Wierwille was a Pharisee

[skyrider]

One of the things that I find interesting is that Jesus strongly confronted the Pharisees (Matt. 23).... but not the Sadducees.

With sections of Scripture, the Pharisee-confrontations stand out as examples of hypocrisy that the people could easily understand.  Yet, the Sadducees are rarely mentioned.  They didn't receive the ire of Jesus' confrontations like the Pharisees did.   Perhaps, it's because of the Sadducees' close ties with the Temple worship.... whereas, Jesus was teaching his disciples and mixing with the common people.  

Apparently there was a two-tier religious hierarchy amongst the Jewish people...wherein, the Saducees occupied the upper-tier.  Their wealth, status and social order gave them prominence of Temple worship.  "The Sadducees and Pharisees were in constant conflict with each other, not only over numerous details of ritual and the Law but most importantly over the content and extent of God’s revelation to the Jewish people." [Link:  Sadducee]

More:  "Though the Sadducees were conservative in religious matters, their wealth, their haughty bearing, and their willingness to compromise with the Roman rulers aroused the hatred of the common people. As defenders of the status quo, the Sadducees viewed the ministry of Jesus with considerable alarm and apparently played some role in his trial and death. Their lives and political authority were so intimately bound up with Temple worship that after Roman legions destroyed the Temple, the Sadducees ceased to exist as a group, and mention of them quickly disappeared from history."

According to this source, the wealth and social status of the Sadducees gave them more access to political authority.  And, Jesus was a threat to the status quo that could upset the balance of their power in Jewish society.  Self-centered power and control was of utmost importance to the Sadducees.... not that God sent a savior, lord and new king to the Jewish people.

 

 

[Rocky]

4 hours ago, skyrider said:

the Sadducees ceased to exist as a group, and mention of them quickly disappeared from history."

Was that why they were so SAD you see?  

Isn't it amazing to still, after all these years, find a memetic expression from Wierwille and the PFLAP class so easily retrieved?

[Twinky]

I very much doubt that that was a VPW original, Rocky.

[Rocky]

5 hours ago, Twinky said:

I very much doubt that that was a VPW original, Rocky.

I concur.  

[skyrider]

19 hours ago, skyrider said:

Their lives and political authority were so intimately bound up with Temple worship that after Roman legions destroyed the Temple, the Sadducees ceased to exist as a group, and mention of them quickly disappeared from history."

 

Take away the marketplace [the money-changers / the Temple]..... and business ceased to exist.

The Sadducees quickly dispersed and disappeared as a group of influence.

~~~~~~~~~~~

If twi's "headquarters" was destroyed by a massive tornado..... twi's power/influence would disappear overnight.

The money-changers would need to find another gig.

 

[T-Bone]

4 hours ago, skyrider said:

If twi's "headquarters" was destroyed by a massive tornado..... twi's power/influence would disappear overnight.

“It is finished” = Release from Your Prisons

 

~ ~ ~ ~

 

Yes Dorothy, that means you don’t have to send in your blue forms with the Twig's abundant sharing anymore.

 

 

4 hours ago, skyrider said:

The money-changers would need to find another gig.

 

Meanwhile the wicked witch of the offshoots wants those ruby slippers.

[penworks]

I prefer calling VPW what he was: a sexual predator, a cavalier plagarist, an abuser of naive followers.

[OldSkool]

1 hour ago, penworks said:

I prefer calling VPW what he was: a sexual predator, a cavalier plagarist, an abuser of naive followers.

It's good to keep this front and center. The way international has spent a couple decades polishing VPW tarnished image.

[Nathan_Jr]

Just a little charlatan so full of bullshonta. Had he been given an enema before he died, he could have been buried in a match box.

[Rocky]

7 hours ago, OldSkool said:

The way international has spent a couple decades polishing VPW tarnished turdish image.

 

[penworks]

13 hours ago, penworks said:

I prefer calling VPW what he was: a sexual predator, a cavalier plagarist, an abuser of naive followers.

oops, I need to correct plagarist to plagiarist. If you don't know much about that, read this: plagiarism . 

Edited April 7, 2023 by penworks

[waysider]

39 minutes ago, penworks said:

oops, I need to correct plagarist to plagiarist. If you don't know much about that, read this: plagiarism . 

I'm baffled as to why you so kindly portray him. 

[chockfull]

16 hours ago, penworks said:

I prefer calling VPW what he was: a sexual predator, a cavalier plagarist, an abuser of naive followers.

Yeah that is good.  These are traits that don’t appear front and center in any of the bronze images of the man in lobbies of auditoriums or on the desks of sycophant followers.

[skyrider]

4 hours ago, chockfull said:

Yeah that is good.  These are traits that don’t appear front and center in any of the bronze images of the man in lobbies of auditoriums or on the desks of sycophant followers.

Wierwille was a malignant narcissist who lusted for power and control.  He devolved into drunkenness, misogyny, serial plagiarism, a short-tempered bully and a sexual predator.  He fits the biblical definition of “a man of the flesh.”

 

[Rocky]

1 hour ago, skyrider said:

Wierwille was a malignant narcissist who lusted for power and control.  He devolved into drunkenness, misogyny, serial plagiarism, a short-tempered bully and a sexual predator.  He fits the biblical definition of “a man of the flesh.”

 

Wierwille's problem (in contemporary American culture and religious history) is not simply the ubiquity of the internet, but also the immensely immense growth of social and psychological scientific knowledge and understanding over the last two millennia. Not to mention how many people can read and write because of the proliferation of public education (worldwide).  

[Rocky]

22 hours ago, penworks said:

I prefer calling VPW what he was: a sexual predator, a cavalier plagiarist, an abuser of naïve followers.

Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards. - Soren Kierkegaard

I wonder if, during his life, he ever read enough of Kierkegaard to have grasped this reality? 

 

Edited April 7, 2023 by Rocky

[T-Bone]

9 hours ago, skyrider said:

Wierwille was a malignant narcissist who lusted for power and control.  He devolved into drunkenness, misogyny, serial plagiarism, a short-tempered bully and a sexual predator.  He fits the biblical definition of “a man of the flesh.”

 

That’s the challenge of trying to describe a very complex, problematic and charming cult-leader like wierwille - there’s not just one description that says it all. Usually in the Bible when someone has a life-dominating sin then they’ve earned the title – thus a pathological deceiver is called a liar, one who steals is called a thief. And since people are complicated beings – there’s nothing in the Bible saying you can’t have more than one life-dominating sin.

 

I ain’t perfect. I’ve had a few life-dominating sins in my lifetime – even in TWI – that particular life-dominating sin was the pride I had for thinking I knew more about God and the Bible than anyone outside of TWI…shortly after I left TWI I got a little taste of the day of reckoning while I was shopping at the grocery store. Looking at the other shoppers – realizing for the first time… in a looooong time that I was no better than anyone else - - I hurried through my shopping holding back tears.

Hey, I’m still a sinner – I have little bouts of temptations to lie, lust, seek revenge. I think I do pretty good not letting those ‘appealing things’ run and ruin my life.

Been married 47 years – never cheated on my wife. I’m still somewhat of an a$$-hole but since I left TWI I no longer am a rising star a$$-hole Twig-coordinator Pharisee-wannabe. Now I just try to be a repentant a$$hole to wife, kids, friends, neighbors…I’m retired now – but in all of my work career I’ve never stole from work or exploited / abused others to get ahead.

Excuse me for going on so much about myself on this thread  – but believe it or not I do have a reason…or rather reasons – and here they are.  I honestly think I am no better or worse than anyone else on Grease Spot Café – and there must be something in me that got damaged in my cult experience because I still have issues with low self-esteem and self-doubt.
 

Low self-esteem – maybe from feeling I fell so short of that hollow renewed mind model we learned in TWI…I’ve always liked being sort of a people-pleaser – but in TWI that got taken advantage of big time and it seemed like I always disappointed upper leadership - maybe it was because they kept moving the goal post  – and I often succumbed to their guilt trip tactics anyway - so I get that who am I to judge others vibe - even if wierwille manifested a cacophony of life-dominating sins.

Self-doubt – sales as a career is not my thing, leadership and management are not for me either – you can’t be timid, introverted and unassertive – and that’s me   Robert Petrie – sure I’m one ridiculously dapper dude.

 

~ ~ ~ ~

 

Any wierwille-sympathizers reading this please take note. This post is typical of what normal people do. This post is normal for what cult-survivors do. This ain’t politics folks!
 

This is life skills 101 for the young and naïve who got suckered into a destructive and manipulating pseudo-Christian organization.
 

keeping all that toxic cult mindset bottled up ain’t healthy. 

unpacking and sorting out the intellectual and emotional baggage is very helpful to one’s well-being. It’s normal to acknowledge the hurt.
 

If you still hold wierwille in such high regard – then I challenge you on this – there might be something out of whack with your scale of values. So sorry - I'm not gonna get guilt-tripped every time I say something negative about you-know-who.

The more I think about it, the more I think big wierwille fans need to recalibrate their powers of discernment. You see, big wierwille fans are using a reference point that is skewed - which is their beloved super-duper-hypocrite teachings on the love of God thinketh no evil, anything done in the love of God is okay...and it is by that standard they get all up in arms of anyone who dares to bring up any valid criticism of wierwille. Oh, we're not loving. Oh, we're not forgiving. Geesh - give me a break...if the media - hell - if the general public knew of all the hypocritical bull$hit wierwille got away with - you all would be laughed out of the country for defending such a hot mess.  damn straight!

 

At least I really tried to walk the talk when I was in TWI - and I think that’s true for a lot of the folks that I served , fellowshipped with and worked under. That’s way more than wierwille’s stage-act. Pharisees have a double standard. They hold all the peons like us to a squeaky clean and submissive rule of thumb. But the big dogs of Pharisee-Central get a free pass! They claim they love God and neighbor but they do as they full well please! 

wake up and smell the bull-$hit !

 

You know damn well if wierwille ever got wind of you exploiting, abusing, character assassinating, sexually molesting any other TWI-follower  - - he’d get all holier-than-thou on your a$$…it’s okay for him but not for you. That’s the double standard!

 

but you know - I think the hypocrisy of Pharisee-Central may have an attractant for those who already have proclivities to exploit, abuse, character assassinate , sexually molest others - like a moth drawn to the flame. People like that can smell opportunities a mile away. I was clueless to the wife-swapping that went on at Rome City campus because I was focused on trying to be the best little old TWI-believer that I could be. I was dumb enough to think PFAL was the gold standard of the Christian lifestyle. I thought wierwille was the real deal. I believed his 1942 audible promise from God story. 

~ ~ ~ ~

 

Self-doubting-low-self-esteemer types get chewed up and spit out by harmful and controlling cults.

You have no idea what emotional and intellectual  turmoil I go through when we discuss the invisible idol that was embedded deep down inside.

Reverential admiration…like idolatry is love.  I had… …maybe I still have a slowly diminishing love-hate relationship with wierwille and LCM  - there’s both very positive and very negative feelings. I have not been so deeply abused, exploited or molested like some here have – maybe that would make it easier to snub these weird feelings…I’ve never been divorced. But I imagine there’s a love-hate relationship on both sides. Leaving a cult – maybe it’s like that – I miss all the good people  and good stuff I got out of it – but I hate all the bad $hit…when something so bad is so close to your heart   it's gotta be harder than brain surgery to get it removed.

I come to Grease Spot Café for a lot of reasons. Expose TWI. Promote freedom of thought. Encourage others to develop cognitive skills. Help and pray for others. Soak up the therapy. Have fun. Enjoy the company – I’m not alone on this unusual journey.

 

Thanks for letting me get all sorts of vulnerable here…oh yeah, another selfish reason why I make myself vulnerable – I’m into developing meaningful and profound relationships with Grease Spotters.

now it’s time for me to climb back into my Iron Man suit , which I got cheap at Syms Clothing Store ( “An educated consumer is our best customer.” – yes, that Syms Clothing) before they closed down.

Okay I’m done! Go the mass has ended…thanks be to God!!! 

 

 

Edited April 8, 2023 by T-Bone
and in addition

[skyrider]

19 hours ago, T-Bone said:

That’s the challenge of trying to describe a very complex, problematic and charming cult-leader like wierwille - there’s not just one description that says it all. Usually in the Bible when someone has a life-dominating sin then they’ve earned the title – thus a pathological deceiver is called a liar, one who steals is called a thief. And since people are complicated beings – there’s nothing in the Bible saying you can’t have more than one life-dominating sin.

In an isolated cult-world, wierwille had the upper hand.  With enablers and an inner circle of yes-men, wierwille could control the messaging of "his greatness" by fabricated lies and spending the last years of his life constructing a lasting legacy.  That all came crashing down upon him when the internet was widely accessed by his once-followers.  The walls at twi could no longer contain his secrets.

Just as an upright man has many character-building attributes, a deceiver has many destructive sins.  Some of these destructive habits were formed in wierwille's childhood and teenage years.  It's been well-documented that young vic would hide in the way woods to avoid work.  Apparently, his father never corrected this lazy nature as it carried over into adulthood.  Side-stepping responsibility gave way to a contempt for accountability.  And, riding his motorcycle to school, wierwille was a showboat who garnered attention with his crazy stunts.  Since wierwille was the youngest child, his parents were reluctant to correct his behavior.

Vic and Dorothy secretly eloped and, at the time, violated rules of vic's higher education.  He was not allowed to change his marital status in mid-year.  Once again, vic is thumbing his nose at "elders' authority" over him..... just like he later did with his denomination's board members.  This rejection of authority/accountability followed wierwille the rest of his life.  Thus, the makings of a cult leader were built brick-by-brick throughout his life.  Yet, like all true authoritarians or totalitarian regimes..... they demand strict obedience of others.

Wierwille's pathological disorders drove him to be anal-retentive of the absurd.

 

 

[chockfull]

On the other thread we learned of the lawsuit and surrounding neglect of VPWs widow after his passing.  

So the woman who along with the founder donated the land to TWI faced their abandonment during the end times of her life.

This is indeed a Pharisee whose children in leadership of TWI are threefold the children of hell he was.

[annio]

On 4/1/2023 at 12:02 AM, Charity said:

The Pharisees wanted to kill Jesus because they knew he was doing many miracles and if they did nothing, they feared that all men would come to believe in him and the Romans would then come and take away both their place and nation (John 11:47-48).  Likewise, I think vp saw the love and praise young people had for Jesus and wanted that love and praise all for himself.  So he cunningly demoted, demeaned and devalued Jesus in his teachings and especially his programs so that Christ no longer lived in our lives (i.e., he was basically dead to us) and vp was then able to maintain his lordship in his kingdom that was called twi.  That was my experience for the years I was involved in twi and remained my experience for decades later until very recently.

OMG, THANK YOU for this Charity... I say it with tears welling up, but that is EXACTLY what happened!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! K, now I have to grieve all the years I disconnected from Jesus... This will take awhile to recover from, but oh well, what is new????!!!!

 

[annio]

On 4/7/2023 at 6:27 PM, T-Bone said:

 

That’s the challenge of trying to describe a very complex, problematic and charming cult-leader like wierwille - there’s not just one description that says it all. Usually in the Bible when someone has a life-dominating sin then they’ve earned the title – thus a pathological deceiver is called a liar, one who steals is called a thief. And since people are complicated beings – there’s nothing in the Bible saying you can’t have more than one life-dominating sin.

 

I ain’t perfect. I’ve had a few life-dominating sins in my lifetime – even in TWI – that particular life-dominating sin was the pride I had for thinking I knew more about God and the Bible than anyone outside of TWI…shortly after I left TWI I got a little taste of the day of reckoning while I was shopping at the grocery store. Looking at the other shoppers – realizing for the first time… in a looooong time that I was no better than anyone else - - I hurried through my shopping holding back tears.

Hey, I’m still a sinner – I have little bouts of temptations to lie, lust, seek revenge. I think I do pretty good not letting those ‘appealing things’ run and ruin my life.

Been married 47 years – never cheated on my wife. I’m still somewhat of an a$$-hole but since I left TWI I no longer am a rising star a$$-hole Twig-coordinator Pharisee-wannabe. Now I just try to be a repentant a$$hole to wife, kids, friends, neighbors…I’m retired now – but in all of my work career I’ve never stole from work or exploited / abused others to get ahead.

Excuse me for going on so much about myself on this thread  – but believe it or not I do have a reason…or rather reasons – and here they are.  I honestly think I am no better or worse than anyone else on Grease Spot Café – and there must be something in me that got damaged in my cult experience because I still have issues with low self-esteem and self-doubt.
 

Low self-esteem – maybe from feeling I fell so short of that hollow renewed mind model we learned in TWI…I’ve always liked being sort of a people-pleaser – but in TWI that got taken advantage of big time and it seemed like I always disappointed upper leadership - maybe it was because they kept moving the goal post  – and I often succumbed to their guilt trip tactics anyway - so I get that who am I to judge others vibe - even if wierwille manifested a cacophony of life-dominating sins.

Self-doubt – sales as a career is not my thing, leadership and management are not for me either – you can’t be timid, introverted and unassertive – and that’s me   Robert Petrie – sure I’m one ridiculously dapper dude.

 

~ ~ ~ ~

 

Any wierwille-sympathizers reading this please take note. This post is typical of what normal people do. This post is normal for what cult-survivors do. This ain’t politics folks!
 

This is life skills 101 for the young and naïve who got suckered into a destructive and manipulating pseudo-Christian organization.
 

keeping all that toxic cult mindset bottled up ain’t healthy. 

unpacking and sorting out the intellectual and emotional baggage is very helpful to one’s well-being. It’s normal to acknowledge the hurt.
 

If you still hold wierwille in such high regard – then I challenge you on this – there might be something out of whack with your scale of values. So sorry - I'm not gonna get guilt-tripped every time I say something negative about you-know-who.

The more I think about it, the more I think big wierwille fans need to recalibrate their powers of discernment. You see, big wierwille fans are using a reference point that is skewed - which is their beloved super-duper-hypocrite teachings on the love of God thinketh no evil, anything done in the love of God is okay...and it is by that standard they get all up in arms of anyone who dares to bring up any valid criticism of wierwille. Oh, we're not loving. Oh, we're not forgiving. Geesh - give me a break...if the media - hell - if the general public knew of all the hypocritical bull$hit wierwille got away with - you all would be laughed out of the country for defending such a hot mess.  damn straight!

 

At least I really tried to walk the talk when I was in TWI - and I think that’s true for a lot of the folks that I served , fellowshipped with and worked under. That’s way more than wierwille’s stage-act. Pharisees have a double standard. They hold all the peons like us to a squeaky clean and submissive rule of thumb. But the big dogs of Pharisee-Central get a free pass! They claim they love God and neighbor but they do as they full well please! 

wake up and smell the bull-$hit !

 

You know damn well if wierwille ever got wind of you exploiting, abusing, character assassinating, sexually molesting any other TWI-follower  - - he’d get all holier-than-thou on your a$$…it’s okay for him but not for you. That’s the double standard!

 

but you know - I think the hypocrisy of Pharisee-Central may have an attractant for those who already have proclivities to exploit, abuse, character assassinate , sexually molest others - like a moth drawn to the flame. People like that can smell opportunities a mile away. I was clueless to the wife-swapping that went on at Rome City campus because I was focused on trying to be the best little old TWI-believer that I could be. I was dumb enough to think PFAL was the gold standard of the Christian lifestyle. I thought wierwille was the real deal. I believed his 1942 audible promise from God story. 

~ ~ ~ ~

 

Self-doubting-low-self-esteemer types get chewed up and spit out by harmful and controlling cults.

You have no idea what emotional and intellectual  turmoil I go through when we discuss the invisible idol that was embedded deep down inside.

Reverential admiration…like idolatry is love.  I had… …maybe I still have a slowly diminishing love-hate relationship with wierwille and LCM  - there’s both very positive and very negative feelings. I have not been so deeply abused, exploited or molested like some here have – maybe that would make it easier to snub these weird feelings…I’ve never been divorced. But I imagine there’s a love-hate relationship on both sides. Leaving a cult – maybe it’s like that – I miss all the good people  and good stuff I got out of it – but I hate all the bad $hit…when something so bad is so close to your heart   it's gotta be harder than brain surgery to get it removed.

I come to Grease Spot Café for a lot of reasons. Expose TWI. Promote freedom of thought. Encourage others to develop cognitive skills. Help and pray for others. Soak up the therapy. Have fun. Enjoy the company – I’m not alone on this unusual journey.

 

Thanks for letting me get all sorts of vulnerable here…oh yeah, another selfish reason why I make myself vulnerable – I’m into developing meaningful and profound relationships with Grease Spotters.

now it’s time for me to climb back into my Iron Man suit , which I got cheap at Syms Clothing Store ( “An educated consumer is our best customer.” – yes, that Syms Clothing) before they closed down.

Okay I’m done! Go the mass has ended…thanks be to God!!! 

 

 

OMG, THANK YOU THANK YOU T-BONE!!!!!!!!!! And preach it, teach it, EXPOSE IT!!!!!!!!!!!

And been cruising around GSC and now cant remember if it was you or someone else who posted this below with a great explanation of how the way corpse was like this below for him/her... God will be the ultimate judge I say, but vp gave into the temptations to take advantage of me and numerous others in the ways so well enumerated above, and for that I personally hold him ACCOUNTABLE. (I think/hope the image will post.)

 

 

[Charity]

7 minutes ago, annio said:

OMG, THANK YOU for this Charity... I say it with tears welling up, but that is EXACTLY what happened!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! K, now I have to grieve all the years I disconnected from Jesus... This will take awhile to recover from, but oh well, what is new????!!!!

 

I'm on my way out the door, but I was exactly in the place you are speaking of now.  It all opened up to me when I started reading the Absent Christ thread at the end of November of last year and it was definitely a grieving process that many of the posters helped me get through.  Here's the link to where I began on GSC - and another link for the beginning of the thread.  You'll find posts begin to stray off topic but keep scrolling through when that happens.  This is a very long thread (93 pages).  That thread is now closed but if you wanted to start a new one with a slightly different name, you can get a lot of support from others.  Please keep in touch.

This is where OldSkool began the thread

 

[annio]

On 4/19/2023 at 12:12 PM, Charity said:

I'm on my way out the door, but I was exactly in the place you are speaking of now.  It all opened up to me when I started reading the Absent Christ thread at the end of November of last year and it was definitely a grieving process that many of the posters helped me get through.  Here's the link to where I began on GSC - and another link for the beginning of the thread.  You'll find posts begin to stray off topic but keep scrolling through when that happens.  This is a very long thread (93 pages).  That thread is now closed but if you wanted to start a new one with a slightly different name, you can get a lot of support from others.  Please keep in touch.

This is where OldSkool began the thread

 

THANK YOU Charity!!! Am now ready to check this out ASAP. Sorry so late in replying!! 

[Charity]

1 hour ago, annio said:

THANK YOU Charity!!! Am now ready to check this out ASAP. Sorry so late in replying!! 

No problem Annio.  Grieving such a loss over what you missed out on in your relationship with Christ because of twi will be according to your own personal timetable.  Check back in if and when you want - the best thing I learned from being on GSC was that I'm not alone and neither are you.