vp was the one who championed Wa* Pro*uctio*s from the very beginning. The other trustees and many in the cabinet thought it was a waste of money and time, and were satisfied with the old fashioned piano and organ stuff. Of course, once it became clear that using more contemporary music attracted people to take the class, they changed their tune and acted like they were supporters all along. That was the whole, sole purpose for WP...to make the ministry money.
It was always an uphill battle being a performer/writer/dancer because everything had to be "approved" before it could be used. The restrictions were stifling. Creativity was never important, but cleverness was. You know, like how many different ways can TWI doctrine be expressed in lyrics. vp fancied himself to be quite the authority on music and lyrics, and would frequently "correct" lyrics in such a way that the song became bland and lifeless...just like his life.
And focus on any one individual was avoided at all costs. Singers that were exceptionally talented and could attracted much attention to the ministry, were kept away from becoming too popular. Personally, I think vp was afraid of being upstaged, and was afraid of loosing control...but he sure did love taking credit for the whole shebang! You would not believe the torturous face meltings WP endured at his hands behind the scenes, for the most ridiculous reasons...often because the performance was "off the Word". But he NEVER could explain what that meant!
I'd rather watch a leaf blow down my street than watch this stuff.
There was only one person who looked like she might actually be enjoying life. They rest all looked like they were afraid to move.
And the dresses are just pitiful. One of the "ensembles" looks like someone pulled down the curtains and just stitched up the sides like a sack.
I can't imagine being on staff and sitting through something like this week after week. It would make Chinese water torture sound like the Boston Pops by comparison.
It was always an uphill battle being a performer/writer/dancer because everything had to be "approved" before it could be used. The restrictions were stifling. Creativity was never important, but cleverness was. You know, like how many different ways can TWI doctrine be expressed in lyrics. vp fancied himself to be quite the authority on music and lyrics, and would frequently "correct" lyrics in such a way that the song became bland and lifeless...just like his life.
It got far worse in the 90's under LCM. It started with Geer's directive not to do anything doctrinally new, but to review VP's stuff because we had all obviously "missed it" on the basics. People were afraid to do anything new, and certainly nothing "edgy". That carried over to every department at HQ.
The other aspect was that Craig's ego was such that he thought every word out of his own mouth was direct from God. So, instead of letting talented people come up with genuinely motivating and uplifting music, he directed the topics they were to compose music about. And it is my understanding that if you were full time way prod, you had a quota of songs to write. That kind of production-line mentality doesn't usually translate into spiritual inspiration or genuine creativity.
Well, Highway, I seem to remember something about "a house divided against itself". Ge*r and loy. What a couple of bozos!
Seems WP, under loys astute iron hand, was been driven into the ground and has never recovered. To bad TWI never noticed Psalms was poetry...God's contribution to the arts. :)
Personally, I think Father likes music!...He sure refers to it often enough in the bible.
Yes, thank God for His grace and mercy in our lives for we all have...uuhhhh....been seated in the heavenlies, set free from bondage, made sons of God Almighty, joint heirs with Jesus Christ....and the list goes on and on!!! THAT's worth singin' and dancin' about!! Dogone it! Fire up them fiddles and banjers and lets have a good old fashioned HOE DOWN for the Lord!! Kick up our heals and thank the Lord!!! YEEHAAAWW!!!
if anyone's wondering where twi is at these days, play that for them!
yikes! lawrence welk had more soul!
sounds to me like they ought to re-write that old book, and re-name it "The Way: Living in Fear," 'cause they're obviously scared of that old devil and his devil music.
I was taught in TWI that music was originally made to appease the devil spirits.... Did anyone else hear this?
I'm not so sure I heard it actually "taught" but I remember being "told" about this.
This was supposedly part of why Psalms was written. We used to make up impromtu music and sing the Psalms. Not to appease the devil spirits but because we tried to imagine what they (Psalms) might have been like originally.
Music has charms to soothe the savage breast
To soften rocks or bend a knotted oak----------
from "The Mourning Bride" by Wm. Congreve(17th century)
Heck, they should get the Women of Faith singers. Give me Casting Crowns, Newsboys, Rebecca St. James, Don Moen, Bill Gaither, Ted Ferrell, Brian Bliss, Dean Ellenwood, Good Seed, Pressed Down, Paul Vergilio, Johann Sebastian Bach, Paul Manz, Paul Weber, Donald Busarow, anyone but these poor excuses for musicians. Put them out of their misery now!
Heck, they should get the Women of Faith singers. Give me Casting Crowns, Newsboys, Rebecca St. James, Don Moen, Bill Gaither, Ted Ferrell, Brian Bliss, Dean Ellenwood, Good Seed, Pressed Down, Paul Vergilio, Johann Sebastian Bach, Paul Manz, Paul Weber, Donald Busarow, anyone but these poor excuses for musicians. Put them out of their misery now!
(maybe I misunderstand)
I'm not a muscian myself, but I don't think putting down the people on stage is appropriate. Reason being there's probably a lot of untapped talent on that stage. It's not the people on stage who are reasponsible for the music (well, most are not). I bet under different circumstances they could be a lot more inspiring. (i.e. in a different church) twi has talent for suppressing talent and "creativity" (gasp! he said "create"! )
I'm not a muscian myself, but I don't think putting down the people on stage is appropriate. Reason being there's probably a lot of untapped talent on that stage. It's not the people on stage who are reasponsible for the music (well, most are not). I bet under different circumstances they could be a lot more inspiring. (i.e. in a different church) twi has talent for suppressing talent and "creativity" (gasp! he said "create"! )
But still. . .
:)
On the one hand, the talent pool is incredibly shallow.
On the other hand, those who CAN be found must work under draconian conditions and incredible amounts
of micromanagement by people with no background in media or entertainment whatsoever.
Is there ANY chance any REAL entertainment could survive such a killing field?
I'm not a muscian myself, but I don't think putting down the people on stage is appropriate. Reason being there's probably a lot of untapped talent on that stage. It's not the people on stage who are reasponsible for the music (well, most are not). I bet under different circumstances they could be a lot more inspiring. (i.e. in a different church) twi has talent for suppressing talent and "creativity" (gasp! he said "create"! )
But still. . .
:)
Nice point, Bolshie (Can I call you that?). I pray that every one of these talented musicians get the opportunity and freedom to release their God-given talents in a godly environment.
Those are the same outfits they've been wearing since day one. It's just tired, uninspiring music and presentation. Music and artistic expression in general just doesn't fit into the little "God box" they try to force everything into.
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Listener
vp was the one who championed Wa* Pro*uctio*s from the very beginning. The other trustees and many in the cabinet thought it was a waste of money and time, and were satisfied with the old fashioned piano and organ stuff. Of course, once it became clear that using more contemporary music attracted people to take the class, they changed their tune and acted like they were supporters all along. That was the whole, sole purpose for WP...to make the ministry money.
It was always an uphill battle being a performer/writer/dancer because everything had to be "approved" before it could be used. The restrictions were stifling. Creativity was never important, but cleverness was. You know, like how many different ways can TWI doctrine be expressed in lyrics. vp fancied himself to be quite the authority on music and lyrics, and would frequently "correct" lyrics in such a way that the song became bland and lifeless...just like his life.
And focus on any one individual was avoided at all costs. Singers that were exceptionally talented and could attracted much attention to the ministry, were kept away from becoming too popular. Personally, I think vp was afraid of being upstaged, and was afraid of loosing control...but he sure did love taking credit for the whole shebang! You would not believe the torturous face meltings WP endured at his hands behind the scenes, for the most ridiculous reasons...often because the performance was "off the Word". But he NEVER could explain what that meant!
Joyful Noise was not that joyful. <_<
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Oakspear
mommy, mommy, make it stop!
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Linda Z
I'd rather watch a leaf blow down my street than watch this stuff.
There was only one person who looked like she might actually be enjoying life. They rest all looked like they were afraid to move.
And the dresses are just pitiful. One of the "ensembles" looks like someone pulled down the curtains and just stitched up the sides like a sack.
I can't imagine being on staff and sitting through something like this week after week. It would make Chinese water torture sound like the Boston Pops by comparison.
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excathedra
i'll reveal the mystery
they all look like rosie and donnie
WTF ????
oh except for that man in the middle
who is that ?
--
ps. i am NOT going to ask my kid what he thinks of THIS ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
here's my fave song of his to date
http://youtube.com/watch?v=XgjIZR7vjvU
(i hope this works)
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wrdsandwrks
How depressing! I need to listen to something lively to get that somber tune out of my head.
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Son of the Master
The one on the left looked like Trudy B@in. Could it be her? the winner of the 40th Anniv. Battle of the Bands?
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gladtobeout
That's who it looks like to me.
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TheHighWay
It got far worse in the 90's under LCM. It started with Geer's directive not to do anything doctrinally new, but to review VP's stuff because we had all obviously "missed it" on the basics. People were afraid to do anything new, and certainly nothing "edgy". That carried over to every department at HQ.
The other aspect was that Craig's ego was such that he thought every word out of his own mouth was direct from God. So, instead of letting talented people come up with genuinely motivating and uplifting music, he directed the topics they were to compose music about. And it is my understanding that if you were full time way prod, you had a quota of songs to write. That kind of production-line mentality doesn't usually translate into spiritual inspiration or genuine creativity.
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Listener
Well, Highway, I seem to remember something about "a house divided against itself". Ge*r and loy. What a couple of bozos!
Seems WP, under loys astute iron hand, was been driven into the ground and has never recovered. To bad TWI never noticed Psalms was poetry...God's contribution to the arts. :)
Personally, I think Father likes music!...He sure refers to it often enough in the bible.
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Son of the Master
Yes. The Father does love music. In fact, ALL of the music should be directed in praise and worship to Him. Isnt that why music was invented?
I thought I read in another thread that BG Leonard called TAKIT music the music of Baal.
Thank God for His grace and mercy in our lives for we all have fallen short.
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Listener
Yes, thank God for His grace and mercy in our lives for we all have...uuhhhh....been seated in the heavenlies, set free from bondage, made sons of God Almighty, joint heirs with Jesus Christ....and the list goes on and on!!! THAT's worth singin' and dancin' about!! Dogone it! Fire up them fiddles and banjers and lets have a good old fashioned HOE DOWN for the Lord!! Kick up our heals and thank the Lord!!! YEEHAAAWW!!!
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Through the Looking Glass
I was taught in TWI that music was originally made to appease the devil spirits.... Did anyone else hear this?
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Dot Matrix
Okay, I got the giggles over that Sprawled Out!
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waysider
I'm not so sure I heard it actually "taught" but I remember being "told" about this.
This was supposedly part of why Psalms was written. We used to make up impromtu music and sing the Psalms. Not to appease the devil spirits but because we tried to imagine what they (Psalms) might have been like originally.
Music has charms to soothe the savage breast
To soften rocks or bend a knotted oak----------
from "The Mourning Bride" by Wm. Congreve(17th century)
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Jim
Yeah, and that Bach was possessed, my favorite bit of TWI music BS.
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WordWolf
Genesis 4:4:20-22 (KJV)
"20And Adah bare Jabal: he was the father of such as dwell in tents, and of such as have cattle.
21And his brother's name was Jubal: he was the father of all such as handle the harp and organ.
22And Zillah, she also bare Tubalcain, an instructer of every artificer in brass and iron: and the sister of Tubalcain was Naamah."
The first musician-and the first formal music, QED,
was back in Genesis 4:21.
Without any record of the songs played or sung,
the only basis for making ANY comments on Jubal's music is either
"genuine spiritual suspicion" or "grand bs",
but I repeat myself.
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Thomas Loy Bumgarner
Heck, they should get the Women of Faith singers. Give me Casting Crowns, Newsboys, Rebecca St. James, Don Moen, Bill Gaither, Ted Ferrell, Brian Bliss, Dean Ellenwood, Good Seed, Pressed Down, Paul Vergilio, Johann Sebastian Bach, Paul Manz, Paul Weber, Donald Busarow, anyone but these poor excuses for musicians. Put them out of their misery now!
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Bolshevik
(maybe I misunderstand)
I'm not a muscian myself, but I don't think putting down the people on stage is appropriate. Reason being there's probably a lot of untapped talent on that stage. It's not the people on stage who are reasponsible for the music (well, most are not). I bet under different circumstances they could be a lot more inspiring. (i.e. in a different church) twi has talent for suppressing talent and "creativity" (gasp! he said "create"!
)
But still. . .
:)
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WordWolf
On the one hand, the talent pool is incredibly shallow.
On the other hand, those who CAN be found must work under draconian conditions and incredible amounts
of micromanagement by people with no background in media or entertainment whatsoever.
Is there ANY chance any REAL entertainment could survive such a killing field?
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wrdsandwrks
Nice point, Bolshie (Can I call you that?). I pray that every one of these talented musicians get the opportunity and freedom to release their God-given talents in a godly environment.
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bliss
Speaking of............................
This is how it goes........
Rosie sits in the screening room (whatever its called) and analyzes all the hairstyles. Yup , hair styles.
Ever notice they all have the same haircut???
If someone has long hair, it HAS to be pulled back and smooooooothed out.
Can't have them looking like ''individuals'' up there now.
What really saddens me, is their ''job'' should be to lead ''PRAISE AND WORSHIP" to GOD,
NOT in entertaining us.
Too bad for the TWI crowds....they don't get either.
Every time I hear one, I just wanna.................
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SafariVista
ewwww... Bliss... dang it.. clean up in the green room.... ;)
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Out There
GAWD!!!! Auntie Em,, Auntie Em,,, There's no place like home, there's no place like home..
Save Me Please
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Belle
Can you say, "tent dress"?
Those are the same outfits they've been wearing since day one. It's just tired, uninspiring music and presentation. Music and artistic expression in general just doesn't fit into the little "God box" they try to force everything into.
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