A random thought this morning, well not so random as I carefully parted the pages of a map that had got wet.
Anybody else remember carefully turning over one page of a new bible that was to be given to some leadership person? I remember once in rez that we all got to turn a few pages of a brand-new ultra-thin page bible, so that the pages would be easier for the intended paragon of ability to open when he came to read the bible (big assumption there, I'm thinking!). To turn these pages was considered a privilege for the turners, and a blessing for the recipient.
Yeah, right.
Wow, sounds lile so much of the bs i often was exposed to while at hq and gunnison. All these special nuances of blessings bestowed on leadership. When i was leadership i hated the attention but had to accept people makimg a big deal of nothing. As if i was some special component of their salvation. Truth is i was just like everyone else, stumbling through life and human frailty, trying to make things do what they do. Twinky, i think id like to turn my own pages....lol
A random thought this morning, well not so random as I carefully parted the pages of a map that had got wet.
Anybody else remember carefully turning over one page of a new bible that was to be given to some leadership person? I remember once in rez that we all got to turn a few pages of a brand-new ultra-thin page bible, so that the pages would be easier for the intended paragon of ability to open when he came to read the bible (big assumption there, I'm thinking!). To turn these pages was considered a privilege for the turners, and a blessing for the recipient.
Yeah, right.
Wow – I never heard of that…how exciting - - - not! ...well…I never turned a page for any of those knuckleheads…and don’t know if I could say I turned over a new leaf since I left The Way Tree...I ain't a leaf any more…let’s just say my life has turned the corner since I left TWI.
A random thought this morning, well not so random as I carefully parted the pages of a map that had got wet.
Anybody else remember carefully turning over one page of a new bible that was to be given to some leadership person? I remember once in rez that we all got to turn a few pages of a brand-new ultra-thin page bible, so that the pages would be easier for the intended paragon of ability to open when he came to read the bible (big assumption there, I'm thinking!). To turn these pages was considered a privilege for the turners, and a blessing for the recipient.
Yeah, right.
Just an extension of the bull$hit and bass-ackward perspective that the purpose of the leaves on the tree was to serve the "leaders." Though Wierwillie must have read in the bible about Jesus washing the feet of those to whom he ministered, he didn't "get it."
Wow, such excitement I missed by not being in the corps, and not being at HQ.
Taxi, being a WOW was also exciting. I loved starving because I couldn't afford to buy food. Oh yeah, being a WOW was so exciting, I never did it again. Once was more than enough for me. At least the Navy fed me.
Just an extension of the bull$hit and bass-ackward perspective that the purpose of the leaves on the tree was to serve the "leaders." Though Wierwillie must have read in the bible about Jesus washing the feet of those to whom he ministered, he didn't "get it."
I don't remember turning pages for anyone except my self ... But I remember the inane thing we got reamed for first day in corpse. Loy yelled because we carried tables wrong and more yelling from corpse coordinator for not have every single thing labeled with our names. I had to write my name on every ball point pen. Found one about a year ago in my stuff that still had my name on it.
Reminds me of the broken mints that had to be placed at the podium.
Ever hear what that was about? vpw made some offhand comment about how he broke the breath-mints he was using at the podium. So, someone decided that what vpw wanted was broken mints, so broken mints started showing up all over the place for him. Then he mentioned at one podium that all he could find were these little fragments. Someone replied that they were getting him the broken breath-mints like he used. "I mean I break them IN MY MOUTH!" vpw didn't want someone to pre-break his breath-mints. He was hiding breath heavy with alcohol and cigarettes, so he took a breath-mint in his mouth and bit it in half, releasing all the mintiness in a few seconds rather than slowly. (That's what you do to hide a really extreme reek.)
But since he castigated people who asked him ANY clarifications (as if it was THEIR faults if HE communicated vaguely), and he put forth that his whims and "suggestions" should be taken as "commands", people were stuck trying to read his mind and determine his intent, then try to carry it out.
Btw, in case anyone didn't see my rant on the thread about Dan G in the Offshoots forum, here's the link.
Essentially, it was a quick work up on the question Taxidev raised suggesting he hadn't found anywhere in the bible that suggested Paul believed that when he was being financial supported by believers, he (Paul) believed he should be accountable, besides to God, to those believers also. In part,
Quote
(from 2 Corinthians 1) "Now this is our boast: Our consciencetestifies thatwe have conducted ourselves in the world, and especially in our relations with you, with integrity[b]and godly sincerity." (emphasis mine)
Just curious, does it say ANYWHERE in those verses that the believers were responsible to give blowjobs on demand, provide bottles of Drambuie wherever Paul went, or make exhaustive rituals of breaking in the pages of a new bible?
I think not. BUT... if one does read any of that in those verses, it would be for a specific "social contract" providing that Paul or any other of the ministers provide comfort which produces patient endurance in the believers. That would be in the category of "they shall know them by their fruit." If either Dan G or the R&R RR engineers aren't demonstrating anything tangible along those lines, then they don't deserve to collect dime one from the believers.
42 Jesus called them together and said,“You know that those who are regarded as rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their high officials exercise authority over them.43 Not so with you. Instead, whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant,44 and whoever wants to be first must be slave of all.45 For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve,and to give his life as a ransom for many.”
VeePee taught "his" corpse to be slaves... unfortunately, slaves to him, not slaves to believers they wished to minister to...
But since he castigated people who asked him ANY clarifications (as if it was THEIR faults if HE communicated vaguely), and he put forth that his whims and "suggestions" should be taken as "commands", people were stuck trying to read his mind and determine his intent, then try to carry it out.
Sounds like a ruthless form of manipulation for control. The more I learn about this guy the more I dislike him. I never met him, only saw one video class of him. What a great actor!
This wasn't under VPW's reign. This was under LCM's reign. I can't remember if the Bible was for him, but probably so. Maybe a gift to commemorate the filming of the live Advanced Class? Or maybe someone, and some event, quite different.
Most of you folk posting here are from the VPW era. Please don't bring everything back to that; those who suffered under LCM suffered a different reign of terror and manipulation. Servitude with a different flavor. Much worse, I think.
I look back now and think, how could I ever have got so sucked into that state of mind? But it was that slow turn of the screw, the "short sharp shock" when we started in rez (with the lying promise of relaxation later) and the slow laying on of further burdens. Anybody else here from being in rez in the post-fog years? No doubt leadership of the time had their own set of burdens and pressures; Skyrider has written of some of these.
Sounds like a ruthless form of manipulation for control. The more I learn about this guy the more I dislike him. I never met him, only saw one video class of him. What a great actor!
Taxi, DWBH knew him personally, and has discussed what he was like as a person. Not a godly man at all; he actually was a sleazy, POS. I personally heard VPW teach live several times, and throught he was boring as S--t. I heard DWBH, teach live several times, and throught he was great! IMO, DWBH loved to teach, and really believed in what he taught. I think VPW knew he was a fraud, and knew he really didn't believe in what he taught. When VPW died in May of 1885, I remember thinking, "no great loss. I wonder what I am going to have for dinner?" VPW's death didn't upset me in the least. I liked Mrs. W far more than I liked VPW.
That's probably the saddest commentary anyone could make.
Taxi, excuse me! I meant to say in May of 1985. You are so right; it was sad that VPW's death meant so little to me. But, I wasn't going to cry fake tears, for a person, that I had never met. I throught his teachings, and classes were boring! Even his "live" teachings were boring to me. And his accent! It really got on my nerves! I throught Mrs. W was a far better teacher, and a much more intresting person. And she had a soft, sweet voice.
Absolutely. I felt the same when Craig announced his stepping down. I walked away from the phone hookup and thought, "Oh, well". That was it. He's just a guy, and I certainly didn't have him on a pedestal. Some folks around me were devastated because they DID have him on a pedestal. But what it showed me was how easy it is to get off track, just like Eve did.
But what it showed me was how easy it is to get off track, just like Eve did.
Adam was right there with her. She wasn’t alone in the deception and disobedience. He wasn’t off somewhere not knowing what was going on. It was a “team effort”.
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OldSkool
Wow, sounds lile so much of the bs i often was exposed to while at hq and gunnison. All these special nuances of blessings bestowed on leadership. When i was leadership i hated the attention but had to accept people makimg a big deal of nothing. As if i was some special component of their salvation. Truth is i was just like everyone else, stumbling through life and human frailty, trying to make things do what they do. Twinky, i think id like to turn my own pages....lol
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chockfull
I'm glad I "turned the page" on the cult that initiated this type of reeediculousness.
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outandabout
Reminds me of the broken mints that had to be placed at the podium.
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T-Bone
Wow – I never heard of that…how exciting - - - not!
...well…I never turned a page for any of those knuckleheads…and don’t know if I could say I turned over a new leaf since I left The Way Tree...I ain't a leaf any more…let’s just say my life has turned the corner since I left TWI. 
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outandabout
also reminds me of the servant ironing the newspaper for his master at Downton Abbey.
Except, come to think of it, he got wages and a roof over his head.
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Twinky
Now come on, Outie. We got $30/month and a shared room in Founders Hall, and three meals a day.
But weird. Gently turning pages, in a Bible, or which the recipient probably had at least one already.
I am not going to peruse my Corps journals to try to find out why we did this inane thing.
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Grace Valerie Claire
Chock, so am I!
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Rocky
Just an extension of the bull$hit and bass-ackward perspective that the purpose of the leaves on the tree was to serve the "leaders." Though Wierwillie must have read in the bible about Jesus washing the feet of those to whom he ministered, he didn't "get it."
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Taxidev
Wow, such excitement I missed by not being in the corps, and not being at HQ.
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Grace Valerie Claire
Taxi, being a WOW was also exciting. I loved starving because I couldn't afford to buy food. Oh yeah, being a WOW was so exciting, I never did it again. Once was more than enough for me. At least the Navy fed me.
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Rocky
Biblical roots of servant leadership
For example,
Mark 10:43 "But it shall not be so among you. But whoever would be great among you must be your servant..."
The Way International was and is a$$ backwards on this.
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penguin2
I don't remember turning pages for anyone except my self ... But I remember the inane thing we got reamed for first day in corpse. Loy yelled because we carried tables wrong and more yelling from corpse coordinator for not have every single thing labeled with our names. I had to write my name on every ball point pen. Found one about a year ago in my stuff that still had my name on it.
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WordWolf
Ever hear what that was about? vpw made some offhand comment about how he broke the breath-mints he was using at the podium. So, someone decided that what vpw wanted was broken mints, so broken mints started showing up all over the place for him. Then he mentioned at one podium that all he could find were these little fragments. Someone replied that they were getting him the broken breath-mints like he used. "I mean I break them IN MY MOUTH!" vpw didn't want someone to pre-break his breath-mints. He was hiding breath heavy with alcohol and cigarettes, so he took a breath-mint in his mouth and bit it in half, releasing all the mintiness in a few seconds rather than slowly. (That's what you do to hide a really extreme reek.)
But since he castigated people who asked him ANY clarifications (as if it was THEIR faults if HE communicated vaguely), and he put forth that his whims and "suggestions" should be taken as "commands", people were stuck trying to read his mind and determine his intent, then try to carry it out.
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Rocky
Btw, in case anyone didn't see my rant on the thread about Dan G in the Offshoots forum, here's the link.
Essentially, it was a quick work up on the question Taxidev raised suggesting he hadn't found anywhere in the bible that suggested Paul believed that when he was being financial supported by believers, he (Paul) believed he should be accountable, besides to God, to those believers also. In part,
VeePee taught "his" corpse to be slaves... unfortunately, slaves to him, not slaves to believers they wished to minister to...
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Taxidev
I echo your sentiment about my way disciple experience, and that was only 6 months.
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Taxidev
And, apparently, not slaves to Christ, either.
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Taxidev
Sounds like a ruthless form of manipulation for control. The more I learn about this guy the more I dislike him. I never met him, only saw one video class of him. What a great actor!
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Rocky
Well, Wierwillie was to take the place of the absent Christ in that formula... and look at how perversely it played out.
IOW, the way VeePee indoctrinated the way corpse to be slaves to him and twi was to teach that they were to be slaves to God and Christ.
But God doesn't require us to give up our free will (agency) to any old con man or woman.
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Twinky
This wasn't under VPW's reign. This was under LCM's reign. I can't remember if the Bible was for him, but probably so. Maybe a gift to commemorate the filming of the live Advanced Class? Or maybe someone, and some event, quite different.
Most of you folk posting here are from the VPW era. Please don't bring everything back to that; those who suffered under LCM suffered a different reign of terror and manipulation. Servitude with a different flavor. Much worse, I think.
I look back now and think, how could I ever have got so sucked into that state of mind? But it was that slow turn of the screw, the "short sharp shock" when we started in rez (with the lying promise of relaxation later) and the slow laying on of further burdens. Anybody else here from being in rez in the post-fog years? No doubt leadership of the time had their own set of burdens and pressures; Skyrider has written of some of these.
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Grace Valerie Claire
Taxi, DWBH knew him personally, and has discussed what he was like as a person. Not a godly man at all; he actually was a sleazy, POS. I personally heard VPW teach live several times, and throught he was boring as S--t. I heard DWBH, teach live several times, and throught he was great! IMO, DWBH loved to teach, and really believed in what he taught. I think VPW knew he was a fraud, and knew he really didn't believe in what he taught. When VPW died in May of 1885, I remember thinking, "no great loss. I wonder what I am going to have for dinner?" VPW's death didn't upset me in the least. I liked Mrs. W far more than I liked VPW.
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Taxidev
That's probably the saddest commentary anyone could make.
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Grace Valerie Claire
Taxi, excuse me! I meant to say in May of 1985. You are so right; it was sad that VPW's death meant so little to me. But, I wasn't going to cry fake tears, for a person, that I had never met. I throught his teachings, and classes were boring! Even his "live" teachings were boring to me. And his accent! It really got on my nerves! I throught Mrs. W was a far better teacher, and a much more intresting person. And she had a soft, sweet voice.
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Taxidev
Absolutely. I felt the same when Craig announced his stepping down. I walked away from the phone hookup and thought, "Oh, well". That was it. He's just a guy, and I certainly didn't have him on a pedestal. Some folks around me were devastated because they DID have him on a pedestal. But what it showed me was how easy it is to get off track, just like Eve did.
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JayDee
Adam was right there with her. She wasn’t alone in the deception and disobedience. He wasn’t off somewhere not knowing what was going on. It was a “team effort”.
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