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Vern Edwards: The Decision Is Yours


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16 hours ago, T-Bone said:

And speaking of the 2nd and 3rd generation of way-believers…I sometimes wonder about those who have never visited Grease Spot. What does the “old guard” tell them about the massive exits? Or is it something that doesn’t come up that much? Maybe that’s been addressed on some other threads before - if so point me in the right direction.

I don't know the answers, but since there's no yearly gatherings, I am thinking most don't realize how much things have shrunk.  Plus there's always the faithful remnant spin along with those of us who left were deceived by the devil issue.   So glad I woke up!

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As a grad of the 2nd Way Corps, I thought I'd pipe up and say a few words. It's no secret that I've rejected associating with The Way and have left its teachings in my rearview mirror. Neverthele

Been there and done that.  It took me working at HQ and seeing the hypocrisy and everyday meanness for me to even consider looking online.  And then a couple years after that before I realized God was

Why do I think Rosalie and Donna cunningly set this in motion?  LOL.   Give Vern and John little perky titles and a micro-managed lane to run in......to stroke their egos.  Yet, behind the CEO-curtain

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18 hours ago, T-Bone said:

good questions, Skyrider – and it always makes me wonder about the clergy, corps, staff  and “old timers” that still stuck around after Geer’s paper was read – did any of them let ambitious desires cloud their judgement to make sense of the situation or make sensible decisions? In other words, was it more of a “hey, there’s a lot of gaps to fill, maybe now it’s my time to shine” rather than asking “what is so bad that a lot of clergy and corps are leaving?

And speaking of the 2nd and 3rd generation of way-believers…I sometimes wonder about those who have never visited Grease Spot. What does the “old guard” tell them about the massive exits? Or is it something that doesn’t come up that much? Maybe that’s been addressed on some other threads before - if so point me in the right direction.

T-Bone.......maybe more 2nd generation way-believers will come forward to post inside-baseball information to answer your questions.  But like most everything in a cult, it had "wheels within wheels" of challenges, authoritarian control, deception, abuse, etc.  We've seen threads where these kids (now 30-45 yrs old) have shared aspects of their life experiences growing up in a cult.  From some, the pain and depression and ostracizing from their way-parents has been heart-wrenching to read.

Whereas, some see it as opportunity.  Seems like most make their escape from twi at age 18 and head off to college.  Yet, there are a small few who head off to college and could attain good careers with their degrees, but desire the offices of cult-leadership.  To me......it baffles the mind with internet and social media access that 2nd generation wayfers would make that choice, but it's there.  Young men like Brian Moneyhands and Chand--ler Greene.

A thread from 2007...........

 

 

 

 

 

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thanks for your relies Penguin 2 and Skyrider...and I'll do some reading of that Georgio J thread

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Yeah......that Georgio Jessio thread is an interesting read.  At that time (2007).......13 years ago.......according to this account, Brian Moneyhands was contemplating a twi-coup to oust Rosalie Rivenbark from president.  He was trying to rally support from a bunch of young bucks to bring excitement and cash flow back to twi.  And now, looking thru the lens of time.......it is amazing to see how it all went down. 

Where dull-denominations RULE WITH HEAVY HAND.......[the co-opted corps poem].   Way-religion snuffed the life out of "deeply-springing powers within believers" and corps were conditioned to blindly follow orders.  The corps program demanded obedience.......and in the end, obedience led them over the cliff.

Even 13 years ago.......some of us could see Donna Martindale's ascent to the big chair.

Today............the "big chair" is NOT twi-president, but the CEO.

 

On 8/18/2007 at 10:58 AM, skyrider said:

MANY of those hq staffers are between the age bracket of 52 - 62 years old. So......I tend to think that job security is the bottom line "commitment" to twi. Some of those department coordinators and staffers have a nice little office and cushy job. No, it doesn't pay all that much........but there is a deep sense of satisfaction to work at the spiritual epicenter of the world.

And sure, it would be nice to see Rosalie move into emeritus status (and not hear her squeaky, syrupy voice all the time)........BUT whoever sits on the throne, it better not be some snot-nosed kid who might start stirring the pot and yelling a lot.

Heck, maybe Donna has her eyes on the top chair...??

 

 

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On 7/5/2020 at 2:11 PM, skyrider said:

 

1.   Twi's Board of Directors uses the "no debt" policy to keep corps leadership and advanced class grads in subservience.  In twi's authoritarian role, they deem home mortgages a debt......a calculated method to keep way corps from home ownership.  Corps grads who are homeowners (mortgage or no mortgage)......are not able to take on new corps placement assignments in another state.  If they did get reassigned, then they'd have to go thru the process of getting the home ready for sale.....and what if it didn't sell?  Thus, these corps grads are "off-limits" (generally speaking) when their names come up in twi's annual placement meetings each March.

Of course, there is a double-standard policy when it comes to corps staff.  Corps people like John Linder got a mortgage in 1981 or 1982 when The Way Credit Union made these home loans available.....and twi sanctioned those home/car loans.  BUT.....that was short-lived when twi realized this gaping error of judgment.  Many corps staff bought homes in New Knoxville, St. Marys, New Breman, and Wapakoneta and stayed on staff for 25-30+ years.  ["All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others."  George Orwell].  The Way Credit Union allowed corps and advanced class grads borrow money and "go in debt."  Until they didn't allow it.

Twi is a cult.....not because of its beliefs, but because of its methods.  In this instance, the "no debt" policy is the strong arm of authoritarian control reaching down into the personal life of their followers/disciples.  When young people grow up......build equity, livelihoods, careers and families.....many become independent and break free from twi's grip of dependence.  So, the "no debt" policy helps to nip that in the bud.  Some long-standing corps have discovered that after 35-45 years in twi they have no equity or retirement funds.  Sad reality.

 

 

The Way International Cult thrives best when there is strict, authoritarian control over their followers:  1)  Rulers and 2) Followers.  No middle ground.  No middle class of wealth, independence and self-rule.  No advantage to the cult if families are taking their kids to the lake on Sunday for a day of memories. With more prosperity comes more independence.......and more family outings, vacations, traditions and memories.  With more prosperity and upward mobility......a father is able to provide more for his family and gain respect in his career field and community.

Why did wierwille teach certain aspects of "spiritual growth" and give other verses the silent treatment?  Answer:  he wanted to subjugate (control) the people.  Of course, he gave lip-service to prosperity.......advancing "spiritual maturity" and discouraged higher education especially to the corps.  Wierwille's corps letters are filled with his opining that corps were abandoning him (as early as 1977).    Anyone who thinks that twi went south because of craig martindale.......hasn't connected the dots, yet.

So, now.......why won't twi's board of directors relent on their "no-debt" doctrine?  Why do they vault themselves into the position over YOUR FINANCIAL AFFAIRS? 

What gives them the damn right to invade your space, your personal decision-making?  INDOCTRINATION.  The cult rulers have pushed and confronted you for years, decades.  They've wormed their way into every fabric of your life.......twi is a cult.  They do NOT want you to gain independence.  They do NOT want you to gain more prosperity and build equity and advanced forward.  They want to subjugate you.

Do you ever think back to those early Rock of Ages.......and think about the message it portrayed?  Yeah, sure....there were laughs and good times among our "friends" and many held onto those nostalgic memories for decades..... but there was sweltering heat, downpours, mud, wet tents, chilly nights, cold showers, sickness, poverty, confrontations, coerced-labor, beggars wanting money to go WOW, home-again propaganda, etc.   Ain't it great to be home again?     ppffffffttttt

And, if you see any of them R&R folks knocking on your doors......ask them, "Why do you want to RESTORE that?""

 

 

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I just looked at TWI's home page for the heck of it.  They had a June graduation of 11 corps.  According to the site, their training is four years, two at HQ.  Interesting, since corps previously were mostly "on the field" during their year when not in residence. I wonder what they are being trained for if they are at HQ that much.  Trained to be lifers on staff?

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Igt was always supposed to be 4 years; apprentice year (working with your local leadership); 1 yr in rez (younger Corps); interim year (on the field, in a different area probably, and trying to get PFAL classes together); and final year (elder Corps), where you helped and guided younger Corps.

The thought of being assigned to work at HQ after graduation I found absolutely terrifying.  And an interim year at HQ - glad that wasn't an option for me.  As international Corps, though,  I had to do two years back to back then a year on the field in my home country.

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On 8/1/2020 at 7:50 PM, skyrider said:

Looking at all these names of clergy from years ago......it looks like about 10 of those are still with twi.  So, it does make me wonder that when 2nd generation (or 3rd generation) wayfers come here to GSC........how many of them ever even heard of some of these men and women?  Much less ask themselves the thought-provoking questions like....1) If twi was so good, then why did all these clergy abandon this ministry?  2) So shortly after wierwille's death.....why did it collapse so quickly?  3) If the principles of integrity and commitment were solid, then it should have stood for decades like a rock, no?  4) Why didn't wierwille address all these schisms that were developing in twi before his death?  5) Is Vern Edwards just the latest next-man-up?  6) With all of this history of upheaval, deception and turmoil......what else are they hiding?

You have every right to ask questions !!

You have every right to inspect the fruit of their actions !!

On 8/2/2020 at 1:12 AM, T-Bone said:

And speaking of the 2nd and 3rd generation of way-believers…I sometimes wonder about those who have never visited Grease Spot. What does the “old guard” tell them about the massive exits? Or is it something that doesn’t come up that much? Maybe that’s been addressed on some other threads before - if so point me in the right direction.

On 8/2/2020 at 9:03 PM, skyrider said:

Seems like most make their escape from twi at age 18 and head off to college.  Yet, there are a small few who head off to college and could attain good careers with their degrees, but desire the offices of cult-leadership.  To me......it baffles the mind with internet and social media access that 2nd generation wayfers would make that choice, but it's there.  Young men like Brian Moneyhands and Chand--ler Greene.

 

Ok, it seems like I have a few questions to answer. First of all, no we rarely hear the names of anyone who was big in the Weirwille era and left, and if we do its generally from someone telling a story and mentioning them in passing.

Second, we generally hear about the "Fog Years" sooner or later. Not from the official ministry account of its history, of course, but from people and parents, so I can only speak for my personal experiance. Most of the stories I heard were told with a spin that the Way is successful and righteous and its enemies are unsuccessful and evil. I had heard of Geer, but all I knew about him was that he went off and did his own thing and something about his board of directors shutting down and selling his property at Gartmore because of how much of a failure it was (I don't think that's what actually happened). I also heard stories about entire states breaking away from Headquarters, but HQ was always strong and survived. I was generally told that most people who left weren't interested in the Word or were tricked by the devil. I knew that people left, but one of the biggest shocks for me was learning the massive scale of it. Also, Martindale was characterized as someone who "just made a mistake" or never fully got out of his jock lifestyle and any mention of his misdeeds was followed with a "the ministry can't be judged by the actions of one man."

I can't speak for others, but one of the biggest fears for me about Googling the Way was that I would be tricked off the Word by the devil, or maybe even become possessed myself. I figured that there were a lot of devil spirits at work to cause people to post hateful things about the Way to stop us from being able to teach the truth of God's Word.

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44 minutes ago, rubina said:

I also heard stories about entire states breaking away from Headquarters, but HQ was always strong and survived. I was generally told that most people who left weren't interested in the Word or were tricked by the devil.

Standard rationalization by twi.

 

45 minutes ago, rubina said:

I had heard of Geer, but all I knew about him was that he went off and did his own thing and something about his board of directors shutting down and selling his property at Gartmore because of how much of a failure it was (I don't think that's what actually happened).

Why do you not think that's what really happened?

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29 minutes ago, Rocky said:

Why do you not think that's what really happened?

I'm not all that informed on Geer, but if I remember correctly Gartmore was in pretty poor shape from the beginning and Geer eventually decided to move back to Maine. 

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5 hours ago, rubina said:

 

Ok, it seems like I have a few questions to answer. First of all, no we rarely hear the names of anyone who was big in the Weirwille era and left, and if we do its generally from someone telling a story and mentioning them in passing.

Second, we generally hear about the "Fog Years" sooner or later. Not from the official ministry account of its history, of course, but from people and parents, so I can only speak for my personal experiance. Most of the stories I heard were told with a spin that the Way is successful and righteous and its enemies are unsuccessful and evil. I had heard of Geer, but all I knew about him was that he went off and did his own thing and something about his board of directors shutting down and selling his property at Gartmore because of how much of a failure it was (I don't think that's what actually happened). I also heard stories about entire states breaking away from Headquarters, but HQ was always strong and survived. I was generally told that most people who left weren't interested in the Word or were tricked by the devil. I knew that people left, but one of the biggest shocks for me was learning the massive scale of it. Also, Martindale was characterized as someone who "just made a mistake" or never fully got out of his jock lifestyle and any mention of his misdeeds was followed with a "the ministry can't be judged by the actions of one man."

I can't speak for others, but one of the biggest fears for me about Googling the Way was that I would be tricked off the Word by the devil, or maybe even become possessed myself. I figured that there were a lot of devil spirits at work to cause people to post hateful things about the Way to stop us from being able to teach the truth of God's Word.

wierwille and others were/are masters at cultivating self-doubt in followers – and the young and naïve are especially susceptible since they lack much in the way of life-lesson experiences and usually have undeveloped critical thinking skills. We were taught the first step in the road downhill is to doubt or question “The Word”. This was the start of the great subterfuge to attack any sense of self-confidence or autonomy we may have had – subliminally what is communicated is that you do not question or doubt authority…We were led to believe TWI’s classes were all we needed to correctly understand or “rightly-divide” the Bible and unleash the power of God in our lives. “Take the class and all your questions will be answered”…Thus the self-doubt problem – that they themselves fostered – was supposedly resolved by a follower’s false-confidence in their “product” and services. We were never encouraged to think for ourselves - just ask your leadership. If you go in the way corps what is expected of you is blind – and I might add mindless - obedience to your leadership.

When I began thinking about leaving TWI in ’86 – after the convergence of personal experiences and a major ministry meltdown, I had to look deeper into the layers of intellectual-hobbling (self-doubt) that are part of the TWI-mindset. Some of it went along similar lines of what Rubina mentioned - confronting the fear of forsaking God and the Word or being influenced by devil spirits.. In my mind it was almost like a call-and-response format – brave first attempts to "dialog" with myself – self-examination or something…do I love God and His Word?     Yes – but now I was beginning to wonder if wierwille and/or Craig handled The Word of God deceitfully....       Am I possessed or being influenced by devil spirits?        No – I recalled several bad acid trips before I was in TWI and I still remember what it was like to be under the influence of something that was not a part of me (I figured being affected by one of the most powerful mind-altering hallucinogens might be a similar experience to being possessed or influenced by devil spirits  :spy:    ). And by the way, some of those doubts and questions - were not about myself or about my thinking process, they were challenges to the authority of wierwille and Craig...They were coming to the surface – some of which were buried very deep for a very long time – deep within myself – buried…suppressed…held at bay by the intellectual-hobblingmind controlbrainwashing of The Way International.

 

To any TWI-followers who feel confused, trapped or frustrated - what I’m about to say may seem discouraging at first, but it’s intended to point you in the right direction. There’s really nothing here at Grease Spot - or anywhere else for that matter -  that will force your eyes open and make you see the light…but I won’t leave you without hope – I intend to point you in the right direction – look within yourself. Can you identify the self-doubt promoted by TWI that keeps you in line? Do you know what intellectual-hobbling is? Hobbling is to tie or strap together (the legs of a horse or other animal) to prevent it from straying. The ONLY person who can cut you loose from that is YOU – since you’re the only one inside your own head, only YOU can do it. The decision is YOURS.

Edited by T-Bone
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5 hours ago, rubina said:

 

Ok, it seems like I have a few questions to answer. First of all, no we rarely hear the names of anyone who was big in the Weirwille era and left, and if we do its generally from someone telling a story and mentioning them in passing.

Second, we generally hear about the "Fog Years" sooner or later. Not from the official ministry account of its history, of course, but from people and parents, so I can only speak for my personal experiance. Most of the stories I heard were told with a spin that the Way is successful and righteous and its enemies are unsuccessful and evil. I had heard of Geer, but all I knew about him was that he went off and did his own thing and something about his board of directors shutting down and selling his property at Gartmore because of how much of a failure it was (I don't think that's what actually happened). I also heard stories about entire states breaking away from Headquarters, but HQ was always strong and survived. I was generally told that most people who left weren't interested in the Word or were tricked by the devil. I knew that people left, but one of the biggest shocks for me was learning the massive scale of it. Also, Martindale was characterized as someone who "just made a mistake" or never fully got out of his jock lifestyle and any mention of his misdeeds was followed with a "the ministry can't be judged by the actions of one man."

I can't speak for others, but one of the biggest fears for me about Googling the Way was that I would be tricked off the Word by the devil, or maybe even become possessed myself. I figured that there were a lot of devil spirits at work to cause people to post hateful things about the Way to stop us from being able to teach the truth of God's Word.

Rosie reminds me of Napolean in the book, Animal Farm, Napolean convinced all the other animals in the pasture that their recollection of the past was wrong. Only he knew the accurate history of the Farm, so he could change it to meet his narrative, to control them all.

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7 hours ago, rubina said:

I'm not all that informed on Geer, but if I remember correctly Gartmore was in pretty poor shape from the beginning and Geer eventually decided to move back to Maine. 

You can get the long story from Geer's own account, and some discussions.

Geer's own account was in his "Passing of the Patriarch" letter, and is found here:

http://web.archive.org/web/20030219041822/http://greasespotcafe.com/waydale/misc/pop1.htm

Discussions of Gartmore House were in several threads, including...

"Gartmore Geer"

https://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/topic/4587-gartmore-geer/

"Bad Decisions- the way to blunder onward"

https://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/topic/23858-bad-decisions-the-way-to-blunder-onward/

"wierwille the patriarch".

https://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/topic/23856-wierwille-the-patriarch/?tab=comments#comment-563044

 

My recommendation is to read all or some of the letter yourself, then read "Bad Decisions".

 

 

 

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9 hours ago, rubina said:

I'm not all that informed on Geer, but if I remember correctly Gartmore was in pretty poor shape from the beginning and Geer eventually decided to move back to Maine. 

There are plenty of threads on the failure at Gartmore already in the Cafe's archives.  Try the search box above.  WordWolf has picked up a few.

I was there.  The enthusiasm of European believers was enormous.  Beautiful place, a bit run down, but workable.  Lots and lots of time and energy given freely by believers.  Working parties coming hundreds of miles at weekends to help.

But their enthusiasm and willingness were no match for Geer's ego.  He had to do everything himself, and ran off those with energy, skills, ability, so that he could downplay their contribution and say he'd had to do it all himself.

I was also at HQ in Ohio working in the International Outreach and Legal Depts, when they shut down Geer and made him return all the PFAL materials.  That didn't matter too much to Geer, as by that time, he'd cribbed what he wanted and was busy preparing his own foundational class. 

 

This is a bit "off topic" for Vern Edwards.  I don't think there are any more properties or campuses to fight over, except for Gunnison, which has now pretty much become the summer holiday retirement home complex of favored older staff.  Maybe he should consider selling that off to a real holiday resort group.  Beautiful place.

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18 hours ago, rubina said:

 

Ok, it seems like I have a few questions to answer. First of all, no we rarely hear the names of anyone who was big in the Weirwille era and left, and if we do its generally from someone telling a story and mentioning them in passing.

Second, we generally hear about the "Fog Years" sooner or later. Not from the official ministry account of its history, of course, but from people and parents, so I can only speak for my personal experiance. Most of the stories I heard were told with a spin that the Way is successful and righteous and its enemies are unsuccessful and evil. I had heard of Geer, but all I knew about him was that he went off and did his own thing and something about his board of directors shutting down and selling his property at Gartmore because of how much of a failure it was (I don't think that's what actually happened). I also heard stories about entire states breaking away from Headquarters, but HQ was always strong and survived. I was generally told that most people who left weren't interested in the Word or were tricked by the devil. I knew that people left, but one of the biggest shocks for me was learning the massive scale of it. Also, Martindale was characterized as someone who "just made a mistake" or never fully got out of his jock lifestyle and any mention of his misdeeds was followed with a "the ministry can't be judged by the actions of one man."

I can't speak for others, but one of the biggest fears for me about Googling the Way was that I would be tricked off the Word by the devil, or maybe even become possessed myself. I figured that there were a lot of devil spirits at work to cause people to post hateful things about the Way to stop us from being able to teach the truth of God's Word.

Rubina........thanks for your reply.

These past 19 years, here at GSC.......I have always found it fascinating to read all the different perspectives that people express in their posts.  The accumulation of all these experiences, combined together......is like putting a puzzle together, piece by piece.  

Even though, I faithfully attended twig and sat thru 6 or 7 pfal classes before going WOW twice.......I didn't have a clue of twi's deceptive tactics and history.  I focused all my attention on helping others and outreach.  But when I needed to sit thru wierwille's Christian Family and Sex class to complete my requirements for Apprentice Corps ......several aspects of that class were unsettling.  The more I delved into twi's advanced studies classes, then the advanced class......THEN, the corps program......the more red flags I saw.  Plus, I started seeing corps grads who were disgruntled and dissenting from this "lifetime of Christian....cult service."

  1. In July 1978......Rev. John Cl-ay, 4th Corps and Georgia Limb Coordinator was exiting twi.  His mom was on staff at hq.
  2. While in-rez in 9th corps......several segments of corps nights were spent castigating region/limb guys (cop-outs).
  3. In Nov 1979......Rev. Steve Sa-nn 4th Corps was not happy to be recalled back to hq for wierwille's "Re-Education Corps Camp."
  4. In Oct 1981.......Rev. Mike Smith 1st Corps was planning to head to Alaska after 1982 Rock of Ages.  No more corps assignments.

Why were corps grads ready to split by 1978?  1979?  What were they seeing that others were not?

Here at GSC......posters have relayed the background information of Heefner and Doop.  These young ministers, in 1969-1972, were on fire with genuine ministries....... the hippies, youth and their giving was pouring in.  According to Jim Doop.....wierwille agreed that 85% of abundant sharing should stay in The Way West and then, 15% of it would be sent to hq each week.  But by March 1972.....wierwille blindsided these guys in open meetings in a power-grab.

Heefner and Doop.........how many people know the dark details of wirwille's abuse and deceit in this?  

John Summ3rville.........TFI 1975,76 (Total Fitness Institute in California) the only man (as far as I know) who stood up to wierwille.  So, wierwille sets up his LEAD program and runs it out of Tinnie, New Mexico.  Martindale failed in his evaluation at TFI.....yet, he became the Corps Director over 5 corps locations. YIKES. 

Geer drove wierwille's bus and guarded the door at vp's night romps with corps women.  He snaked his way into wierwille's inner-circle.  If wierwille had had any depth of spiritual perception (cough, cough), he would have seen it for what it was.  There was a misogynistic undercurrent in wierwille's teachings and geer amplified it.  

Of course, the more time I spent reading Mrs. Wierwille's book, I couldn't help but see that plagiarism and narcissism were vpw's pillars..... wierwille's climb to power.  Mrs. Wierwille's book, Born Again to Serve, undermines the MOG-Doctrine in twi and exposes the myths and mystique of Victor Paul Wierwille.  You read about the fictional 1942 birth of twi......and find its EXACT DATE OF BIRTH as December 19, 1957.  Unmistakably, these pages show that wierwille stole the foundational class from B. G. Leonard and deceptively ran with it. You read that the India itinerary was somewhat successful because honor and respect was given to Dr. I. S. Williams who opened many doors of churches, political offices and the Jain Covention for wierwille. You read about the first exodus in 1960.....because Troy/Piqua believers did not trust wierwille to keep the abundant sharing money separate from the operation of his family farm.  

When you think that it was bad in the 1990s......go back to the 1980s.

When you think that it was bad in the 1980s......go back to the 1970s.

When you think that it was bad in the 1970s......go back to the 1960s.

Every decade has a different layer of deception in it.

 

 

 

.

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22 hours ago, rubina said:

I can't speak for others, but one of the biggest fears for me about Googling the Way was that I would be tricked off the Word by the devil, or maybe even become possessed myself. I figured that there were a lot of devil spirits at work to cause people to post hateful things about the Way to stop us from being able to teach the truth of God's Word.

Been there and done that.  It took me working at HQ and seeing the hypocrisy and everyday meanness for me to even consider looking online.  And then a couple years after that before I realized God wasn't going to "life his protection" from my life if I did.

The first time I read a thread from Greasespot was when I saw a print out of it on Rosalie's desk while I was cleaning.  I wasn't prying, just dusting around things.  But I do remember that moment very well.  At that point I was already questioning the things I saw at HQ, and it struck me as odd that the woman in charge of the ministry was having someone print these things from a website that was so "devilish."

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On 8/7/2020 at 4:42 PM, JavaJane said:

and it struck me as odd that the woman in charge of the ministry was having someone print these things from a website that was so "devilish."

She used to have L@hn L!nder print them out for her because for years she refused to have a computer in her office or use one at all. I started posting here to expose the things twi wants to hide. However, i always took satisfaction knowing she was reading along.

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On 8/7/2020 at 4:42 PM, JavaJane said:

Been there and done that.  It took me working at HQ and seeing the hypocrisy and everyday meanness for me to even consider looking online.  And then a couple years after that before I realized God wasn't going to "life his protection" from my life if I did.

The first time I read a thread from Greasespot was when I saw a print out of it on Rosalie's desk while I was cleaning.  I wasn't prying, just dusting around things.  But I do remember that moment very well.  At that point I was already questioning the things I saw at HQ, and it struck me as odd that the woman in charge of the ministry was having someone print these things from a website that was so "devilish."

 

JavaJane.............priceless   :biglaugh:

Which begs the questions going forward......

  1. Will Vern Edwards, as president........be given updates from GSC each week?
  2. Or, will John Rupp, as Chairman of the Board......need GSC updates to keep close tabs on hq-staff?
  3. Or, will Donna Martindale, as CEO......be shown updates and mandates others to stay off the internet?

What the leaders (rulers) deem as "devilish".....they, themselves, are able to partake in.  See...that's how you control the little people.  They label it "devilish" and tell people to stay away or they might get possessed......but then, they have the "spiritual maturity" to handle it.

Lest we forget........wierwille had a dog-porno flick that he brought out of his "collection of devilish stuff" to show others.  

 

 

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6 hours ago, skyrider said:

 

JavaJane.............priceless   :biglaugh:

Which begs the questions going forward......

  1. Will Vern Edwards, as president........be given updates from GSC each week?
  2. Or, will John Rupp, as Chairman of the Board......need GSC updates to keep close tabs on hq-staff?
  3. Or, will Donna Martindale, as CEO......be shown updates and mandates others to stay off the internet?

What the leaders (rulers) deem as "devilish".....they, themselves, are able to partake in.  See...that's how you control the little people.  They label it "devilish" and tell people to stay away or they might get possessed......but then, they have the "spiritual maturity" to handle it.

Lest we forget........wierwille had a dog-porno flick that he brought out of his "collection of devilish stuff" to show others.  

 

That’s a great point on how wierwille and company would flip flop values.

Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter!...Isaiah 5:20 ESV

I’ve mentioned a few time before how wierwille showed the dog-porno flick to our Family corps - as he had done with many other corps in special "teaching sessions", saying he had the “spiritual maturity” to handle it and even suggesting that “spiritual maturity” is something we should aspire to…I don’t imagine they’ll ever have a corps night where they all get online with Grease Spot to learn how to handle such “devilish” things…Bless Patrol might have to be put on high-alert for folks attempting to escape.

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On 8/4/2020 at 2:49 PM, Twinky said:

Igt was always supposed to be 4 years; apprentice year (working with your local leadership); 1 yr in rez (younger Corps); interim year (on the field, in a different area probably, and trying to get PFAL classes together); and final year (elder Corps), where you helped and guided younger Corps.

The thought of being assigned to work at HQ after graduation I found absolutely terrifying.  And an interim year at HQ - glad that wasn't an option for me.  As international Corps, though,  I had to do two years back to back then a year on the field in my home country.

In the late nineties it was changed to:

Year 1: Candidate Year - same as what had been Apprentice Year

Year 2: Apprentice Year - required to be out as a Way Disciple or on staff

Years 3 & 4: In residence at the Colorado location

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1 hour ago, T-Bone said:

That’s a great point on how wierwille and company would flip flop values.

Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter!...Isaiah 5:20 ESV

I’ve mentioned a few time before how wierwille showed the dog-porno flick to our Family corps - as he had done with many other corps in special "teaching sessions", saying he had the “spiritual maturity” to handle it and even suggesting that “spiritual maturity” is something we should aspire to…I don’t imagine they’ll ever have a corps night where they all get online with Grease Spot to learn how to handle such “devilish” things…Bless Patrol might have to be put on high-alert for folks attempting to escape.

 

So, time and again........wierwille would show his dog-porno flick to in-residence corps and family corps.  He would explain, in detail, what was happening.....and how the dog was not an active participant in this sexual activity.  Wierwille yukked it up.......sometimes, rewinding the flick to see it again, in repetition.

Yet......we spent thousands of hours in classes and when wierwille came to campus he showed THIS?

Why didn't wierwille spend time, IN DETAIL......showing us the intricate aspects of "ministering healing" to others?  Wierwille, by example......operating the "gifts of healing manifestation" to someone in need.  In the sunlight.  In front of the corps.  Rather than show us the "devil side of things"........show us "THE GOD-SIDE OF THINGS."

I know, I know......wierwille said that he didn't want us to mimic him.  He said that God would individually work in each of us.....IF we were in fellowship.  So, wierwille would talk a con-game.......but I never saw him once demonstrate the power of the revelation/action manifestations.  Surprise.  Surprise.  And, to this day......there are corps who still idolize the counterfeit man.

Or, wierwille was known to visit an all-female "Way Home".....and would leave the bathroom door wide open and stand naked at the bathroom sink.  When one young girl walked by, he turned directly to her and gave her the full monty......and smiled.  Apparently, He enjoyed seeing her reaction.  He had an agenda of pushing sexual boundaries.  And, for years......he used his motor coach to ambush young, unsuspecting corps girls who thought it an honor to be invited to personally "meet" with him.

Let that sink in.........

 

 

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It’s a weird cruel sham to have followers think that The Way International is “dedicated to setting before people the astonishing accuracy and practicality of God’s Word” (    from  TWI's website       )…how they continue to ignore and cover-up the excessive moral depravity of wierwille and others is mind-boggling! Yet consider the fallout from the Penn State child sex abuse scandal (see links below). That is how the world      - not way-world,   but the real world      – reacted to that scandal. To use wierwille’s own words from PFAL against him and his legacy (The Way International) there’s got to be something wrong with our scale of values.

How does this bull$hit continue to live on? …the perpetual idolizing of wierwille…occasionally putting another coat of whitewash on the life of wierwille…enjoying the dividends of hypocrisy – money and getting to lord it over others. That’s why The Way International strives to remain a world unto itself – God forbid its hypocrisy should come to light. God forbid they should be treated or understood any differently than Jerry Sandusky, Harvey Weinstein, Jeffrey Epstein, Larry Nassar.   

 

 

Wikipedia - Penn State child sex abuse scandal

CNN - facts of Penn State Scandal

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On 7/22/2020 at 8:50 PM, rubina said:

I wanted to hear more and think through a good response to what is going on before I posted something here about whose calling the shots in the Way, but this is what I think is going on:

Vern's current role in the Way is similar to that of Gorbachev's in the Soviet Union.

The story starts with the state of the Way in the 2000's: its still significant assets have been depreciating, and it shows. TWI has been destroying buildings and selling property that it doesn't have the resources to maintain. The Way had been creeping along, but its stagnation wasn't of any critical concern, until 2017.

In 2017, Revival and Restoration comes along. As tough as TWI wanted to be with R&R, it was not as invincible as it made itself out to be. The M&As of various state and region coordinators took a toll on TWI. The number of followers in the US had always been small, but in the wake of R&R, TWI's numbers had become unsustainably small and so did the ABS inflows.

The initial solution from leadership was simple: MORE WITNESSING. Way of the USA (Trunk Office) lit a fire under every follower to go out witnessing more, but the reaction from the rank and file followers was mixed and only the most devout answered the call. Even with more people walking around malls and knocking on doors, the results were poor. Thanks to the combined forces of the cold and bureaucratic rules about classes, and Google, TWI found little success recruiting more followers.  I don't know what the plan with JYDL was, maybe to better connect with TWI's large francophone following from West Africa, but that seemed to take a lesser priority to increasing ABS for whoever was in charge. In the end, JYDL played the role of the scapegoat for TWI's under-performance (although even among the most devout, you will hear whispers that Rosalie should have retired earlier, so I don't know if anyone actually believes that).

Enter Vern. By now, Rosalie had seen the writing on the wall and that TWI couldn't keep doing what it had been doing for at least the past 20 years and was at least willing to delegate. I think Vern will actually make changes in how things are done on staff and in the field. He has the power to do so. The other BOD members don't live on grounds and I suspect have little sway outside their at most quarterly meetings. Donna and the Secretary Treasurer (who I think is her sister) will keep their eyes on Vern and the ABS inflows, but I don't think they will get involved in daily decision making unless Vern takes a step too far. Rosalie too could probably take a more active role, staff and region leadership has grown used to unquestioningly taking orders from her over the past 20 years and I doubt that her losing her title can do anything to change that. 

In the end, Vern might make TWI a more appealing place for those born into it and cut the red tape for recruits, but TWI will always have to face the challenge of Google. The dark stories of TWI's past are only a click away, and if you don't want to take the time to read, there's even a couple of podcast episodes you can listen to. Any real reform would require addressing TWI's sketchy past, and judging by his letter and those who are overseeing him, I don't think he has the luxury or the personal willingness to do that. So like Gorbachev, he is in the impossible position of reforming a system that was broke from the very beginning. 

 

 

There are reasons why TWI was not as formidable in 2017......as they thought they were.

1.  Years of dissenting voices had been percolating below the surface.  By August 2016, they sent the Board of Directors a letter of concerns and grievances.  This dissenting group viewed this as an Acts 15 attempt to confront "the church elders" and resolve this growing divide. According to reports, the directors would not meet with them as a group......but offered to meet separately with couples, attempting to divide and conquer the group.

2.  Thus, this dissenting group of corps marshaled greater numbers to their side.  The chasm had widened.  These corps want Rosalie to resign.....ousted from her position of power over them.  So, even though Jean-Yves is "installed" as president.....Rosalie RETAINS her position of power as vice-president.  The corps instantly recognize this as a ruse.  Jean-Yves is nothing but a figurehead.  Rosalie holds the power.  By March 2017........letter to directors signed by 60 corps (and implying dozens more agree).

3.  In this confrontation, the directors are dealing with major players.  Four couples have been corps coordinators......overseeing campuses and several hundreds of corps thru the years.  Plus, they'd gone on to oversee regions, limbs and branches.  Other major players had been hq-staffers for decades......in security, investment, legal, international outreach, etc.  No longer were these corps 30 year olds.........they are NOW 60-70 year olds and pi$$ed at the system of corruption.

4.  Add in the factor of social media.  How much communication and organization was done via phone/texting one another?  How many years have these corps been visiting GreaseSpot Cafe's site and read the thousands and thousands of threads here?

5.  Rosalie kept pushing and pushing these corps to do more.  Yet, many of them simply wanted the respect and public thanks from the directors for their decades of service .....and then, retire graciously. The cult could not and would not allow this. 

6.  There's a saying....."Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned."  Well, what about these corps who had been scorned?  Did the directors think that they could dispose and trash their reputations like twi did to others decades ago?  Hello???  The internet is here.  Social media is here.  NO LONGER CAN THE DIRECTORS SILENCE THEIR CRITICS.

7.  In business, it is said that one displeased customer will go on and tell his experience to 12 others.  That's 12 other people who have heard and are now influenced by a rotten business or an overpriced service.  Bad publicity travels around the city faster than you can imagine.  What did the directors think would happen?  Are they SO CLUELESS that they think bad business goes unspoken?

8.  Imagine......40+ years in twi-service and now THIS?  You don't think that is going to cut deeply?

9.  So, yeah......the directors have sowed the wind and shall reap the whirlwind.  No surprise.  These corps are going to keep telling others......friends, co-workers, kids, grand kids, etc.  How many will stop tithing/absing to twi altogether?  How many will start going to another splinter group?  How many will finally recognize this whole ruse as a cult experience?

10. Will twi every learn?  This is no longer the 1970s when wierwille was able to rule with dominant power over others.  Today, the internet and social media has changed everything.  This latest toll has INDEED been a significant blow to twi.  

 

.

 

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30 minutes ago, skyrider said:

 

There are reasons why TWI was not as formidable in 2017......as they thought they were.

1.  Years of dissenting voices had been percolating below the surface.  By August 2016, they sent the Board of Directors a letter of concerns and grievances.  This dissenting group viewed this as an Acts 15 attempt to confront "the church elders" and resolve this growing divide. According to reports, the directors would not meet with them as a group......but offered to meet separately with couples, attempting to divide and conquer the group.

2.  Thus, this dissenting group of corps marshaled greater numbers to their side.  The chasm had widened.  These corps want Rosalie to resign.....ousted from her position of power over them.  So, even though Jean-Yves is "installed" as president.....Rosalie RETAINS her position of power as vice-president.  The corps instantly recognize this as a ruse.  Jean-Yves is nothing but a figurehead.  Rosalie holds the power.  By March 2017........letter to directors signed by 60 corps (and implying dozens more agree).

3.  In this confrontation, the directors are dealing with major players.  Four couples have been corps coordinators......overseeing campuses and several hundreds of corps thru the years.  Plus, they'd gone on to oversee regions, limbs and branches.  Other major players had been hq-staffers for decades......in security, investment, legal, international outreach, etc.  No longer were these corps 30 year olds.........they are NOW 60-70 year olds and pi$$ed at the system of corruption.

4.  Add in the factor of social media.  How much communication and organization was done via phone/texting one another?  How many years have these corps been visiting GreaseSpot Cafe's site and read the thousands and thousands of threads here?

5.  Rosalie kept pushing and pushing these corps to do more.  Yet, many of them simply wanted the respect and public thanks from the directors for their decades of service .....and then, retire graciously. The cult could not and would not allow this. 

6.  There's a saying....."Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned."  Well, what about these corps who had been scorned?  Did the directors think that they could dispose and trash their reputations like twi did to others decades ago?  Hello???  The internet is here.  Social media is here.  NO LONGER CAN THE DIRECTORS SILENCE THEIR CRITICS.

7.  In business, it is said that one displeased customer will go on and tell his experience to 12 others.  That's 12 other people who have heard and are now influenced by a rotten business or an overpriced service.  Bad publicity travels around the city faster than you can imagine.  What did the directors think would happen?  Are they SO CLUELESS that they think bad business goes unspoken? [Apparently YES]

8.  Imagine......40+ years in twi-service and now THIS?  You don't think that is going to cut deeply?

9.  So, yeah......the directors have sowed the wind and shall reap the whirlwind.  No surprise.  These corps are going to keep telling others......friends, co-workers, kids, grand kids, etc.  How many will stop tithing/absing to twi altogether?  How many will start going to another splinter group?  How many will finally recognize this whole ruse as a cult experience?

10. Will twi every learn?  This is no longer the 1970s when wierwille was able to rule with dominant power over others.  Today, the internet and social media has changed everything.  This latest toll has INDEED been a significant blow to twi.  

 

Reaping the consequence of refusing to learn lessons of life from anything outside the tiny little box of their orthodox interpretation of Wierwille writings and practices, conspicuously labeled within the cult system as The Word of God. But many of those practices were nothing more than self-justifying sins of the flesh. And I'm not suggesting that was only limited to Wierwille's and Martindale's openly secret practice of adultery.

The financial practices governing the Way's labor force was rotten too.

With blinders on the Boards of Trustees, they appeared to learn nothing of consequence over the last 40-50 years except for how to screw people financially.

But I digress.

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