The First Red Flag

[skyrider]

Over the weekend, someone asked me....."What was the first red flag you saw in twi that really got your attention? At the time of our conversation, I cited a couple of incidents on my WOW year and how leadership handled it.

In further pondering this question, I now would say that the first red flag that rocked my core sense of twi was.....in 1978, at a corps night and how wierwille verbally assaulted a corps grad. For those unfamiliar with corps night "teachings".....it is an in-house corps teaching where, oftentimes, corps behavior or dissent are FOCAL POINTS of what is *off the word.* In these meetings, naming names and berating patterns of behavior are commonplace. Wierwille labeled those who dissented and/or were exiting twi as copouts.

THAT was my first red flag.

For some reason, it ALWAYS disturbed me. Deep down, I felt that it was abusive and wrong. Why did wierwille have to publically castigate the individual is such a vulgar manner? Why is this acceptable? Is this even Christian?

For me, the following article delves into THE FIRST RED FLAG that so disturbed me.

I posted this a few years ago on this link.....Untoward Secrecy

When Does a Religion Become a Cult?

By MITCH HOROWITZ

America has probably supplied the world with more new religions than any other nation. Since the first half of the 19th century, the country's atmosphere of religious experimentation has produced dozens of movements, from Mormonism to a wide range of nature-based practices grouped under the name Wicca.

By 1970 the religious scholar Jacob Needleman popularized the term "New Religious Movements" (NRM) to classify the new faiths, or variants of old ones, that were being embraced by the Woodstock generation. But how do we tell when a religious movement ceases to be novel or unusual and becomes a cult?

It's a question with a long history in this country. The controversy involving Hollywood writer-director Paul Haggis is only its most recent occurrence. Mr. Haggis left the Church of Scientology and has accused it of abusive practices, including demands that members disconnect from their families, which the church vigorously denies.

To use the term cult too casually risks tarring the merely unconventional, for which America has long been a safe harbor. In the early 19th century, the "Burned-over District" of central New York state—so named for the religious passions of those who settled there following the Revolutionary War—gave rise to a wave of new movements, including Mormonism, Seventh-Day Adventism and Spiritualism (or talking to the dead). It was an era, as historian Sydney E. Ahlstrom wrote, when "Farmers became theologians, offbeat village youths became bishops, odd girls became prophets."

When the California Gold Rush of 1849 enticed settlers westward, the nation's passion for religious novelty moved with them. By the early 20th century, sunny California had replaced New York as America's laboratory for avant-garde spirituality. Without the weight of tradition and the ecclesiastical structures that bring some predictability to congregational life, some movements were characterized by a make-it-up-as-you-go approach that ultimately came to redefine people, money and propriety as movable parts intended to benefit the organization.

Many academics and observers of cult phenomena, such as psychologist Philip G. Zimbardo of Stanford, agree on four criteria to define a cult. The first is behavior control, i.e., monitoring of where you go and what you do. The second is information control, such as discouraging members from reading criticism of the group. The third is thought control, placing sharp limits on doctrinal questioning. The fourth is emotional control—using humiliation or guilt. Yet at times these traits can also be detected within mainstream faiths. So I would add two more categories: financial control and extreme leadership.

Financial control translates into levying ruinous dues or fees, or effectively hiring members and placing them on stipends or sales quotas. Consider the once-familiar image of Hare Krishna devotees selling books in airports. Or a friend of mine—today a respected officer with a nonprofit organization—who recalls how his departure from the Rev. Sun Myung Moon's Unification Church was complicated by the problem of a massive hole in his résumé, reflecting the years he had financially committed himself to the church.

Problems with extremist leadership can be more difficult to spot. The most tragic cult of the last century was the Rev. Jim Jones's Peoples Temple, which ended with mass murder and suicide in the jungles of Guyana in 1978. Only a few early observers understood Jones as dangerously erratic. Known for his racially diverse San Francisco congregation, Jones was widely feted on the local political scene in the 1970s. He was not some West Coast New Ager gone bad. He emerged instead from the mainstream Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) pulpit, which sometimes lent a reassuringly Middle-American tone to his sermons.

Yet every coercive religious group harbors one telltale trait: untoward secrecy. As opposed to a cult, a religious culture ought to be as simple to enter or exit, for members or observers, as any free nation. Members should experience no impediment to relationships, ideas or travel, and the group's finances should be reasonably transparent. Its doctrine need not be conventional—but it should be knowable to outsiders. Absent those qualities, an unorthodox religion can descend into something darker.

[skyrider]

"Yet every coercive religious group harbors one telltale trait: untoward secrecy. As opposed to a cult, a religious culture ought to be as simple to enter OR EXIT, for members or observers, as any free nation. Members should experience no impediment to relationships, ideas or travel, and the group's finances should be reasonably transparent. Its doctrine need not be conventional—but it should be knowable to outsiders. Absent those qualities, an unorthodox religion can descend into something darker."

Why would wierwille BLAST AWAY at any corps grad who expressed concern or dismay of twi's direction?

Why gave veepee the right to verbally assault such an individual? Did he meet with this corps grad

and talk thru the controversial issues? Why the name-calling?

How does this character assassination technique advance the corps training? Shouldn't this kind of thing

be handled in private......or is there other motives at work here?

Was I the only one who was deeply disturbed by this heavy-handed corps technique?

[waysider]

Looking back, there are three distinct red flags that stand out for me.

I took *the class* in 1972. For the next three years I became very active at the local level with twig, branch, classes and so on. Everything I did was centered on The Way, 7 days a week. After the first year, I took the Advanced Class. This was a doctrinal red flag for me. The class seemed like a bunch of made up mumbo-jumbo and left me feeling immensely depressed that I just wasn't *seeing* all the great spiritual truths everyone else was supposedly seeing. I sucked it up and soldiered on....Red Flag #1

After about 3 years of non-stop ministry activity, many of the locals began leaving for WOW and Way Corp. I was approached with the prospect of going into a relatively new, 2 year, in-residence Limb program called FellowLaborers. It was supposed to be similar to the Way Corps in concept. The basic premise was to do an in-depth study of Acts and pattern our daily lifestyle after the first century church. After graduation, we were to return to our hometowns as better equipped leaders. Upon arrival I immediately encountered the participants who had just completed their first year. They were living a lifestyle that was completely self centered. It was every man for himself. There was lots of freeloading and manipulation of the more generous participants. I was rather astounded that no one else seemed to be phased by this. It wasn't even remotely like what I had been so involved in for the previous 3 years. And, this was only the first day.... Red Flag #2.

Red flag number 3 came at Christmas break, my first year in FellowLaborers. It so happened that the Way Corps was on break at the same time. Many of us F.L. and W.C. got together several times over break. I detected an extreme sense of elitism regarding the difference between the 2 programs. The Way Corps people were all fired up about how they had been learning all sorts of special keys to living a more abundant life such as....using smaller amounts of toothpaste, looking for free deals on clothing and personal supplies, how to stretch a dollar until it screams "Uncle!". This is the abundant life??? They must be missing something in the lessons, I thought at first, until I realized they were serious. Well, I could have continued living on the fringes of hippiedom if that's all there is to it. Have I been wasting my time and energy these past 3 years? Again, I soldiered on, thinking it must be me who was missing the point.....Red Flag #3.

[excathedra]

FIRST RED FLAG. about to graduate from PFAL. being asked to come over to the all girls college way home to have privilege of meeting THE TEACHER in the flesh. well, in the flesh turned out to be walking by the bathroom -- door open -- and seeing this bastud naked and blow drying his hair, having him turn toward me full monty and SMILING

jesus mary and joseph how messed up was I ?????????????????

my undersepherder leader KL told me something about the flesh means nothing to him he is so spiritual whatever

the joke is on me. i feel now i deserve everthing i got. i was raised better.

i will clarify. i was raised better by my mom. but i was sexually molested by family males, which my mom did not know about at the time

[GeorgeStGeorge]

i feel now i deserve everthing i got.

NO.

You were abused. Could you have made better choices? Probably. But you DIDN'T desrve it.

George

[Steve Lortz]

George is right excathedra!

Love,

Steve

[waysider]

....So the outsider looks at this thread and wonders, "Why on earth did you ignore all these red flags?". Part of the answer lies in the PFAL class, itself, where we were taught, in session #5, not to give thoughtful consideration to anything that contradicts what we had been taught. Instead, we were supposed to just "STAND!" and never budge. This was reinforced in classes like Dealing With The Adversary and Renewed Mind, where we were taught specific techniques for resisting critical analysis.

In addition, there was extreme peer pressure to think, speak and act like everyone else in the group. As we progressed further into the depths of involvement, a new element was added. Dire consequences would supposedly befall us or our loved ones if ever we should leave.

It didn't take so very long to learn the best course of action was, seemingly, to ignore all warnings.

[Kit Sober]

So sorry Excathedra

The first red flag that meant something was when I got a copy of pfal and really listened to it without the blinders of utmost devotion and heard the yelling and ugliness.

There were many I ignored, such as having so little family time for my real family, being isolated from my precious family that wasn't in twi, being yelled at (when Bible clearly speaks of us as sheep, who need a gentle hand), etc. etc.

I couldn't really see anything until after I was kicked out. Oh how I thank the Lord again and again for Trashnet, WayDale, and this here Greasespot Café.!!!!!

Edited March 16, 2014 by Kit Sober

[Rocky]

Was I the only one who was deeply disturbed by this heavy-handed corps technique?

No. Geez, Martindale made a habit of berating corps trainees too.

But I was the target of one or more of wierwille's verbal tirades when he didn't get instant satisfaction on an A/V technical set up.

Packing up and leaving then and there, didn't really occur to me yet as a result of the first couple of red flags.

Interim year was another story. For another late night story.

Rejoice. We're free from that .... place (TFP). :)

[excathedra]

i humbly thank you

[Kit Sober]

NO.

You were abused. Could you have made better choices? Probably. But you DIDN'T desrve it.

George

(I was going to say a joke and say we did deserve it, but that is too ugly a statement to be funny.)

[excathedra]

But I was the target of one or more of wierwille's verbal tirades when he didn't get instant satisfaction on an A/V technical set up.

the old fart pig wanted instant satisfaction on more than A/V setup

[Twinky]

Too many red flags in PFAL to count!! But I gave the man the benefit of the doubt, knowing that men don't know everything ... and he's American ... therefore knowing how old English works might not be quite his thing. Certainly his knowledge of grammar was appalling.

... little did I know that VPW and through him TWI did think they know everything. Even in the face of experts.

Here's a red flag. The Lord's Prayer. As I recall, there was one of those Listen with Understanding or Reading with a Purpose questions at the end of that video section - "Why can we not pray this prayer?" Answer: we can't pray to be forgiven as we forgive others - because we're already forgiven.

Basically that mocks the rest of the prayer and discourages the faithful from saying it, remembering it, bringing it to mind, bringing the order of the prayer to mind by recognising God's awesomeness first and foremost. It would have been better if he'd decided to change the line (give it a literal according to meaning, or some such) that says, "Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive them that trespass against us," to say "And having freely forgiven us our trespasses, help us just as freely to forgive them that trespass against us." But that might have raised too many red flags for other people. So - just diss the whole prayer and make people forget it.

I've just started reading a book by RT Kendall entitled "The Lord's Prayer" wherein he examines the prayer line by line, word by word, thought by thought, to endeavour to build a deeper spiritual understanding amongst those who pray this prayer. Right in his introductory chapter, RT Kendall, quoting Dr Martyn Lloyd-Jones, states: "It is spiritual pride, if not arrogance, to refuse to pray the Lord's Prayer with others." That smote me in the heart.

Spiritual pride ... arrogance ... typifying TWI and passing on, to this day, through too many of its adherents. :CUSSING:/>

[WordWolf]

(snip)

Spiritual pride ... arrogance ... typifying TWI and passing on, to this day, through too many of its adherents. :CUSSING:/>/>

The actual life of Jesus is written in the Gospels- the accounts of the life

of the man we're supposed to be adherents of if we ARE Christians.

vpw soft-pedaled the Gospels and pushed the Epistles.

Someone introduced to twi after vpw was dead and right around when lcm was drawing his line in the sand

heard lcm going off in his brash, shouting fashion, and commented.

He talked about when Jesus washed the feet of his disciples, and said they should do the same.

He said that, if lcm could get himself to where he could wash the feet of the disciples,

he'd be all right.

I've often thought about how that can apply, to some degree, to everyone who ever had time in twi.

Sometimes I thought of it more literally in terms of washing off sneakers people were wearing,

but I've also thought about things like washing people's toilets, stepping forward to help the

homeless, the poor and hungry. A real Christian is supposed to have compassion- like Jesus did/does-

and the actions of the compassionate seem diametrically opposed to the actions of the

arrogant and prideful. Some of us could use a little time now and again doing the acts of the

compassionate. Even if one isn't compassionate while doing it, I think there's a trickle-up

effect where one starts to develop compassion while there in the middle of things.

Hm.

Compassion can be trained and grown.

[Twinky]

I've often thought about how that can apply, to some degree, to everyone who ever had time in twi.

Sometimes I thought of it more literally in terms of washing off sneakers people were wearing,

but I've also thought about things like washing people's toilets, stepping forward to help the

homeless, the poor and hungry.

Sounds just like how I spend my time. Washing people, their feet, their clothes, their houses. Looking out for what might make their lives more bearable.

That's what I get paid for, very modestly - I'm self-employed. Many of my clients are very elderly.

And that's how I spend time doing voluntary work with three different organisations, two Christian (check out Street Pastors), and one secular (but there are a lot of compassionate people, some Christians, also involved with that one.)

Compassion can be trained and grown.

Think I have to agree with you on that, WW.

What it takes, really, is thinking about other people and what they might need to make their lives easier.

[justloafing]

Uhmmmmm, When I was first witnessed to. So many things all along that strange journey. Common sense told me to stay away. Common sense all the way from pfal and into the corps screamed "get out". I just did not listen to that "quiet voice" that one day screamed at me to "get out".

[excathedra]

well at least you did finally listen

[T-Bone]

Interesting thread…and I'm a little embarrassed to say I was hard pressed to identify the first red flag in my TWI experience – probably because it seems like I swallowed the whole thing hook, line and sinker - right off the bat! But in retrospect I think I can identify something instrumental in putting me in a "coma" for so many years – oblivious to any red flags – which I will mention further down.

I didn't come out of the "coma" until I was in the Family Corps when all the "Passing of the Patriarch" commotion became like a shock-induced-consciousness thing; then red flags began popping up all over my TWI timeline – past and present (present = while still in TWI, in residence). Perhaps one huge red flag was a recurring thought that the reason TWI appeared to be coming apart at the seams was because it was based on a man - who is now dead. Holy cow! you mean VP is not God?! Why there ought to be a book.

Ok – so to answer your question – I first noticed red flags when I was in the corps. The rest of my post is just my typical rant.

== == == ==

In light of the article by Horowitz that Skyrider referenced – I think the first of the criteria defining a cult – behavior control - really zings me to the bone! I don't know – was something subliminally planted in my head by PFAL so that I would be the one to alter my behavior – to become malleable – easy for someone to control.

Maybe it's akin to software viruses. PFAL infects your "processor". I've heard in the biological world viruses do not reproduce. They get inside the host cell and mix with the cell's genetic instructions – so now its new instruction is basically "make more of me" (the virus – yikes!). It's a freakin' circle! A damn self-devouring circle of nonsense. All your questions will be answered in PFAL. Oh they weren't – then take PFAL again. Take the advanced class on PFAL, then work the PFAL material yourself…ad infinitum…like the answer Ralphie decrypted from the secret decoder ring "Take more PFAL". My life was stuck inside a PFAL commercial for 12 years.

Anyway… back to rendering someone unconsciousness…It was an act of self-betrayal that helped put me in a comatose state. Shortly after I took PFAL I wanted to maintain this feeling of "spiritual re-birth" or cult high. Out with my old man ways! So I took all my sketch books from art school, poems and songs I had written and hauled them off to a dumpster behind some restaurant at Green Acres Shopping Mall . After I turned off all my friends who got tired of listening to how PFAL changed my life – I kept to just seeing people in TWI.

Anything TWI promoted that promised growth sounded good to me. So I decided to go WOW. To lighten up for the trip and to release more "old man fetters" I gave my customized Fender Jazz Bass and Fender Amp to a local believer.

I think most folks would say "if I had a kid who got rid of all that so quickly – there must be something wrong with that boy." Yeah, that would be a big red flag to parents. If the "Almost Famous" movie could mention a second message of parental guidance to kids besides "don't do drugs" I think it should be "don't join cults".

...maybe add don't give away your customized bass

...don't get rid of anything you've created

....don't cut off true friends

...don't keep adding to this list...oops ok, i'll stop...

[Allan]

The first red flag was going into family corps and seeing adultery take place on campus that was 'looked over' by leadership....exit...stage right !

Actually, I wonder if it was more a matter of so many of them having been in 'the Word' for so long that they...just didn't really care anymore ?

[Rocky]

I think most folks would say "if I had a kid who got rid of all that so quickly – there must be something wrong with that boy." Yeah, that would be a big red flag to parents. If the "Almost Famous" movie could mention a second message of parental guidance to kids besides "don't do drugs" I think it should be "don't join cults".

A wonderful idea.

[outandabout]

Interesting thread…and I'm a little embarrassed to say I was hard pressed to identify the first red flag in my TWI experience – probably because it seems like I swallowed the whole thing hook, line and sinker - right off the bat! But in retrospect I think I can identify something instrumental in putting me in a "coma" for so many years – oblivious to any red flags – which I will mention further down.

I didn't come out of the "coma" until I was in the Family Corps when all the "Passing of the Patriarch" commotion became like a shock-induced-consciousness thing; then red flags began popping up all over my TWI timeline – past and present (present = while still in TWI, in residence). Perhaps one huge red flag was a recurring thought that the reason TWI appeared to be coming apart at the seams was because it was based on a man - who is now dead. Holy cow! you mean VP is not God?! Why there ought to be a book.

Ok – so to answer your question – I first noticed red flags when I was in the corps. The rest of my post is just my typical rant.

== == == ==

In light of the article by Horowitz that Skyrider referenced – I think the first of the criteria defining a cult – behavior control - really zings me to the bone! I don't know – was something subliminally planted in my head by PFAL so that I would be the one to alter my behavior – to become malleable – easy for someone to control.

Maybe it's akin to software viruses. PFAL infects your "processor". I've heard in the biological world viruses do not reproduce. They get inside the host cell and mix with the cell's genetic instructions – so now its new instruction is basically "make more of me" (the virus – yikes!). It's a freakin' circle! A damn self-devouring circle of nonsense. All your questions will be answered in PFAL. Oh they weren't – then take PFAL again. Take the advanced class on PFAL, then work the PFAL material yourself…ad infinitum…like the answer Ralphie decrypted from the secret decoder ring "Take more PFAL". My life was stuck inside a PFAL commercial for 12 years.

Anyway… back to rendering someone unconsciousness…It was an act of self-betrayal that helped put me in a comatose state. Shortly after I took PFAL I wanted to maintain this feeling of "spiritual re-birth" or cult high. Out with my old man ways! So I took all my sketch books from art school, poems and songs I had written and hauled them off to a dumpster behind some restaurant at Green Acres Shopping Mall . After I turned off all my friends who got tired of listening to how PFAL changed my life – I kept to just seeing people in TWI.

Anything TWI promoted that promised growth sounded good to me. So I decided to go WOW. To lighten up for the trip and to release more "old man fetters" I gave my customized Fender Jazz Bass and Fender Amp to a local believer.

I think most folks would say "if I had a kid who got rid of all that so quickly – there must be something wrong with that boy." Yeah, that would be a big red flag to parents. If the "Almost Famous" movie could mention a second message of parental guidance to kids besides "don't do drugs" I think it should be "don't join cults".

...maybe add don't give away your customized bass

...don't get rid of anything you've created

....don't cut off true friends

...don't keep adding to this list...oops ok, i'll stop...

I threw away my yearbooks from high school and college. Have always regretted it!

[Broken Arrow]

My red flag is like Allan's. When I went to Emporia with the 6th Corps (I was College Division) and saw all the blatant adultery around and leadership doing absolutely nothing to call it out. It was never mentioned from the "pulpit". That was accentuated by H.E. Wierwille walking around with his hand on girl's butts, the girls were less than half his age. Then there was the time I spotted VP out in the back 40 in the dark of night embracing some young lady while his wife sat and watched from a golf cart. I figured he was "ministering".

But, I hung around another 10 years. Go figure.

Edited August 26, 2014 by Broken Arrow

[excathedra]

you are soooooooooo not the only one, broken

h.e. actually came up to me and grabbed my.... and said "so young and firm" what a frikkin pig

did i leave then ? NOOOOOOOOOO

and then the crap i saw and experienced with wierwille, martindale, and MANY various leaders....

did i leave then ? NNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOo