It would seem that he is the Christian man of the spirit that so many moggy wanna bees in twi masqueraded as.
He doesn`t have to be involved with twi be virulent in his critisizms. He has been aware of the horrendous treatment recieved at the hands of vpw/lcm, the disgusting twisting of scriptures to justify their horrific abuse.
Yes, but why him? I would never have heard of him until I found GSC. Though he has been around a lot longer, longer also than GSC's predecessors. Is he for real, though? Are his opinions genuine, or is he just attacking someone not of his religious persuasion? (Sorry, a bit of Waybrain intruding here, y'all know the teaching.)
Yes, but why him? I would never have heard of him until I found GSC. Though he has been around a lot longer, longer also than GSC's predecessors. Is he for real, though? Are his opinions genuine, or is he just attacking someone not of his religious persuasion? (Sorry, a bit of Waybrain intruding here, y'all know the teaching.)
I think Pawtucket knew him from way back when in California. He is another man trying to expose the evils of TWI. What's so bad about that? He's interviewed people, and he has provided some great information IMHO.
I think Pawtucket knew him from way back when in California. He is another man trying to expose the evils of TWI. What's so bad about that? He's interviewed people, and he has provided some great information IMHO.
And --- if you take a look at his site, he has documentation from EARLY (1st, 2nd, etc.,) editions of some of twi's books, that you (and I) don't see in our later copies/ editions of how words were edited out, giving docvic the *authorship* of the premise talked about and effectively naming him the *researcher who discovered all this stuff*.
P.S. --- When I first got a computer 3 or so years ago,
His site was one of the first I ran across, when I looked up twi.
It was empire.net, and NoWayOut, that led me to Greasespot.
Personally, I have found John's articles informative and insightful. I don't really care where he comes from or what his agenda might be... if he is speaking truthfully about what TWI has been trying to keep hidden all these years... God bless him!!!
I'm curious as to why it seems to bother you. :unsure: Or is it just that tone of voice isn't carrying well in the written form? :)
John's site has been invaluable regarding helping many of us come to the realization that TWI isn't what it pretended to be. It's the ONLY place online I was able to find side-by-side proof of the plagiarism of vee pee. Many people had talked about it, but John proved it. He's provided so much information, proof, testimonials and all from an informed, logical and level-headed position that it's hard to argue with much of what he has presented. I thank GOD that men like John Juedes and Paul Allen and Paw have given the time (and that's A LOT of time invested), manpower and money to make it real easy for folks like me to learn the truth about TWI and to have a place to go to for answers, comfort, assurances and healing.
I've always known you on here to be logical and to give people the benefit of the doubt, so I'm sure you'll see what a great man John is and how much he's done to help so many of us in our recovery when you spend some time at his website and listen to his interview with Paw.
John has no personal ax to grind. In his ministry he encountered ex-wayfers damaged by the the experience. His experiences ministering to them led to his website. John has proven himself to be anything but a one-track crusader. He's respectful, even-handed, consistent, and displays qualities foreign to the Way experience: the fruit of the Spirit.
I'm curious as to why it seems to bother you. :unsure: Or is it just that tone of voice isn't carrying well in the written form? :)
I've always known you on here to be logical and to give people the benefit of the doubt, so I'm sure you'll see what a great man John is and how much he's done to help so many of us in our recovery when you spend some time at his website and listen to his interview with Paw.
At first I read Twinky's post like she was angry with JJ. After I looked at it more closely, it occured to me that she is trying to avoid yet another guru.
At least I think that's what she meant in her post.....Am I correct in this assumption Twinky?
I think when I first read John's articles it felt a lot like when I had a 105 degree fever as a kid and my mom had to put me in a tub of ice water. I had a very bad reaction to the cold water but I needed it to prevent brain damage, maybe this is what some people feel when they read Dr. Juedes.
On another thread I said JJ is a Lutheran pastor of the Missouri Synod tradition which is different from my ELCA background(Evangelical Lutheran Church in America). Actually in USA and Canada there are at least 12 different Lutheran factions, compared to over 100 little over centuary ago. Includes WELS(Wisconsin Synod), ELS (Evangelical Lutheran Synod), etc.
Personally, I have found John's articles informative and insightful. I don't really care where he comes from or what his agenda might be... if he is speaking truthfully about what TWI has been trying to keep hidden all these years... God bless him!!!
Personally I always look for agendas I do care about them, It makes a huge difference how you approach a topic and what group you talk with plays a a major roll in the fair and balance of your end product. If you set out to look for bad in something and limit your material to those who also have a desire to show the bad then you have a skewed product in the end.
Yes, Dooj and White Dove, I'm just trying to avoid another guru. Most people have some sort of agenda and I wondered what his was.
I have no dispute with the man, just wondered where he was coming from. He's clearly helped a lot of people here to recover their sound minds. People coming out from TWI certainly did or do need help. God bless him for being one that shines a light on the darkness.
I haven't listened to GS Radio (haven't had facilities till recently) but sounds like it would be worth a visit. Thanks for the pointer, Belle.
Just read a huge sexual abuse story on this guy's website "Marsha" She was my wow sister back in '76. I remember a lot about that time. never knew what happened the night she went out to the motorcoach. it all just got a lil weird. She was definately CHANGED that night. We were all told she was "possessed". Then years later I began to hear all these stories,sexual abuse etc. and i immediately went back in my mind to that year,my first wow year, and all those events. I was convinced that was what happened. Then ,Just today I read her story. my mouth just dropped. and, of course I sent an email to that site. It would be cool if i could get in touch with her and tell her myself how much she taught me and what an example of a great woman of god she was to me,and how my heart goes out to her all these years later, Man this is all a lot to think about!
Exwaycorp- Yes, It is very hard to take all this info in,especially finding out about someone getting hurt like your friend..Someone may know her and bring forth the info you need.Ya never no who come's to this sight..there are many I left behind and hope to hug onefineday..
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rascal
It would seem that he is the Christian man of the spirit that so many moggy wanna bees in twi masqueraded as.
He doesn`t have to be involved with twi be virulent in his critisizms. He has been aware of the horrendous treatment recieved at the hands of vpw/lcm, the disgusting twisting of scriptures to justify their horrific abuse.
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Ham
Here is his answer as I see it, from his website:
http://www.empirenet.com/~messiah7/ltr_quwhycritc.htm
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Twinky
Yes, but why him? I would never have heard of him until I found GSC. Though he has been around a lot longer, longer also than GSC's predecessors. Is he for real, though? Are his opinions genuine, or is he just attacking someone not of his religious persuasion? (Sorry, a bit of Waybrain intruding here, y'all know the teaching.)
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Nottawayfer
I think Pawtucket knew him from way back when in California. He is another man trying to expose the evils of TWI. What's so bad about that? He's interviewed people, and he has provided some great information IMHO.
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excathedra
i don't know his history
i know a lot of what he's posted is true (i'm thinking marcia's story at the moment)
he was really really helpful to me as a kind human being (going back a number of years)
he didn't try to convert me or anything
i think he's a good guy, but of course i'm not joining any church ;)
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nyunknown
I listened to all his radio broadcasts here at the GSC. It all clearcut to me.
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dmiller
And --- if you take a look at his site, he has documentation from EARLY (1st, 2nd, etc.,) editions of some of twi's books, that you (and I) don't see in our later copies/ editions of how words were edited out, giving docvic the *authorship* of the premise talked about and effectively naming him the *researcher who discovered all this stuff*.
P.S. --- When I first got a computer 3 or so years ago,
His site was one of the first I ran across, when I looked up twi.
It was empire.net, and NoWayOut, that led me to Greasespot.
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TOMMYZ
I became aware of his writings in the mid 80's. He wrote against TWI before POP happened.
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johniam
JJ said...
quote: But right now, it appears that God has established me in this ministry.
Gee, maybe if VP had said that instead of snow on the gas pumps then none of us would be here.
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TheHighWay
Personally, I have found John's articles informative and insightful. I don't really care where he comes from or what his agenda might be... if he is speaking truthfully about what TWI has been trying to keep hidden all these years... God bless him!!!
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rascal
Amen High way :)
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Belle
Twinky,
Have you listened to his interviews at GSpot Radio? Or read much on his website?
Ham's link answers your question directly (http://www.empirenet.com/~messiah7/ltr_quwhycritc.htm
Here's another link to his response to the question: You seem to be on a "personal crusade" against The Way. Why?
http://www.empirenet.com/~messiah7/tw_lett...sonal%20crusade
I'm curious as to why it seems to bother you. :unsure: Or is it just that tone of voice isn't carrying well in the written form? :)
John's site has been invaluable regarding helping many of us come to the realization that TWI isn't what it pretended to be. It's the ONLY place online I was able to find side-by-side proof of the plagiarism of vee pee. Many people had talked about it, but John proved it. He's provided so much information, proof, testimonials and all from an informed, logical and level-headed position that it's hard to argue with much of what he has presented. I thank GOD that men like John Juedes and Paul Allen and Paw have given the time (and that's A LOT of time invested), manpower and money to make it real easy for folks like me to learn the truth about TWI and to have a place to go to for answers, comfort, assurances and healing.
I've always known you on here to be logical and to give people the benefit of the doubt, so I'm sure you'll see what a great man John is and how much he's done to help so many of us in our recovery when you spend some time at his website and listen to his interview with Paw.
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TheEvan
John has no personal ax to grind. In his ministry he encountered ex-wayfers damaged by the the experience. His experiences ministering to them led to his website. John has proven himself to be anything but a one-track crusader. He's respectful, even-handed, consistent, and displays qualities foreign to the Way experience: the fruit of the Spirit.
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doojable
At first I read Twinky's post like she was angry with JJ. After I looked at it more closely, it occured to me that she is trying to avoid yet another guru.
At least I think that's what she meant in her post.....Am I correct in this assumption Twinky?
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Ham
For a little more information, look here:
http://empirenet.com/~messiah7/
I think a lot of us have only seen the links to the cult stuff about der vey and momentus on his website.
He's a full time pastor at this church, and appears to be involved in his community. I would agree that the cult research is a small part of his work.
I've labeled a lot of ministers, and ex way as "sycophants".. I can't hang that on Juedes.
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Seth R.
I think when I first read John's articles it felt a lot like when I had a 105 degree fever as a kid and my mom had to put me in a tub of ice water. I had a very bad reaction to the cold water but I needed it to prevent brain damage, maybe this is what some people feel when they read Dr. Juedes.
Seth
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rascal
preventing brain damage
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Thomas Loy Bumgarner
On another thread I said JJ is a Lutheran pastor of the Missouri Synod tradition which is different from my ELCA background(Evangelical Lutheran Church in America). Actually in USA and Canada there are at least 12 different Lutheran factions, compared to over 100 little over centuary ago. Includes WELS(Wisconsin Synod), ELS (Evangelical Lutheran Synod), etc.
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WhiteDove
Personally I always look for agendas I do care about them, It makes a huge difference how you approach a topic and what group you talk with plays a a major roll in the fair and balance of your end product. If you set out to look for bad in something and limit your material to those who also have a desire to show the bad then you have a skewed product in the end.
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Twinky
Thanks, all, for your comments.
Yes, Dooj and White Dove, I'm just trying to avoid another guru. Most people have some sort of agenda and I wondered what his was.
I have no dispute with the man, just wondered where he was coming from. He's clearly helped a lot of people here to recover their sound minds. People coming out from TWI certainly did or do need help. God bless him for being one that shines a light on the darkness.
I haven't listened to GS Radio (haven't had facilities till recently) but sounds like it would be worth a visit. Thanks for the pointer, Belle.
(edited to add the bit about GS Radio)
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exwaycorps
Just read a huge sexual abuse story on this guy's website "Marsha" She was my wow sister back in '76. I remember a lot about that time. never knew what happened the night she went out to the motorcoach. it all just got a lil weird. She was definately CHANGED that night. We were all told she was "possessed". Then years later I began to hear all these stories,sexual abuse etc. and i immediately went back in my mind to that year,my first wow year, and all those events. I was convinced that was what happened. Then ,Just today I read her story. my mouth just dropped. and, of course I sent an email to that site. It would be cool if i could get in touch with her and tell her myself how much she taught me and what an example of a great woman of god she was to me,and how my heart goes out to her all these years later, Man this is all a lot to think about!
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likeaneagle
Exwaycorp- Yes, It is very hard to take all this info in,especially finding out about someone getting hurt like your friend..Someone may know her and bring forth the info you need.Ya never no who come's to this sight..there are many I left behind and hope to hug onefineday..
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pawtucket
Twinky,
John did take the class
John was publishing pamphlets as far back as 1986-88. He does not and has not tried to be anyone's Guru.
I've never known him to be anything less than honest. I've known him for close to 25 years.
He is a pastor at a church, which I believe he's been at for about close to 20 years. He has a wonderful family.
His work has helped many people. And I don't think he has any agenda above or beyond trying to help others get educated on TWI.
Personally, he has helped me long before Waydale and Greasespot existed. I have never seen him ask for anything in return
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excathedra
i agree wholeheartedly
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