This is not a discussion about Rosie. It is a discussion about the ministry theme. Even if that theme is a new variation of "your ABS at work."
Maybe if we address some issues about how God really is our sufficiency, it will help some innies who are still in, some who are still recovering from TWI-speak, and help them see that there is plenty of Godly sufficiency outside TWI.
Or maybe it will give those perusing this site some ideas to pass on to Rosie so that it isn't just "how to get more money out of the punters."
2Cor 3:5 Our sufficiency if of God.of ittalized,So our sufficiency God,is one way to put it.
The way taught,since the ministry was the word and the word was the ministry,the ony way
to be sufficient ofGod was the way,ie ministry,fellowship,org,follow their rules leadership,"right doctrine"
formula time,A(right believing),the word(ministry version),equals sufficient god like results.
Truth is the way version is lopsided as the "ministry"is pryamid structure,they being the base you giving so you get nothing,
just some kinda wierd sense of satisfaction,while your real need goes unabated,ex. you need a newer car way gets your money,you still got the same ole car,now you should just be thankful to have a car.Law of beieving is not true,it is a better described gudeline,you never tell god anything.Ask and it shall be given.
You do not need a whole structure for God to meet your needs,yes I said needs,the way said you only need one thing at a time,wrong.
I have at any givcen time in a month,mortgage,car payment,cable water power,so I have more than one thing I need done.
Leadershiup?Since when do I need way leadership to be "flush with God?No one is "spiritually responsible to another,that is wayspeak.
Jesus Christ completed the law,we are redeemed.Remember completly,completly ,completly complete?The spiitually part has been done.
The way was,is,good at giving somthing,taking a part back,making you depend on org,then saying it is the word.
My two cents?Rely on God put your whole trust in God he will,has,past tense met what you will,and in the future need.
well.. if one can't squirrelize a thread, what good is it?
I will try to stay on topic..
but any time I hear the themes like "abundance".. "sufficiency" it kinda makes me think fiscally, herr vey had a bad year..
what do they really NEED the money for? Perhaps they anticpate a few more law suits?
I can hear phrases like "you can't out-give God" and the like. So many ambiguous statements. What do they mean? You can't outgive the supposed blessings a person is supposed to receive? Or is it a mere statement of fact? Or maybe its just a litte bit of guilt ridden prompting, that if He sacrificed so much, maybe the wayfer should not complain so much..
They are gonna bring back Acts 5th avenue and encourage folk to buy clothes at yard sales.
Remember being a WOW? Valuable training for hard economic times. I can still remember the loaves of bread we made into pbj for our long trip to the ROA from Montana. PBJ, Water in a plastic jug. MMMM
Kinda depressing, living in your fifties like you did in your twenties when you were working only 20 hours a week.
Living the Word's Way : Making God our Sufficiency
To understand this bit of crusty old boring drivel involves both the theme and RFR.
You see, there is no new light strategically at TWI. RFR is an old English teacher at retirement age, and doesn't have the energy to steer an organization or come up with any genuine strategic plan. However, she still is among the most controlling people ever to live and every single decision will absolutely run through her until she kicks off or some other BOD person manages to implant lips upon behind enough to convince her that they will carry out her will to the T.
They go back to the PFAL collaterals. The scandal tainted anything LCM ever did, and they are far too controlling to ever approve any new research. So what is left? Worshipping the structure, teachings, and writings that brought them there. It's a canning process - inject the preservatives, hang on to the money, and try and preserve the "legacy our Father in the Word" left them. The Word's Way ties in anything they do to the collaterals, which basically are a 10th grade level group of distilled sermons and magazine arcticles by VPW. All their teachings, writings, even the "Adv. Class Special" is all collaterals. They will not approve anything else, and every teaching and writing goes through many levels of editing and approvals before being allowed to be presented.
Now it's all basically making an idol out of VPW - you have the statues, you have the dumbed down teaching, and they can sweep under the carpet all the old sex scandals and say that was just LCM. Sure - make a dumb idol out of the old lecherous plagiarist and worship his sermons and writings. Why? Oh of course because RFR presided over the Publications through a lot of that.
You see, the adversary is a parasite. There is never any genuine growth - he always has to leech of something that is already there. It can look organized down to a "T". It can look polished. It can look positive, controlled, advancing. But THERE IS NOTHING GENUINELY THERE. Even a strategic look - it's OLD.
I used to hear sayings like "It's a big ship and it takes time to turn it", and "It's a world-wide ministry" - all statements overhyping the importance of these little Napolean's positions. And then I'd look to the business world and see companies 1000s of times larger than TWI redefining themselves in a matter of a year or two. All to go where the times are changing. TWI's leadership is physically, mentally, and morally incapable of defining a new strategic direction. They are so encapsulated with protecting their little universes that they will never climb out enough to mount any kind of initiative. And RFR is a lesbian Stalin (how's that for imagery) - trapped by who she is, controlling down to the littlest detail and identifying and killing off anyone with enough gumption to present an idea contrary to hers.
It's a huge hamster wheel that people burn their whole lives running on without ever going anywhere or ever waking up to see they're not going anywhere. "Making God Our Sufficiency?" - sure - God takes care of hamsters on wheels too, even if it's their blood that's sustaining the parasite.
.wtf are you taking, drinking , or smoking??????????..............that is one of the most insane posts i've read in a looooonnnng time!........who are you really????????..............lmao................................peace.
Really? Relative to what? ... I mean, it _could_ be argued that she's RELATIVELY good as compared to Hitler, ... or Stalin, ... or Pol Pot, ... or even Jeffrey Dahmer.
Somehow I don't find that too comforting or edifying. ... but hey, that's just me.
Really? Relative to what? ... I mean, it _could_ be argued that she's RELATIVELY good as compared to Hitler, ... or Stalin, ... or Pol Pot, ... or even Jeffrey Dahmer.
Somehow I don't find that too comforting or edifying. ... but hey, that's just me.
Well, what I meant is, she became President and all, which means she had a lot of pull on peoples lives. People who were already sold out to a lot of doctrines, some of which were pretty crazy. Had she said, "hey, lets all go to churches sometimes, and talk about how Jesus Acted in the gospels" I think she would have lost her position. Instead, she took a more pragmatic approach and toned things down and gravitated away from some of the extreme crazy doctrines without making everyone mad. I'm not saying shes great, just that she didn't lead everyone off a cliff or something.
Well, what I meant is, she became President and all, which means she had a lot of pull on peoples lives. People who were already sold out to a lot of doctrines, some of which were pretty crazy. Had she said, "hey, lets all go to churches sometimes, and talk about how Jesus Acted in the gospels" I think she would have lost her position. Instead, she took a more pragmatic approach and toned things down and gravitated away from some of the extreme crazy doctrines without making everyone mad. I'm not saying shes great, just that she didn't lead everyone off a cliff or something.
Had she said "Hey, let's all go to church and talk about how Jesus acted in the gospels". . . . that might qualify as pulling away from crazy. . . . but, toned down crazy is still crazy. . . .just the quieter more subtle kind. . . . I think that we went off the cliff from the get-go. . . . . . . .
Well, what I meant is, she became President and all, which means she had a lot of pull on peoples lives. People who were already sold out to a lot of doctrines, some of which were pretty crazy. Had she said, "hey, lets all go to churches sometimes, and talk about how Jesus Acted in the gospels" I think she would have lost her position. Instead, she took a more pragmatic approach and toned things down and gravitated away from some of the extreme crazy doctrines without making everyone mad. I'm not saying shes great, just that she didn't lead everyone off a cliff or something.
[disclaimer: I don't know RR - never met her - never plan to] The structure of TWI doesn't take into account anyone's "pull" other than the people who have the power to put people in RR's position. This dynamic was made obvious in LCM's ascension.
The "crazy" part about anyone from TWI going to a church to talk about how Jesus acted in the gospels is that:
1. TWI cherry picks from the gospels and when push comes to shove, believes they are strictly "for our learning." Therefore...
2. TWI hasn't a clue about how Jesus acted, or if it does, chooses to ignore whatever doesn't work with its doctrine.
Furthermore, TWI's entire "structure" is not based on the corporate worship culture, it's more about small groups, which ironically are led like mega churches where all the off-site campuses are linked through video hookup.
Actually, she continues to lead everyone off a cliff, only it's far more subtle than LCM. The contrast is in the method. FWIW, LCM didn't ever make you wonder where he stood on stuff. RR strikes me as being a heck of a poker player.
Well, what I meant is, she became President and all, which means she had a lot of pull on peoples lives. People who were already sold out to a lot of doctrines, some of which were pretty crazy. Had she said, "hey, lets all go to churches sometimes, and talk about how Jesus Acted in the gospels" I think she would have lost her position. Instead, she took a more pragmatic approach and toned things down and gravitated away from some of the extreme crazy doctrines without making everyone mad. I'm not saying shes great, just that she didn't lead everyone off a cliff or something.
She maintains her position by eliminating any dissenting opinion. You know, kind of like Stalin and Lenin did? It's not an elected office that people can vote her out of. She brought in Pl@t1g because he kissed booty well, then demoted him later. She has a bobblehead crew in office now. She cans, demotes, marks and avoids, defames and slanders those she doesn't like and keeps in lock-step those that comply.
"Toning things down" - interesting there. She retained 100% of the structure of the foundational class from when LCM refilmed it. Yet she eliminated "crazy" doctrine. Now all the earthquake and methane gas stuff was a little less substantiated. But the interesting part she removed was all references to homosexuality in the class. Now Craig's rants on it were out of line, and closing with Romans 1 was not congruent. But she removed all that stuff, including any reference to it in the Eve teaching. That certainly turned the spotlight off her and Donna, and others like that around. She won't post her picture on TWI's website for fear of someone from her background "discovering" her.
Music and productions she's taken from being relatively decent Christian music to elevator music drivel that is openly mocked on The Soup. Publications the same. Teachings the same. Advances the same. Anything she touches and "organizes" basically has the life sucked out of it and is left a structured shell. She has visions of bringing all the Corps in who trained under previous leaders to see "the heart of HQ". No leaders ever go out from HQ to help develop work anywhere. Only on secretive missions.
In many ways she is much worse than either of her predecessors. With them you could see the problems right out front.
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*they* say *she(?)* had children.. but sorry, I haven't met or seen them so as to evaluate the statement. 1. Do they remotely even resemble *her(?)*..? 2. Is there anyone who can attest to the fa
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Twinky
Wow. Some things really go off track quickly.
This is not a discussion about Rosie. It is a discussion about the ministry theme. Even if that theme is a new variation of "your ABS at work."
Maybe if we address some issues about how God really is our sufficiency, it will help some innies who are still in, some who are still recovering from TWI-speak, and help them see that there is plenty of Godly sufficiency outside TWI.
Or maybe it will give those perusing this site some ideas to pass on to Rosie so that it isn't just "how to get more money out of the punters."
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frank123lol
2Cor 3:5 Our sufficiency if of God.of ittalized,So our sufficiency God,is one way to put it.
The way taught,since the ministry was the word and the word was the ministry,the ony way
to be sufficient ofGod was the way,ie ministry,fellowship,org,follow their rules leadership,"right doctrine"
formula time,A(right believing),the word(ministry version),equals sufficient god like results.
Truth is the way version is lopsided as the "ministry"is pryamid structure,they being the base you giving so you get nothing,
just some kinda wierd sense of satisfaction,while your real need goes unabated,ex. you need a newer car way gets your money,you still got the same ole car,now you should just be thankful to have a car.Law of beieving is not true,it is a better described gudeline,you never tell god anything.Ask and it shall be given.
You do not need a whole structure for God to meet your needs,yes I said needs,the way said you only need one thing at a time,wrong.
I have at any givcen time in a month,mortgage,car payment,cable water power,so I have more than one thing I need done.
Leadershiup?Since when do I need way leadership to be "flush with God?No one is "spiritually responsible to another,that is wayspeak.
Jesus Christ completed the law,we are redeemed.Remember completly,completly ,completly complete?The spiitually part has been done.
The way was,is,good at giving somthing,taking a part back,making you depend on org,then saying it is the word.
My two cents?Rely on God put your whole trust in God he will,has,past tense met what you will,and in the future need.
God trully is are all in all.
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Oakspear
Well, apparently it's a discussion about RFR now! You can't control these things!
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Shellon
Q-tip....
LOLOLOLOL
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Ham
well.. if one can't squirrelize a thread, what good is it?
I will try to stay on topic..
but any time I hear the themes like "abundance".. "sufficiency" it kinda makes me think fiscally, herr vey had a bad year..
what do they really NEED the money for? Perhaps they anticpate a few more law suits?
I can hear phrases like "you can't out-give God" and the like. So many ambiguous statements. What do they mean? You can't outgive the supposed blessings a person is supposed to receive? Or is it a mere statement of fact? Or maybe its just a litte bit of guilt ridden prompting, that if He sacrificed so much, maybe the wayfer should not complain so much..
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waysider
Maybe they are talking about The Word's Way (Studies in Abundant Living/Vol. III)
That's the one with 4 crucified/ body, soul, spirit/ genealogy of Jesus Christ/ the unforgivable sin/ the cry of triumph, etc.
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cheranne
Yeah ...Right more like IN Sufficient Biblical Research!
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frank123lol
but any time I hear the themes like "abundance".. "sufficiency" it kinda makes me think fiscally, herr vey had a bad year..
With people leaving..abs must be down....gotta promote the tithe doth still provide...
A suker born every minute..the brain deads still in must have memory loss.
As they are suckers all the time,every time...bleed em dry...
Look people(wayers)if ya do not put in some sweat equaity on your own you will hav e nothing..
Dam# sure the way will not provide they will say that is gods problem,you aint believin big enough.
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Bolshevik
he he he
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Bramble
They are gonna bring back Acts 5th avenue and encourage folk to buy clothes at yard sales.
Remember being a WOW? Valuable training for hard economic times. I can still remember the loaves of bread we made into pbj for our long trip to the ROA from Montana. PBJ, Water in a plastic jug. MMMM
Kinda depressing, living in your fifties like you did in your twenties when you were working only 20 hours a week.
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waysider
Ahhh
Acts 5th Ave.
We did that in FLO, too.
I think we had a different name for it, though.
Should have called it Philemon's Basement.
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taxicab
Sounds incredibly BORING!!! Been there, done that, like a million times. I rather read "Twili
ght" a few more times and I hated that book.
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chockfull
Living the Word's Way : Making God our Sufficiency
To understand this bit of crusty old boring drivel involves both the theme and RFR.
You see, there is no new light strategically at TWI. RFR is an old English teacher at retirement age, and doesn't have the energy to steer an organization or come up with any genuine strategic plan. However, she still is among the most controlling people ever to live and every single decision will absolutely run through her until she kicks off or some other BOD person manages to implant lips upon behind enough to convince her that they will carry out her will to the T.
They go back to the PFAL collaterals. The scandal tainted anything LCM ever did, and they are far too controlling to ever approve any new research. So what is left? Worshipping the structure, teachings, and writings that brought them there. It's a canning process - inject the preservatives, hang on to the money, and try and preserve the "legacy our Father in the Word" left them. The Word's Way ties in anything they do to the collaterals, which basically are a 10th grade level group of distilled sermons and magazine arcticles by VPW. All their teachings, writings, even the "Adv. Class Special" is all collaterals. They will not approve anything else, and every teaching and writing goes through many levels of editing and approvals before being allowed to be presented.
Now it's all basically making an idol out of VPW - you have the statues, you have the dumbed down teaching, and they can sweep under the carpet all the old sex scandals and say that was just LCM. Sure - make a dumb idol out of the old lecherous plagiarist and worship his sermons and writings. Why? Oh of course because RFR presided over the Publications through a lot of that.
You see, the adversary is a parasite. There is never any genuine growth - he always has to leech of something that is already there. It can look organized down to a "T". It can look polished. It can look positive, controlled, advancing. But THERE IS NOTHING GENUINELY THERE. Even a strategic look - it's OLD.
I used to hear sayings like "It's a big ship and it takes time to turn it", and "It's a world-wide ministry" - all statements overhyping the importance of these little Napolean's positions. And then I'd look to the business world and see companies 1000s of times larger than TWI redefining themselves in a matter of a year or two. All to go where the times are changing. TWI's leadership is physically, mentally, and morally incapable of defining a new strategic direction. They are so encapsulated with protecting their little universes that they will never climb out enough to mount any kind of initiative. And RFR is a lesbian Stalin (how's that for imagery) - trapped by who she is, controlling down to the littlest detail and identifying and killing off anyone with enough gumption to present an idea contrary to hers.
It's a huge hamster wheel that people burn their whole lives running on without ever going anywhere or ever waking up to see they're not going anywhere. "Making God Our Sufficiency?" - sure - God takes care of hamsters on wheels too, even if it's their blood that's sustaining the parasite.
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TheHighWay
NO, NO, NO, NO, NO... this cannot be right... I don't see the word "Prevailing" anywhere!!!!
Bolshevik... LOVE the reference!!
:biglaugh: 
:biglaugh: 
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Twinky
What, Highway? You think it should be "Prevailing upon God's Sufficiency"?
I don't see many folks from the Cafe volunteering to partake in this tremendous new year of outreach.
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TheHighWay
Well, isn't this the first slogan (urr... um, theme) they've had in almost twenty years that hasn't had the word "PREVAILING" in it?
How about, "Prevailing the Word's Way : God is our Sufficiency" --- that sounds so much more appropriately wayspeak to my ears, lol.
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Twinky
On the theme of the theme...TWI runs its themes in 10 year cycles.
"Living the Word's Way" is a 10-year theme.
"Making God our Sufficiency" is the 1-year theme.
You know what really would be a new theme?
"The excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus our Lord" (Phil 3:8)
What if they really did start teaching something about who Christ Jesus our Lord actually is?
About his lifestyle - which wasn't all confrontation, as LCM would have us think?
About what he is doing today - in his church?
About building a relationship with him - our big brother?
Now that ... might be worth paying attention to. (Of course, believing what they said might be another matter, LOL.)
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waysider
Well, if it really is based on Volume III of Studies in Abundant Living, it would certainly be ironic.
The contents of that particular book have been weighed in the GSC balance and found to be dreadfully lacking.
Hey, Innies!
Pick any chapter in that book and do a search here at GSC.
I'll be sure to buy you your first cup of java at GSC when you bail out of that sinking ship called The Way International.
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DontWorryBeHappy
dearest bishop!....................
.wtf are you taking, drinking , or smoking??????????..............that is one of the most insane posts i've read in a looooonnnng time!........who are you really????????..............lmao................................peace.
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GarthP2000
Really? Relative to what? ... I mean, it _could_ be argued that she's RELATIVELY good as compared to Hitler, ... or Stalin, ... or Pol Pot, ... or even Jeffrey Dahmer.
Somehow I don't find that too comforting or edifying.
... but hey, that's just me.
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Bishop
Well, what I meant is, she became President and all, which means she had a lot of pull on peoples lives. People who were already sold out to a lot of doctrines, some of which were pretty crazy. Had she said, "hey, lets all go to churches sometimes, and talk about how Jesus Acted in the gospels" I think she would have lost her position. Instead, she took a more pragmatic approach and toned things down and gravitated away from some of the extreme crazy doctrines without making everyone mad. I'm not saying shes great, just that she didn't lead everyone off a cliff or something.
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geisha779
Had she said "Hey, let's all go to church and talk about how Jesus acted in the gospels". . . . that might qualify as pulling away from crazy. . . . but, toned down crazy is still crazy. . . .just the quieter more subtle kind. . . . I think that we went off the cliff from the get-go. . . . . . . .
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Tzaia
[disclaimer: I don't know RR - never met her - never plan to] The structure of TWI doesn't take into account anyone's "pull" other than the people who have the power to put people in RR's position. This dynamic was made obvious in LCM's ascension.
The "crazy" part about anyone from TWI going to a church to talk about how Jesus acted in the gospels is that:
1. TWI cherry picks from the gospels and when push comes to shove, believes they are strictly "for our learning." Therefore...
2. TWI hasn't a clue about how Jesus acted, or if it does, chooses to ignore whatever doesn't work with its doctrine.
Furthermore, TWI's entire "structure" is not based on the corporate worship culture, it's more about small groups, which ironically are led like mega churches where all the off-site campuses are linked through video hookup.
Actually, she continues to lead everyone off a cliff, only it's far more subtle than LCM. The contrast is in the method. FWIW, LCM didn't ever make you wonder where he stood on stuff. RR strikes me as being a heck of a poker player.
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chockfull
She maintains her position by eliminating any dissenting opinion. You know, kind of like Stalin and Lenin did? It's not an elected office that people can vote her out of. She brought in Pl@t1g because he kissed booty well, then demoted him later. She has a bobblehead crew in office now. She cans, demotes, marks and avoids, defames and slanders those she doesn't like and keeps in lock-step those that comply.
"Toning things down" - interesting there. She retained 100% of the structure of the foundational class from when LCM refilmed it. Yet she eliminated "crazy" doctrine. Now all the earthquake and methane gas stuff was a little less substantiated. But the interesting part she removed was all references to homosexuality in the class. Now Craig's rants on it were out of line, and closing with Romans 1 was not congruent. But she removed all that stuff, including any reference to it in the Eve teaching. That certainly turned the spotlight off her and Donna, and others like that around. She won't post her picture on TWI's website for fear of someone from her background "discovering" her.
Music and productions she's taken from being relatively decent Christian music to elevator music drivel that is openly mocked on The Soup. Publications the same. Teachings the same. Advances the same. Anything she touches and "organizes" basically has the life sucked out of it and is left a structured shell. She has visions of bringing all the Corps in who trained under previous leaders to see "the heart of HQ". No leaders ever go out from HQ to help develop work anywhere. Only on secretive missions.
In many ways she is much worse than either of her predecessors. With them you could see the problems right out front.
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