I will pay attention" 1000 times.
Wow! How can I write anything if I'm tied to a chair?LOL. A few of my elementary school teachers yelled at me to "listen and pay attention". Don't feel bad; it didn't work for them, either. Never had to write anything, but I remember once infuriating my first grade teacher. I was looking out the window during class and she asks the whole class a question, then abruptly says "John, what's the answer" hoping to put me on the spot. I looked at her, gave the answer, then immediately resumed looking out the window. She must've thought I was a debbil child.
The ironic thing is, I had issues with authority figures in general for most of my youth. Nothing really serious, but if I didn't like a teacher I would find some way to disrespect him/her. Got sent to the principal's office or suspended from school a lot. You'd think a group like twi would have REALLY pushed my buttons big time, but I learned how to respect authority from them better than anywhere else. Weird.
quote: i don't think it's amusing - just really sad - when vp defenders get riled up and project their own frustrations onto others.
What? ME projecting my frustrations????? You guys have (some of you) been doing that to me for 3 months.
Socks: I guess with my butterfly mind and all that I can derail my own thread a bit. I just don't want to start or interrupt another thread for this, but about a month ago I found out that you wrote that Joyful Noise song 'Brand new way'. IMO the version of that song that was on the 'Heartbeat' recording was much better than the one on the original JN album. It was peppier. Mike Wheeler's steel guitar provided needed spice. But I played in a STL area ministry band called Blessed Hope and we did that song, but we added some theatre to it. You're going to love this. We began by doing that routine from the TV show 'Hee Haw' where they sing "Glooom, despair, and agony on me (AUGHHHH). Deep, dark, depression, excessive misery (WAWWWWW)" and so forth. Right after that a guy in the band would say "Folks, that was what MY life was like until I accepted the Lord Jesus Christ. Cause NOW I have a BRAND NEW WAY!" Then we'd go into the song. Got good response. OK, I'm done blessing your life for today.
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T-Bone
a guilty foot needs no shoe salesman -- oh, never mind....
i never specifically mentioned you.....but i take your response as an admission of being a vp defender.
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Twinky
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Twinky
John, "would you be blessed" to bring your thoughts on Excie's thread "Asking your Opinion" onto this thread?
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