It has been years since I have posted but recently something I believe is important for all of us to understand has been made very clear in my mind which was a little hazy before.
I know many Ex Wayers already realize this. The issue I'm referring to is the sin of idolatry which the vast majority of us who were involved in TWI, including me, were guilty of.
I know this may seem like a crazy statement but after analyzing this in my mind for hours I'm convinced that the vast majority of us were truly guilty of idolatry during our time in TWI.
I'm sure this subject has been discussed in previous posts but I haven't personally read them.
It was discussed briefly in an interview with Dr. Juedes I believe.
I also believe this may have been the most serious problem that we were dealing with during our time in TWI, without us even realizing it. "Bigger than the sex/adultry problem" you ask? I think so. The sex problems didn't involve 99.9% of us unlike this idolatry situation.
The mistake we collectively made was to turn the organization called The Way International into our god. It definitely wasn't intended by us rank and file followers at least at the moment we joined TWI, but in time we gradually became servants to the organization and its leaders.
God became secondary. Here is an interesting question for those still involved: Is The Way Jesus Christ or is The Way the organization called The Way International based in New Knoxville, OH?
Never understood why there was so much fuss about VPW. In my mind he was just a man. That "Father in the Word" business drove me nuts. People sobbing when he died--carrying on like it was their dad or child. I guess I had so many problems (due to VPW influences) that I just never got into the adulation of VPW--too busy trying to survive.
Has anybody considered that we made *the word* into an idol?
I mean it seemed like if we read it enough...if we searched it enough....ran verses through our mind enough ..THEN we would be spiritual beings...
Maybe it`s just me....but I feel like I went to the scriptures fro all of my answeres instead of forming that relationship with God.
I mean to me...the word became the end all be all, rather than a guide that led us to God.
HA! Here is where I get to quote Pogo again, "I have seen the enemy and he is us."
The reason that we worshipped the Word was because in reality we were worshipping ourselves. We worshipped our ability to study, honed our research skills, worked on what we wanted to teach...
There was a pervasive belief that if you "dug deep enough and really worked the Word" you could get any answer. In other words, you could understand God. How small a god it that? A god that you can figure out because he's so predictable and limited himself to a book. A god you could command to do things if you invoked the name of his son...
It reminds me of that saying, "I wouldn't join a club that would have me."
I wouldn't worship a god that would let me lead him around by his nose."
I was studying the scriptures to learn formulas and principles/rules to apply so that I could keep satan at bay...so that I could be more than a conquerer, so that I could believe bigger for healings and miracles....so that I could be some kind of super christian.
There was something vital missing from the formula, imo.
Idolatry-quite right. Many of us, I would dare to say that most of us found an idol while in twi. Some idolized the organization, some idolized the bible, some idolized knowledge, some idolized vp, and some idolized whoever their "spiritual leader" was on a more local level. Bottom line however is that most of us were led into this idolotry, it was not what we would have chosen had we been able to see what we were doing. But we had been convinced that this was the way to get to God.
Without a doubt most of us were deprived of our Lord and Savior. As a friend of mine said in another thread:
"Jesus is Lord. All other positions are subject to change."
Unfortunately we usurped his position with all sorts of inadaquit substitutes.
Great post and thread, IamSteve!!!!!! Not long after leaving, I realized that the problem of idolatry was rampant in TWI. I know I sounded like a raving lunatic when I wrote about this to our friends still in the Corps…It's weird – isn't it? How can a belief system that focused on God and the Bible morph into nothing more than a cherished facsimile?
I've often thought of what happened with the bronze serpent God told Moses to make – he was to lift it up – people who wanted to be healed – were to look on it for healing [Numbers 21:6-9; and see the typological reference used by Jesus in John 3:14, 15]. Evidently, the people held onto this bronze serpent and it became an idol to be worshipped. For in II Kings 18:4 we find Hezekiah removed the high places, the idols used in the worship of Baal and Asherah and "…broke in pieces the bronze serpent that Moses had made, for until those days the sons of Israel burned incense to it…"
There's an intriguing aspect to this legacy of the bronze serpent. God meant for it to be a means of healing to those plagued by the fiery serpents in Moses' day – and in New Testament times, served as a model for the salvation that comes by looking to the Cross. Yet, the bronze serpent became much more to the people of that time. Was it the power of association – seeing it as something still linked to God? Perhaps the means of the miracle became their dominant memory instead of the author of the miracle.
Being on the outside, looking back – we all have different opinions of vpw, PFAL and the experience of TWI: What was good/bad, what was of God/the flesh, what was genuine/artificial. Speaking for myself, back then - I had a tendency to overlook anything that would tarnish my idol – so to me it was all of God. Initially TWI helped me come back to the Bible as a means to re-connect with God – but my continued involvement with TWI became a ball and chain that hampered my relationship with God.
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Oakspear
Sorry, I had to break it up intp paragraphs:
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excathedra
nice to see you, iamsteve
in new knoxville, the way is definitely, without a doubt, the organization
paw interviewed this gave dave, i think his name is, who studied the hippie movement etc.
he said something like the church or organization becomes the most important thing, above all else
we see that a lot in life, don't we ?
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gladtobeout
It seemed to me that VP was the biggest god of the people when I was in TWI. People would do anything for him.
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Bolshevik
They still worship the dead guy.
Yep. Sure do.
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gladtobeout
I think the offshoots make sure they continue.
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Ham
Yep. At least some of them.
I heard one guy attribute his stuff to "THE teacher".. I almost threw up on the spot..
probably would have validated their beliefs.. thought I was possessed or something..
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templelady
Never understood why there was so much fuss about VPW. In my mind he was just a man. That "Father in the Word" business drove me nuts. People sobbing when he died--carrying on like it was their dad or child. I guess I had so many problems (due to VPW influences) that I just never got into the adulation of VPW--too busy trying to survive.
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Watered Garden
Something I've thought about in my tiny little mind which remembers a tad bit of my high school algebra.
If A = C and B=C then A=B.
A= God
B=The Word
C= The Way Ministry
VPW said that God's Word i(B) s as much God as God (A) is God.
VPW also said that The Word (B) is The Ministry and The Ministry © is The Word.
Therefore, A=B and B=C, so A must also =C.
Yeah, I would call that idolatry.
WG
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pawtucket
bumping this to the top
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WordWolf
Doesn't seem crazy to me.
Putting anything before God is idolatry.
When I was IN, this seemed like an emerging problem-
with the word of Wierwille being more important than the Word of God,
and twi being a goal in and of itself (serve twi), and not a means TO a goal (serve God).
When I was freshly out, someone else spoke of what he considered
"Wierwillism", adoring vpw rather than God, and elevating vpw to a position
that SHOULD belong solely to Jesus Christ.
Idolatry is a danger with ANYTHING you care about, and with some people
trying to encourage it, this becomes a more present danger.
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cman
Idolatry, as the sin of witchcraft...
About the same I reckon.
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Bumpy
...and "the love of $$$ is the root of all evil"...Idolatry in just another form but always present in bible speak love-ins!
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rascal
Has anybody considered that we made *the word* into an idol?
I mean it seemed like if we read it enough...if we searched it enough....ran verses through our mind enough ..THEN we would be spiritual beings...
Maybe it`s just me....but I feel like I went to the scriptures fro all of my answeres instead of forming that relationship with God.
I mean to me...the word became the end all be all, rather than a guide that led us to God.
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doojable
HA! Here is where I get to quote Pogo again, "I have seen the enemy and he is us."
The reason that we worshipped the Word was because in reality we were worshipping ourselves. We worshipped our ability to study, honed our research skills, worked on what we wanted to teach...
There was a pervasive belief that if you "dug deep enough and really worked the Word" you could get any answer. In other words, you could understand God. How small a god it that? A god that you can figure out because he's so predictable and limited himself to a book. A god you could command to do things if you invoked the name of his son...
It reminds me of that saying, "I wouldn't join a club that would have me."
I wouldn't worship a god that would let me lead him around by his nose."
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rascal
I was studying the scriptures to learn formulas and principles/rules to apply so that I could keep satan at bay...so that I could be more than a conquerer, so that I could believe bigger for healings and miracles....so that I could be some kind of super christian.
There was something vital missing from the formula, imo.
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Oakspear
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cman
lol oaks, it is witchcrafting
sin? well. that'll be done away with, even now
depends...................
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Bramble
I thought it was 'rebellion as the sin of witchcraft'...and isn't any religion/belief system that doesn't follow the Bible God considered idolatry?
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cman
Quite right Bramble.
Somehow I think an idol being worshiped is rebellion though.
But I'm not in to getting too technical about it.
The bible God is an idol imo, when trying to figure it out from the bible only.
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Eyesopen
Idolatry-quite right. Many of us, I would dare to say that most of us found an idol while in twi. Some idolized the organization, some idolized the bible, some idolized knowledge, some idolized vp, and some idolized whoever their "spiritual leader" was on a more local level. Bottom line however is that most of us were led into this idolotry, it was not what we would have chosen had we been able to see what we were doing. But we had been convinced that this was the way to get to God.
Without a doubt most of us were deprived of our Lord and Savior. As a friend of mine said in another thread:
"Jesus is Lord. All other positions are subject to change."
Unfortunately we usurped his position with all sorts of inadaquit substitutes.
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likeaneagle
I agree eyeswideopen..
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T-Bone
Great post and thread, IamSteve!!!!!! Not long after leaving, I realized that the problem of idolatry was rampant in TWI. I know I sounded like a raving lunatic when I wrote about this to our friends still in the Corps…It's weird – isn't it? How can a belief system that focused on God and the Bible morph into nothing more than a cherished facsimile?
I've often thought of what happened with the bronze serpent God told Moses to make – he was to lift it up – people who wanted to be healed – were to look on it for healing [Numbers 21:6-9; and see the typological reference used by Jesus in John 3:14, 15]. Evidently, the people held onto this bronze serpent and it became an idol to be worshipped. For in II Kings 18:4 we find Hezekiah removed the high places, the idols used in the worship of Baal and Asherah and "…broke in pieces the bronze serpent that Moses had made, for until those days the sons of Israel burned incense to it…"
There's an intriguing aspect to this legacy of the bronze serpent. God meant for it to be a means of healing to those plagued by the fiery serpents in Moses' day – and in New Testament times, served as a model for the salvation that comes by looking to the Cross. Yet, the bronze serpent became much more to the people of that time. Was it the power of association – seeing it as something still linked to God? Perhaps the means of the miracle became their dominant memory instead of the author of the miracle.
Being on the outside, looking back – we all have different opinions of vpw, PFAL and the experience of TWI: What was good/bad, what was of God/the flesh, what was genuine/artificial. Speaking for myself, back then - I had a tendency to overlook anything that would tarnish my idol – so to me it was all of God. Initially TWI helped me come back to the Bible as a means to re-connect with God – but my continued involvement with TWI became a ball and chain that hampered my relationship with God.
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Cowgirl
"Has anybody considered that we made *the word* into an idol?
I mean it seemed like if we read it enough...if we searched it enough....ran verses through our mind enough ..THEN we would be spiritual beings...
Maybe it`s just me....but I feel like I went to the scriptures fro all of my answeres instead of forming that relationship with God.
I mean to me...the word became the end all be all, rather than a guide that led us to God."
Rascal..............I couldn't agree with you anymore, I think you just nailed it on the head!!!
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Oakspear
witchcrafting is when witches amke those little doilies and scrapbooks
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