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10 hours ago, Taxidev said:

Yes, that's true.  Several of them have made that clear.  But I know quite a few people who have never been in any leadership position at all in TWI that feel the same way.

While I had no insight into any of those things that took place in the past, I did find early on some flaws in what VPW propounded, actual contradictions.  When I raised those points they were dismissed with just a repetition of what was in his books.  That should have been the red flag for me to walk away, but having never experienced a cult, and still appreciative of the teachings in my local twig, I kept on.  But it was already obvious to me that I did NOT want to go in the corps.

My grandmother used to call me thickheaded.  I cannot refute that.  I still have high hopes for them.  What may seem to be coming to their defense is only my expression of those high hopes.  I am more willing than most to give people time and space to change.

But I am convinced of everything you all have shared with me about these folks, and have personally seen only an inkling of it in action - the response to an email to them.  And that response was disappointing.  So, no, I have no dog in the fight, I will walk away from them when I am convinced they are false.

1) based on your own words, even in the same sentence, you indeed have experienced a cult.

2) Grandmothers (and grandfathers) can be very insightful. But if she didn't explain to you how that thickheadedness can cause intellectual dishonesty, she didn't take it far enough.

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On 6/3/2018 at 10:58 AM, Taxidev said:

This could very well be true about them.  But, weren't we all broken wineskins at one time?

While we have all been in denial at one point or another, only Moses as a baby actually floated down de Nile in a basket.

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On 6/3/2018 at 11:58 AM, Taxidev said:

This could very well be true about them.  But, weren't we all broken wineskins at one time?

I am also interested to see their progress, and I will.  Consider me naive, I understand, but I am willing to give them a chance.  Naive, maybe, but I'm not a fool - I have none of them on a pedestal, especially after all that DWBH shared about his personal experiences with them, for which I am incredibly grateful.  He understandably doesn't trust them one bit, and I believe his assessment of them is correct, but I also believe they have the ability to turn around completely.

It's been about a year already that I have been watching them.  Based on all the crap they have lived, I am willing to give them more time.

Yes I WAS a broken wineskin - but have moved on from that...allow me to explain:

I think a lot of folks have figured out that you can’t fix stupid... and there’s no sense in repairing broken wineskins...when I say I moved on - it’s called a learning curve - folks develop skills (like critical thinking ) by learning from their mistakes...

...but those who left TWI and still have a wierwille-centric basis for doctrine and practice are stuck in a vicious circle...they may claim it’s improved - restored - revived - whatever ,like some supposedly learning curve process ...but follow the sequence - the reciprocal cause and effect of using wierwille’s “wine” and patched up wineskins (cultic mindset) and it will eventually aggravate and intensify their blindness, callousness and egotism...

...from what you’ve already shared about them I think it really illustrates Jesus’ words to a T: you should put NEW wine in NEW wineskins...in other words, start from scratch! New wine is still fermenting and so the expansion of “life” will burst an old hardened and stiff wine skin. I guess putting old wine into old wineskins wouldn’t pose as much a risk - you just keep patching up any leaks that may develop.

Folks might want to figure out for themselves the application of Jesus’ words...for me it was to stop following (or being influenced by) any wierwille-associated doctrine and practice - be it books, teachings, fellowships, and rooting out that subtle mindset too (and really that part is an ongoing process - like peeling an onion...you keep digging deeper and deeper to remove one layer and then discover another layer beneath that... your critical thinking skills do get better over time - like therapy for atrophied muscles)...for me, putting the NEW wine in a NEW wineskin means taking off the wierwille-colored glasses and reading the Bible with an open mind and trying to gather the natural sense of scripture.

 

Edited by T-Bone
Clarity
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1 hour ago, T-Bone said:

Yes I WAS a broken wineskin - but have moved on from that...

I am genuinely thrilled for you.  Consider yourself toasted to, with beer or wine, whichever you prefer.

 

1 hour ago, T-Bone said:

the reciprocal cause and effect of using wierwille’s “wine” and patched up wineskins (cultic mindset) and it will eventually aggravate and intensify their blindness, callousness and egotism...

As chockful pointed out in here , "They have accepted no learning centers outside of TWI based doctrine.  They interact with no other Biblical scholars.  They take input from no other Christians, except those that agree to go to their fellowships."  Seems you are both in agreement, and it makes perfect sense to me.

As I responded to him, I hadn't even considered that until moments ago.  The disappointments are beginning to accumulate.

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3 hours ago, Taxidev said:

 

...As chockful pointed out in here , "They have accepted no learning centers outside of TWI based doctrine.  They interact with no other Biblical scholars.  They take input from no other Christians, except those that agree to go to their fellowships."  Seems you are both in agreement, and it makes perfect sense to me.

As I responded to him, I hadn't even considered that until moments ago.  The disappointments are beginning to accumulate.

Hey Taxidev, the fact that disappointments are mounting up is a good sign - so give yourself a lot more credit in the critical thinking department ...after mulling over your post I quoted ( and I was really electrified by your reference to broken wineskins ) I was not addressing anyone in particular - just wanted to use your expression as a springboard for criticizing offshoots of wierwille. So carry on :beer:

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3 minutes ago, T-Bone said:

So carry on :beer:

Beer it is, then!

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15 hours ago, chockfull said:

While we have all been in denial at one point or another, only Moses as a baby actually floated down de Nile in a basket.

Chock, great post!!  LMAO!!!

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10 hours ago, T-Bone said:

Yes I WAS a broken wineskin - but have moved on from that...allow me to explain:

I think a lot of folks have figured out that you can’t fix stupid... and there’s no sense in repairing broken wineskins...when I say I moved on - it’s called a learning curve - folks develop skills (like critical thinking ) by learning from their mistakes...

...but those who left TWI and still have a wierwille-centric basis for doctrine and practice are stuck in a vicious circle...they may claim it’s improved - restored - revived - whatever ,like some supposedly learning curve process ...but follow the sequence - the reciprocal cause and effect of using wierwille’s “wine” and patched up wineskins (cultic mindset) and it will eventually aggravate and intensify their blindness, callousness and egotism...

...from what you’ve already shared about them I think it really illustrates Jesus’ words to a T: you should put NEW wine in NEW wineskins...in other words, start from scratch! New wine is still fermenting and so the expansion of “life” will burst an old hardened and stiff wine skin. I guess putting old wine into old wineskins wouldn’t pose as much a risk - you just keep patching up any leaks that may develop.

Folks might want to figure out for themselves the application of Jesus’ words...for me it was to stop following (or being influenced by) any wierwille-associated doctrine and practice - be it books, teachings, fellowships, and rooting out that subtle mindset too (and really that part is an ongoing process - like peeling an onion...you keep digging deeper and deeper to remove one layer and then discover another layer beneath that... your critical thinking skills do get better over time - like therapy for atrophied muscles)...for me, putting the NEW wine in a NEW wineskin means taking off the wierwille-colored glasses and reading the Bible with an open mind and trying to gather the natural sense of scripture.

 

T-Bone, :eusa_clap:

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9 hours ago, Taxidev said:

I am genuinely thrilled for you.  Consider yourself toasted to, with beer or wine, whichever you prefer.

 

As chockful pointed out in here , "They have accepted no learning centers outside of TWI based doctrine.  They interact with no other Biblical scholars.  They take input from no other Christians, except those that agree to go to their fellowships."  Seems you are both in agreement, and it makes perfect sense to me.

As I responded to him, I hadn't even considered that until moments ago.  The disappointments are beginning to accumulate.

Taxi, good for you!!  I think you are on "the right path."  Keep going, Honey!  I think you might be recovering from your TWI mindset.

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I watched the entire R&R video. A huge joke. Why were they laughing , I didnt hear anything that was funny. They were and are part of the problem. Just a bunch of ego heads wanting to be in charge and imo wanting to have direct access to ALL the Ways money. They are getting old(so I'm I ) and are probably looking for a huge nest egg. They can go spit and wallow in their crap. This verse describes them > 2nd Peter 2:1  But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. <  And that is what they are.
 

Edited by shiftthis

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