Anything that Loy introduced could never have been plagiarized. Who else in the world would have said that crap in the first place? At least most of docvic's junk had a semblance of logic and substance to it if you didn't look too hard.
When I left, the word from our local corpse was that everything Loy taught was accurate. It was just the heart behind it that was lacking. They said the new classes will not refute any of his BS. At least it helped me make my decision.
But no, I think his spew was ~ for lack of a better word ~ original. And I don't think he claimed that he originated the Sphinx nonsense. In fact, I think I recall him using the illustration from Bullinger's book at a STS or in a class ~ or something I was sleeping through.
I used to have an open mind but my brains kept falling out.
[This message was edited by Flay Minion on February 12, 2004 at 20:59.]
Only class I ever took taught by lcm, was that Rise and Expansion thing he taught about Acts.
But I wouldn't put it past him to use someone else's work, then take credit for it.
But he certainly can't take "authorship" credit for all the vulgar language he uses, so maybe he doesn't plagarize --- since the vulgarity is usually the main bulk of his "teaching" :D--> :D--> :D-->
I THINK he used Bullinger's Star chart similar to the one in the back of the Witness of the Stars book. Could be wrong. I wish I had my silly-bus to check. Hopefully, someone will have it.
Martindale's showed off his Harvard Classics collection and his college degree in WayAP, but he mustn't have taken any logic courses judging by the content.
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is
The gap theory of creation has been around a long time and is promoted by many people. Derek Prince, an early charismatic/pentecostal teacher promoted it. That's the kind of source VP could have picked up on his tour of the early charismatic circuit (of which JE Stiles was a part) and passed on to LC. Or LC could have found it elsewhere. I'm sure LC didn't come up with that on his own.
LCM did not promote himself to the degree VP did-- as one who dumped all of man's teachings and heard from God alone, word for word. In that sense, there wasn't a need to prove plagiarism on LC's part as there was to show plagiarism on VP's part. LC's claim to fame was that he bought VP's line, word for word.
LC also didn't promote himself as an author. What is there- one book to his name? Plagiarism is more an author's failing than a speaker's failing. A speaker like VP could plagiarize as he spoke (VP did this during PFAL). But plagiarism is most easily tracable when an author sits down with someone else's book at his side and copies what he reads into his "own" book, as VP did with many of "his" books. LC didn't write enough to plagiarize much. For the most part, he didn't pretend to be an author of books. Instead, he pretended to be a dancer.
That said, I'll add that people (Like C Geer) did plagiarize when they wrote syllabuses. But it seems LC even let others write his syllabuses for him.
LCM used to say that authors shouldn't write until they had something worth saying; a lot of books were written because of the ego of the authors. This was his reason for not writing anything before R&E. (He seems to have forgotten at the time the number of books published under VPW's name. Or perhaps he thought he didn't know as much as VPW.) But R&E was important now as we moved into the Decade of the Whatever Word (I dunno the sequence of the "Decades" now, nor do I care to try to remember.)
Interesting that he should write R&E right after a mass exodus of people after the Loy-alty letter. A sort of oxymoron, perhaps.
Also, with the internet being more widely accessible, it would be easier to spot plagiarism and he had enough other litigatable things that needed to be covered up, without covering up any plagiarism.
LC also didn't promote himself as an author. What is there- one book to his name? Plagiarism is more an author's failing than a speaker's failing. A speaker like VP could plagiarize as he spoke (VP did this during PFAL). But plagiarism is most easily tracable when an author sits down with someone else's book at his side and copies what he reads into his "own" book, as VP did with many of "his" books. LC didn't write enough to plagiarize much. For the most part, he didn't pretend to be an author of books.
iInstead, he pretended to be a dancer.
That said, I'll add that people (Like C Geer) did plagiarize when they wrote syllabuses. But it seems LC even let others write his syllabuses for him.
It's not without irony that he plagiarized THAT.
"Athletes of the Spirit: the Spiritual Competition" was ripped off
from "Satan's Alley", the show within the movie of John Travolta's "Staying Alive".
(The sequel to "Saturday Night Fever.")
And the phrase "athlete of the spirit" was used by the Fellowship of Christian
Athletes, and organization l craig martindale was well aware of when he was in college.
I think a big limited to lcm's plagiarism was that he lacked the exposure to other
materials and scholarship to find less-famous Christians to rip off.
That's why his ripped-off stuff is largely mangled sports metaphors and catchphrases
Rise and Expansion was a horrible read. It was really classic LCM - disjointed and all over the road. As for plagiarizing, it would seem he did just that. I remember the Sphinx teaching/bit he did and I believe he did claim that was new. I didn't realize that it's in Bullinger. I wonder if it's been removed from the new class that Rosie put together. Martindale has pretty much been erased from the annals of TWI as much as possible.
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insurgent
I remember that statement. I'll look and see when I get home.
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TheInvisibleDan
Wow, JT -
that's a whole new can of worms I haven't heard raised here before in regard to LCM.
But then again, I don't think we've encountered thus far even one apologist on LCM's behalf, in the same degree as VPW.
At least yet (lol)!
Given the recent, illustrious mutations of Way theology, it wouldn't surprise me if one or two LCM apologists turns up soon.
Surely there must be even one who believes VPW made no mistake when he passed his angel(s) onto LCM, making LCM the new revelation king.
Perhaps they haven't been thrown out of the Way yet.
Danny
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Flay Minion
Anything that Loy introduced could never have been plagiarized. Who else in the world would have said that crap in the first place? At least most of docvic's junk had a semblance of logic and substance to it if you didn't look too hard.
When I left, the word from our local corpse was that everything Loy taught was accurate. It was just the heart behind it that was lacking. They said the new classes will not refute any of his BS. At least it helped me make my decision.
But no, I think his spew was ~ for lack of a better word ~ original. And I don't think he claimed that he originated the Sphinx nonsense. In fact, I think I recall him using the illustration from Bullinger's book at a STS or in a class ~ or something I was sleeping through.
I used to have an open mind but my brains kept falling out.
[This message was edited by Flay Minion on February 12, 2004 at 20:59.]
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Groucho
lcm steal somebody else's work? naw, he wasn't smart enough to pull it off
Besides, he loved to "amaze" everybody with his far-fetched and incredibly stupid new doctrines.
By the way, is he still driving a delivery truck? Yuk Yuk
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dmiller
Only class I ever took taught by lcm, was that Rise and Expansion thing he taught about Acts.
But I wouldn't put it past him to use someone else's work, then take credit for it.
But he certainly can't take "authorship" credit for all the vulgar language he uses, so maybe he doesn't plagarize --- since the vulgarity is usually the main bulk of his "teaching"
:D--> 
:D--> 
:D-->
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JustThinking
Flay,
I THINK he used Bullinger's Star chart similar to the one in the back of the Witness of the Stars book. Could be wrong. I wish I had my silly-bus to check. Hopefully, someone will have it.
JT
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WordWolf
Actually,
I remember us discussing this before.
It's on one of the threads SOMEWHERE....
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wyteduv58
He had the worst case of potty mouth I've ever seen, you could smell it a mile away.
.
Dovey....proud owner of two low riders...Dovey's Doxies...... too dumb to post pics http://gscafe.com/groupee/forums?s=9716057...a&ul=4846073735
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JustThinking
Does anyone have a syllabus?
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Sweetpea
He was much too stupid to do that.
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Dot Matrix
Welcome Sweetpea!
Great first post!
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TheInvisibleDan
Maybe he had someone else do it for him?
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Oakspear
Martindale's showed off his Harvard Classics collection and his college degree in WayAP, but he mustn't have taken any logic courses judging by the content.
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is
Oakspear
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Lightside
All his Adam & Eve teachings came from someone esle.
Who, you may ask??????
L
O
O
K
D
E
E
P
D
O
W
N
T
O
T
H
E
P
I
T
O
F
H
E
L
L
LCM got it from the DeeeeeeviL
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Sunny1
He had a big heart. . .
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Oakspear
No, just a big forehead
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is
Oakspear
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Ham
It was at an advanced class special. 95 I think.
Yes, he claimed to have come up with this "new" research. Other leaders were slobbering all over
him, saying how we should be so proud to have a
MOG that could bring us such "new light."
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JustThinking
Mr. H,
You may be right. I couldn't remember where it was but was pretty sure he made the claim. If I can find my AC sillybus, I'll dig for the quote.
Oak,
Too funny!
Sweetpea,
Too stupid to plagiarize or too stupid too come up with it himself?
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Bolshevik
Lcm plagiarize? Him and vpw make two . . . Hmmm. . . I doubt it ends there . . .
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johnj
The gap theory of creation has been around a long time and is promoted by many people. Derek Prince, an early charismatic/pentecostal teacher promoted it. That's the kind of source VP could have picked up on his tour of the early charismatic circuit (of which JE Stiles was a part) and passed on to LC. Or LC could have found it elsewhere. I'm sure LC didn't come up with that on his own.
LCM did not promote himself to the degree VP did-- as one who dumped all of man's teachings and heard from God alone, word for word. In that sense, there wasn't a need to prove plagiarism on LC's part as there was to show plagiarism on VP's part. LC's claim to fame was that he bought VP's line, word for word.
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johnj
LC also didn't promote himself as an author. What is there- one book to his name? Plagiarism is more an author's failing than a speaker's failing. A speaker like VP could plagiarize as he spoke (VP did this during PFAL). But plagiarism is most easily tracable when an author sits down with someone else's book at his side and copies what he reads into his "own" book, as VP did with many of "his" books. LC didn't write enough to plagiarize much. For the most part, he didn't pretend to be an author of books. Instead, he pretended to be a dancer.
That said, I'll add that people (Like C Geer) did plagiarize when they wrote syllabuses. But it seems LC even let others write his syllabuses for him.
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Twinky
Rise and Expansion... :(
LCM used to say that authors shouldn't write until they had something worth saying; a lot of books were written because of the ego of the authors. This was his reason for not writing anything before R&E. (He seems to have forgotten at the time the number of books published under VPW's name. Or perhaps he thought he didn't know as much as VPW.) But R&E was important now as we moved into the Decade of the Whatever Word (I dunno the sequence of the "Decades" now, nor do I care to try to remember.)
Interesting that he should write R&E right after a mass exodus of people after the Loy-alty letter. A sort of oxymoron, perhaps.
Also, with the internet being more widely accessible, it would be easier to spot plagiarism and he had enough other litigatable things that needed to be covered up, without covering up any plagiarism.
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WordWolf
It's not without irony that he plagiarized THAT.
"Athletes of the Spirit: the Spiritual Competition" was ripped off
from "Satan's Alley", the show within the movie of John Travolta's "Staying Alive".
(The sequel to "Saturday Night Fever.")
And the phrase "athlete of the spirit" was used by the Fellowship of Christian
Athletes, and organization l craig martindale was well aware of when he was in college.
I think a big limited to lcm's plagiarism was that he lacked the exposure to other
materials and scholarship to find less-famous Christians to rip off.
That's why his ripped-off stuff is largely mangled sports metaphors and catchphrases
like "go 'til you hear glass break."
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OldSkool
Rise and Expansion was a horrible read. It was really classic LCM - disjointed and all over the road. As for plagiarizing, it would seem he did just that. I remember the Sphinx teaching/bit he did and I believe he did claim that was new. I didn't realize that it's in Bullinger. I wonder if it's been removed from the new class that Rosie put together. Martindale has pretty much been erased from the annals of TWI as much as possible.
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