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Duke Baxter

Could John Lynn be the undisputed king of Offshoot ministries?

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Lotza things kids,

Having been around during that period of Lynn 's exit and having spoken with him twice the year he skated out, John Lynn's "quitting/getting fired" from the Way Ministry was kinda self serving. It benefitted him in several ways:

- He crafted his own exit message around his personal involvement and culpability in the things that were "wrong" with the Way Inc. 
      I mention that because when he and I spoke the first time about his leaving, he didn't want to talk at all about issues I brought up to him that        I felt he had some accountability for. 
- He was able to personally attack all of the Trustees and anyone he wished without any chance of their rebuttal or responding. 
- He created and managed the environment in which he WOULD deal with anything he chose
- He was able to start teaching what was to become a long string of half-assed-theories-of-the-week ideas unchallenged, while claiming he was walking in "Doctor's Footsteps" (which he told me over the phone). And when I told him he and I both knew ANY deviation from PFAL would have "The Doctor" shoving his foot up his ass he just chuckled and said "well, we'll all know someday" and continued to blab on. 

When I last spoke to him in - 1987? - I was still formally attached to the Way Inc. via my then-current Corps assignment but I was very aware that the Way Nash's leadership structure was in rack and ruin and I had no rose-colored expectations that it was going to get better. IMO however, Lynn did no great service to anyone in "revealing" the evils of the Way Trustees that he didn't get a lot in return for. It set the stage for all his future efforts and effectively made him an heir-apparent for all the ex-Wayfers who still needed a nipple to suck on and a warm crotch to lay their head on while being taught "the Bible" again and again and again and again. And again. 

Other than a phone call in the '90's when he was traveling around with a new book to sell and a coffee can to collect money in when he taught, I have had no contact from him at all. I wouldn't get involved in any of his enterprises, listen to him talk or buy anything he was selling. I'd love to engage in any number of normal real life activities, if the opportunity fell into my lap but other than that I do pray for his health and healing. Over the years I've heard and seen a few things here and there that he's done and - maybe it's just me - but he's turned into a terrible speaker and teacher, IMO. He's not really "funny", which everyone likes to say to get you to listen...."He's just as funny as he ever was".....and I'm not hard pressed to find yet another LOL jokester. I'm sure he's about as good as anyone would be who's been pounding the book for this many years but it's been years since I was dependent on the Teaching Teat of Ex Way Teat-chers. Seriously - there's a lot of sludge out there. As long as they mean well and do their best, I'm fine with it, just don't try to tell me it's next level stuff or particularly meaninful or anything like it. 

But my Gad-a-mitey, this is ancient history. Why do I persist, and to what ends? I guess it's a way to sort through the detritus and dust and pull out the odd dime or quarter lost in the cushions. God bless 'im but if the intent is to carry on with the message of Christ and salvation to the future generations it's time to give this bullshit a rest and focus on "GOD'S WORD" instead of whether or not one of us old and breaking down former wannabe-s can still punch our old weight. 

I would say this with no equivocation however and with all the state and stature it deserves - Lynn is the Undisputed King of The Church of JAL. 

All hail the King of JAL!!

Edited by socks
Let's play a game....
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The teachings are remarkably the same as PFAL, with one difference in the "statement of un-beliefs":

9. We do not believe that “faith” is a force generated by the human mind that automatically brings either good or bad into one’s life.

 

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9. We do not believe that “faith” is a force generated by the human mind that automatically brings either good or bad into one’s life.

To me, that's a very bizarre statement, and reads like it's designed to appeal to the ex-Wayfer crowd. I talk to lots and lots of Christians of all stripe and no one is
struggling with or promoting the idea that faith is a force generated by the human mind that yada yada....

Faith is trust, and confidence in, about, towards something. "Pistis/Pistueo" in the Bible, a firm conviction, belief, a trust - 

IN SOMETHING. The bang is in the buck. 

My exposure to the teachings of VPW in and around PFAL included what certainly sounded like him teaching "believing" as some kind of tangible "thing" that would produce a result when it was at a certain level. "Build up your believing", got used a lot in that context, and the very idea of Christians as "believers" was both their belief in doctrine as well as their "believing walks", what they did with those doctrines. If you "weren't believing" it had a sense of your tank being half full - like you were convinced but not REALLY convinced, even though you may have done the actual thing that needed to be done and didn't get the "results".....because you weren't "believing"....even though you were. It was kind of like a dog chasing it's tail though and every once in awhile it bites it and stops then starts again..........meanwhile all it really amounted to was trying to saturate your thinking and resulting actions with enough of what God instructs you to do so that your "faith" will then be towards Him. It used to seem sometimes like VPW actually repudiated God's grace when he's teach people to not rely on it - when people like me were thinking "fuk, I rely on it all the time, I NEED IT!!!!"..................and I guess what I think he really meant was don't be a lazy ass and avoid doing the work you're supposed to and expect someone else to do it for you. But they're not really the same things, that's not relying on "grace"> 

The trust and confidence of pistis/pistueo has significance in the Bible because it's GOD WERE' TRUSTING IN. Pneuma hagion is HIS GIFT, TO US. 

VPW was trying to build a generation of Uber Christians, The True Believers, who knew THE TRUTH and would WALK IT like it hasn't been walked since the first century. 

In fact, many of his early protege's tanked and were mostly just successful at being good employees and mimics of him in the family business. He died of cancer, alone but for a sidekick, pushing aways all others who might have actually given a crap about him as a person. 

I'd rather not exit this temporal crust that way. 

I can say without any doubt whatsoever and complete confidence that today, the greatest cargoes of life come in over seas of grace, in the vast ocean of God's eternal Will. Two words I caught in PFAL that I hold to today are "alignment and harmony".....rather than build an egocentric prideful bucket of pig shit over MY BELIEVING and all that I DO I have found it much better to try to live each day in a harmonious peaceful relationship with my heavenly Creator and Father and put my trust there. That's always worked, and even "back in the day" I was learning not to show up to my Mental Prayer Hut with a box of my believing and demanding God do this or that or whatever.

In fact though, God did answer my prayers quite literally one day by reminding me that there's a lot of things I can "do for myself".....like just...go on. There you go. Go do it. Yep, you're fine. Go ahead. I'm with you. Yes. No - YOU CAN'T GO OVER IT AGAIN WITH ME OKAY YOU CAN BUT REALLY.....why not just go on. Do it. See? Right - okay, now do it again...yep......

Anyway, I learned some of that from Lynn too, as when I was around him and worked some with him he could be on the one hand a very nice, hard working industrious person but on the other, as kindly as I can say, something of a flat earth kind of mentality, intellectually. Not that I'm Einstein, but yeah. No. 

Edited by socks
No reason for edit....No reason at all. Why? Did it look like there's a reason? I never said I had a reason?!! Why are you hounding me over this reason thing!??! Did someone say I had a reason?? Who - who said it, I need to know before I answer thi-----
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I used the law of believing, once, to levitate a table. Well, it was actually more like a patio umbrella but, boy howdy, that son of a gun lifted straight up in the air. If I remember correctly, it was a really hot and sticky August afternoon. I don't know about you, but I have trouble focusing when I'm uncomfortable. Then, just like that, a big storm came in with lots of rain and gusty wind. I instantly felt relief from the heat. I guess that made it easier to focus in and get the results I wanted/needed.

 

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22 minutes ago, waysider said:

I used the law of believing, once, to levitate a table. Well, it was actually more like a patio umbrella but, boy howdy, that son of a gun lifted straight up in the air. If I remember correctly, it was a really hot and sticky August afternoon. I don't know about you, but I have trouble focusing when I'm uncomfortable. Then, just like that, a big storm came in with lots of rain and gusty wind. I instantly felt relief from the heat. I guess that made it easier to focus in and get the results I wanted/needed.

 

:jump:

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On 8/11/2019 at 12:12 AM, Duke Baxter said:

Wow, I guess I must've had a fairly sheltered life back when I was in the Ministry. I never heard anything about John being associated with a "personal prophecy" debacle, or even shilling "Momentus" under-the-table -- what were those two issues all about? And how exactly did he "double-down" on those controversies? Wasn't John fired from the Ministry back when Craig gave all the leadership and Corp members an ultimatum that they either had to follow him or Jesus Christ? Maybe I was wrong about that one too. In this particular video interview, John seems to be marching lock-step with Dr. Weirwille on the 800-lb gorilla issues of the trinity, speaking in tongues, and eternal salvation. Maybe even sounds a little more eloquent than the Doctor ever did, but John obviously seems to be still totting the old company line at least on these three major topics. Say what you will about John, he's certainly determined, committed, resilient, and faithful to his personal beliefs on God and His Word. 

I feel like i must have lived a very sheltered life in the ministry as well.  I consider my year at Emporia the best year of my life because of the love I was shown by the college division students and way corp members.  I made so many good memories and people I still consider friends even though I haven't seen them in many years.  Thinking back on some of the teachings and the very strict militant rules at the college I can now see a certain level of control and manipulation but there were also many lessons that had a very positive impact on my life.  While at the college I had IMMENSE respect for JAL.  Whenever he taught I felt like he was talking directly to me.  He had a way of cutting to the core of a matter in a humorous, engaging and thought provoking way and for some reason he had a huge impact on me.  Of course I was only 18 and missed a lot of what was happening at the college, especially with the way corp.  I do know I was totally disgusted with the decision to put LCM in charge.  I never liked him and had absolutely no respect for him even at my young age.  His energy BAD.  I always felt JAL would have been a much better choice.  Having said that I have no clue how clean or dirty his hands were with regards to the rampant corruption within the ministry.         

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Duke, CD, et al - John changed his own teaching on speaking in tongues in regards to interpretation before he was fired by Howard Allen. He ran around the country "exposing" the Trustees evil ways and handling a laundry list of doctrinal points he wanted to cover and that was one of them. Dr. Weirwille's ground-zero on doctrine was the holy spirit field, and he was adamant on numerous occasions that it was the centerpiece of the PFAL series. He safeguarded everything taught in the PFAL series with the intention of never changing any of it. His son Donald made that clear too after VPW's death when the subject of re doing PFAL was rolling around the Corps, and it did not deal with the presentation package, it dealt with doctrine - "every jot and tittle" as he stated it. 

All the Corps and staff who'd been around since at least the early 70's had heard that many times from VPW in many different applications - "change one thing in the Word and your whole bible falls to pieces" was the logic being applied. Although he did not state PFAL was specifically a re issuing of the Word of God he did state that he felt it was the "best he could do" and that in fact anyone could do. 

That was forgotten or ignored later, very conveniently. And I can only restate my contention to John AT THE TIME when we spoke, that IF he chose to change the PFAL series teaching in whole or in part it was NOT his right to infer that Dr. Wierwille would have approved or agreed or as he wrote in a public statement that VPW would be "proud" of his work. Face value - he knew that was a lie and if he actually believed it himself he was living in a dream. 

Lot of this, a lot of people don't know or admittedly weren't there for. Just as I wasn't around for things Craig did or is said to have done later after I exited formally in 1989. I have changed, adjusted some of the doctrine I learned in PFAL and the Way Corps over the years, some of it I had worked on since my first year in residence. I don't apologize for that or even feel that it separates me from any other member of the Body of Christ, but I DON'T tell people that ol' Dr. Wierwille would be "proud" of what I've done, because as per the last times I heard him talk about changing things he'd taught in PFAL and the people who did that - let's say he didn't support that. 

Momentous, "personal prophecy", the nature of God and His sovereignty, etc. etc. ......... he's made some more than subtle changes in what he teaches, although the bulk of the public stuff is pretty much "Christian-Lite" Osteen/Meyer level teaching. I'm sure it's inspirational to many people. 

It's history. And as of 2020 if John's still the deluded but well meaning guy he was years ago, fine. I'm closing the book on beating some of these dead horses as it has no real connection or meaning to my life now, other than I find I have no animosity to him or many others. It doesn't change anything and versions may vary from person to person (and probably should based on individual experience) 

Carry on! 

 

Edited by socks
Like January Christmas lights under billion year old stars, she comes up with more of what is lost than what is found

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For those who never looked for the threads on Momentus and Personal Prophecy here (there's a search function, after all), I'm posting 2 links as a public service.  The forum "Spirit and Truth Fellowship International" has both threads I'm linking to...

"CES and Momentous" and "Step Right Up, get your own personal prophecy."     Both have links to at least 1 other discussion at the GSC on their subjects.

https://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/topic/13316-ces-and-momentous/

https://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/topic/12632-step-right-up-get-your-own-personal-prophecy/

BTW, the "Momentus" thread was here:

https://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/topic/4424-momentus/

 

 

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