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Eyewitnesses:twi 1985...your stories?


WordWolf
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As always,

we're looking for your recollections of events.

ANY recollections are appreciated.

This was the year vpw ran to Gartmore,

and the PoP was written after his death

in April 1985.

vpw taught on "the Hope" shortly before

he died.

It was a VERY busy year in twi.

What do you remember of it?

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I remember.....I was a tc. We were allowed to blythly go about our daily activities....never aware that wiewille was sick....We had one criptic note that he needed some prayer....and a week later the big secret in the middle of the night message that vp had died and we were not allowed to tell ANYBODY.

We were to call an emergency meeting of our fellowships.....given strict instructions and a paragragh to read ...absolutely no more no less....then send everybody on their way......my poor people looked at me like they were so betrayed....here I had known this info for almost 14 hours and hadn`t told them....I felt so sneaky and ashamed....my heart had been so heavy with the horror of the unthinkable.....and I couldn`t ...was not PERMITTED to discuss it.....

We were so bewildered and hurt....WHY hadn`t the alarm been sounded...WHY hadn`t we dropped everything and instantly assembled 24 hour prayer groups all over the country......WHY hadn`t we been allowed to pray?

So I went out wow in aug..... roa was a subdued afair....the first without vp welcoming us ....everyone was looking for answeres when they arrived...none were provided.....everyone just kind of walked around in a daze avoiding everybody elses eyes.

Wow training was REALLY wierd.....kind of like an afterthought......athletes of the spirit had come out and everybody was able to see it by their regions.

Many of our regions went while we were in wow training....do you think that they could allow us to attend with a different region? as a wow group? Oh Hayull no too bad so sad....you missed out on the greatest spiritual production that had ever been produced.

I was floored at the lack of planningand lack of caring demonstrated....They would give us breaks for drinks and smokes....but then schedual the entertainment while everybody was milling around and talking....

I remember Sam Preyn was playing and nobody was listening....just milling around yacking...I felt like it was so disrespectfull...and yet we had been on our bu tts for hours....nobody was gonna miss a chance to smoke....

His eyes haunted me....he didn`t look happy to be there....he looked very upset....I don`t know why....just didn`t seem like the same inspired joyous person I had seen the previous year center stage roa.

Whoever coordinated wow training didn`t seem to think things through very well....we were lined up dressed in stockings and heals...the guys in 3 peice suits HOURS before we actually marched in....seems like we marched a long distance... the wow parade? the heat was intense and people were passing out....no chance to eat or get a drink for hours and then having to sit through an entire evenings service.....I remember many of us felt pretty puny by the end of the night.

It didn`t seem like the nice little extras that made us feel loved or the kindness was exibited that had been previously.

Probably everyone was still out of sorts with vp`s passing I guess. All I know is that it was very different than previous years.....

Usually wows were sent out with a breakfast....as it was we were just dismissed with the rest of the roa crowd.

More to follow ...

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...I recall that cryptic message in the middle of the night. I remember thinking at the time that Veepee was only 68 or 69...what happened to the great mog's believing? A time of sadness and confusion.

and I also attended that first roa after Veepee's death. rascal got it right...it was one depressing affair. I left after day two...it was the last time I was ever there...

...Of course, the death of grifter Vic was the beginning of the "fog years". Everything unraveled...I left twi in 1987. When the time came to leave, I knew it was the right thing to do...no question about it.

For many of us, when Wierwille died, it was almost like a bubble bursting...an awakening...we began to see what had really been going on. For me, "the fog years" were really just the opposite of that...the fog had lifted and what I saw was damn ugly.

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I was in res in the 15th corps. Sent to HQ my last block. That put me there when vp died. When he was in Gartmore. lcm said at a lunch time that vic was very tired and to keep him in our prayers. For some reason I was not working on the concrete crew the day he came back from Gartmore, I was weed wacking. I believe I was around the fountain when his coach came in.

As it passed me there was vic staring out of the window. Not an expression on his face but it seemed like a far away stare. We were at the sns during his last teaching. He was laboring all the way through it and you could tell he was in awful shape. That I believe is the last time he was out in the "public". It was the last time I saw him any way. We were told to pray but no mention of his health was made to us either. When he died we were all woken up and told to go to the Wierwille home basement. We all sat and JAL came in and read us the same paragraph about his (vp) passing. It was sad indeed but for the most part everyone held up pretty well. It was time to mourn our pop so there was not a lot of work being done at hq.

A day later all the "heavys" came in off the field and walked around like mummys. It was wierd, like they knew the ministry was in trouble. People dug his grave by hand (shovel) and took turns. Someone would dig 10 or so scoops of dirt then jump out of the grave and then someone would jump in and heave out a few shovel fulls. The grave was dug quickly. During the burial I was at the road holding up traffic until the service was over so I did not get a chance to see it or hear it.

My interm year I went wow too rascle and yes it was something else at roa that year. It was just as you said. I am very interested on how the death of vp was handled on the field. Seems like whether you were out on the field or at hq the same thing was told and handled in the same way.

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When we got on the wow field.....there were no *bless* notes from lcm. The first time I went wow....we got letters of encouragement from vp....a tape to listen to....the tape was wonderfull a prayer of exhortation and then songs of healing......seemed like the ministry was behind us.....

Now we did hear from lcm at Christmas.....there was a video ...and we were given the most beautifull wow mugs....real pretty classy mugs with gold trim..... full of hot chocolate to drink while we listened to him on the video and he had a matching one.

As much as I detest saying anything nice about lcm.....lol....it was very special. The believers from all over our limb bless their hearts all gave wonderfull wonderfull generous gifts and our lc handed them out in giant 3 or 4 ft long stockings filled to the top.....dressed up like santa clause.....(we cried) our year had been so heartbreakingly difficult up to this point....it was the first time we had felt like someone cared......to this day it was the most memorable ...the most moving outpouring of Christmas generocity that I have ever experienced....I am tearing up just rememberinghow it ministered to our battered souls.....thank you dear believers of the Kansas limb :)

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I wanted to break between the believers goodness and the roa at the end of the year.

Though technically I am going into 86 now........

Our LC after being incredibly kind and involved during the year was invited to hq in the spring to become part of the bot so we were kind of lost in all of the hullibaloo.....

We never heard from him after the spring....but didn`t begrudge his attention to the more important greater good of the ministry.....however we did feel quite forgotten and unimportant....there were only 8 wows left in the entire limb.....

POP was read at corpes week, unbeknownst to us....so we arive feeling like we had accomplished something having survived what everybody agreed was the most cruel and difficult year of our lives....we arrived battle weary and war torn...expecting to be treated as returning heroes.....snort people could have cared less....we didn`t know about pop....that the ministry was self destructing before our very eyes.....we just knew that NOBODY cared.

The victorious march into the big top was a sad afair....everybody elses lc was marching with them...proudly holding up their state signes eagerly showing off their wows.... and honored to be doing the actual pinning on *their* returning wows. We had at least hoped to get a *well done from SOMEBODY :( Even a note or the lc`s wifes presence would have been nice...some kind of small acknowledgement of what we had suffered....of the pain we had endured....of the struggle it had been to remain faithfull....

We were sadly alone ..... our lc obviously too busy with the things of the ministry couldn`t be bothered for an hour to pin *his* wows....we had to pin ourselves...I felt so lonely...so alone....we all looked at each other....utterly weary...utterly gratefull that the long night mare was over....there was no feeling of victory or pride this time.

Roa was so so cold people wandering around in mute shock....the believers who had arrived ...ignorant of pop were so puzzled...no warmth no bless you`s...just mechanical going through the motions by 90 per cent of the people there.

My bc pulled me aside before the end of roa and warned me that going into residence at this time just wasn`t a very good idea untill the dust settled and it was figured out which direction the ministry was headed.

Edited by rascal
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The wow that year had a double whammy....vp`s death and memorial at their outgoing roa and pop at their homecoming roa.....it was really a bleak year that I occasionally still have nightmares about.

I dunno how it compares with other years.....but I went out before in 79/80 and there was an entirely different flavor...a sense of adventure .... of zest of accomplishment.....enthusiasm. This time the feelings were of unutterable weariness and failure.

I get down just thinking about it.

Maybe it was just me though.

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It sounds like you at hq were no better aprised of the situation than we were.......

I am sorry that you were not treated as kindly as we were just loafing....I think that the incredibly generous local believers of the Kansas limb were the ONLY thing that made that awfull year bearable.

I will never forget the many kindnesses shown....

Groucho it was all very strange and subdued....wasn`t it? All of the questions we were not allowed to ask....all of the luster seemed to have gone out of the ministry....I was so hurt that the forces hadn`t been rallied around to pray for a miracle....we were not even asked....does that not say something about where hq`s believing/faith in our doctrine was? Geeeeze they didn`t even think enough of prayer or our believing or God`s ability to preform miracles .... to even give us to give it a shot on an international level?

Look at the effort rallied to save howard allens worthless tail....would not wierwille have deserved the same consideration? What about don w?

I don`t think anybody in charge at hq could have had any faith at this point.

Wordwolf I am sorry if I went to far by going into roa 86 ...the years were never numerical for me but from rock to rock.........maybe you wanted a seperate thread for pop and roa 86......if you want to remove and paste this where apropriate please feel free.

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I remember the events of VP's death more or less as everyone else--the call in the middle of the night, the shock etc...one thing that stood out during that time that struck me as very odd was that there was no period of mourning or reflection after the death of VP.

Martindale did a teaching on how Israel mourned after the death of Moses for 40 days ( I think that was the length) but on the tape even said .." we dont have time for that..we have to stay busy moving the word..."

It was business as usual-classes kept going, services still went on and a memorial service was finally slipped in between all the gobbledy gook months later on one of the days at the ROA. As a gungho on the field wayfer it didn't seem right that (excuse me but I thought this way at the time) the man "who opened the word like it hadn't been known since the first century" should be glossed over and forgotten about so quickly.

I was a TC in FL at the time --other than that it was the same old same old,----- pushes from above to run more classes, running the classes --- and then meetings, meetings, and more frickin meetings. Adv Class grad meetings, TC meetings, Branch meetings, Wow Vet meetings, Class planning meetings, Int class grad meetings----never mind the 3 twig meetings a week I was doing that year. It was a rat race

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I had not been back long from my disastrous session at LEAD (which had followed four months of he** at Camp Gunnison with TJ) and was at The Way College of Emporia, set to graduate in about 6 weeks from the 13th Corps. We got a call in the middle of the night, a "Red Alert" (which meant only one thing ... we were to report to the Ambassador Room in the top floor of the Campus Center.) Pat Lynn was in charge, since JAL was at HQ. She had been warned several days before that that VPW's death was most likely imminent. She had had the AV guy put together a tape of comforting and uplifting songs, etc. in memory of Dr. Wierwille. It was the most loving and compassionate thing I ever heard of her doing.

Except for Food Services, all other work stopped at Emporia for three days. When those days were over, John came back to Emporia ... not long after I went LOA from the 13th Corps and then decided not to go back when I heard that TJ was going to be at Emporia, too.

Because of Dr. Wierwille's death and my impending leaving (I knew from my lousy LEAD appraisal that I would be leaving as soon as JAL came back/I was already mostly packed and ended up leaving the very same day I talked with him, though I could have stayed overnight or a day or two), I was mostly in a fog for the days of mourning VPW ... my clearest memory is of sitting by the pond at Emporia pondering the events of those days. It was a difficult time.

TF

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I remember my then husband telling me VPW had died. I was sorry to hear it but in all honesty I never felt any great emotional loss. I joined in 1982 had taken PFAL, but VPW was to me just someone in authority a long way off--who hadn't been at all helpful in the real issues ( at least the real issues as far as I was concerned) in Alaska

After LCM came in power things got worse, a whole lot worse, very very quickly. I know that for those of you who were in the ministry longer and/or had met VPW this was a very painful and traumatic event and I am sorry you had to go through it. But I think for a lot of Believers that couldn't go ROA or had never seen VPW except on tape-it was far less painful--little did we know just how bad things were going to get..........

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I was on the field as a TC in STL. Leadership basically arranged everything so it would look like we were 'bent, but not broken' and that TWI would continue in its glory. When I got the first SIT alert, the one which said VP was in a physically weakened condition, I had no idea at first that he was close to death, but during the ensuing week before the next SIT alert informing us of his death, I couldn't help wondering what was really up. None of the people in my twig suspected anything and I heard nothing from any BC or higher.

Then on the morning of May 21 I got a call at 5:30 AM with the bad news. The 9th corps BC who called me sounded like he'd been crying a lot. Interestingly, our area was running a pfal foundational class and on the day he died was session 5. I wasn't at the session, but I think that's the one where VP says, "...and if I DIE TONIGHT...people it's still the word." Just a few more observations.

So Rascal, LCM didn't feed you wows huh? Man...they showed us a video once where one of the early wow years LCM didn't feed the wows; just cut 'em loose, and VP reamed him for that. It was like...Craig, how unloving can you be? What the hell were you thinking? Obviously any apologies LCM made then were superficial.

I was apprentice corps that year and in late April, just under a month before VP died, I got to go to HQ with other app corps. We stayed in a big house in St. Marys; HUGE house and the night we stayed over night they had a dance. It was weird, though. Most of the people who lived there were staffers and they all just seemed blase', unmotivated about anything, like they were thinking "what am I doing here?" It wasn't super heavy (this feeling) but it was noticeable.

Later that year I moved back to Michigan and both in STL and MI the general mood was that the ministry would survive under LCMs leadership. It wasn't until late 86 that I had any idea there would be problems of "biblical" proportions.

Edited by johniam
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I had been out of TWI for about a year. I was at work and I got a call from a very good friend that was still an innie. He told me that VPW had fallen asleep. I asked if there was any more information and whether there would be a service. He said no on both counts. I stared at the wall for about a half hour then got on with work. Later I told my wife, who was not active with TWI. She gave me a hug.

I remember realizing that there was no longer the TWI that I had known.

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I remember so much of this so well. I didn't know the WC were told not to call right away, because mine sure did. I came over first thing in the morning (2Life & husband never locked their door in case someone needed them in the middle of the night or something) and 2Life got up and came out to see if I was okay. I was, sort of. I was surprised no one had told us he was sick. There had been 24 hours of prayer for him a few days previously. Later, I was extremely shocked to find he had had melanoma, and the eye removal was related to that. Turns out that particular duplicity from TWI HQ was just the tip of the iceberg, eh?

WG

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really awkward time

at least it was for me

iwas on the wow year at the time

living with, among others, someone who had known the man personally

this individual was completely inconsolable about his death

and really seemed to resent those of us

who weren't just as broken up over it

i mean, yes it's always sad when someone dies

but since some people in the ministry

never got to meet the man personally

naturally we're not all going to react just the same about it

but then what the fudge do i know

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  • 7 months later...

I was just a "twiggy" by the time this happened. I remember answering the phone and hearing the voice explain an announcement was about to be read. The voice then said " When I finish reading I will hang up".In all the years since I never could get an answer to what happened or how he died. It was a subject that was off limits at the grassroots level. I had my suspicions but never really knew until I read it on Greasespot. This wasn't just another tragic cancer death, nor was it just the death of a respected leader. It was a death that completely unraveled what we had been taught about spirtuality. By his own teaching we were taught cancer was possesion. So then I begin to wonder; were we taught by someone who was possesed?Or even worse, if he was wrong about the posession what else was he wrong about? What did this all mean about the credability of beliefs that were now a part of who I had become? Well, many of those types of questions have since been answered for me. Maybe I should use this as fodder for a"3x5" but I wouldn't want to leave anyone out.

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I was attending twig in South Texas that year and was about 16. I remember getting the word from our twig leader and I was bummed for a few minutes. I'd met VP when I was younger so it had a little emotional content. Of course, at that age I was for more concerned about my social life, girlfriend, et cetera.

That fellowship was the last time I ever went to one where it was good. Limb and Branch coordinators may have existed, but they never turned up in our little town.

I too didn't know why VP died until later. Never seemed like a big deal to me or my family. People get old, people die. It's one of those things we can't avoid. I never really saw his death as some kind of failure of spirit. But there it is. We were never very high in TWI.

Later, we were in Corpus Christi and attending fellowship there. I got yelled at for wearing shorts and a t-shirt to a Sunday fellowship one time, and my step-father and mother ended up in some kind of fight with the Branch coordinator over something that I never troubled myself to learn the details of. We stopped going after that.

I living in Northern New Mexico after that and the Way might as well not have existed, so from late 85 to 87 I missed it all.

SFSailor

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  • 10 years later...

'Da Fog Years - TM. 1985 - 1989

Basically after Yak twig stuff, that group kept wandering around like they got hit by a bus for a while.   Geer tried to teach some BS on Corps nights about Legalism vs. Grace - some attempt at hypnotic mumbo jumbo about how he was the true ambassador of grace and everybody else has fallen into legalism like the 1st century church.   Geer published to books that were by VPW but said "edited posthumously by CG".   A real necromancer of a guy.  He also was real mean and ADHD so eventually he lost interest tormenting the BOT and flew back to Europe to bring the blessing of his personality back there.  

Eventually loytoy figured out the fork sticking in his eye was being wiggled from overseas, and gathered cowterd and dingdong out of their combined drooling state, and they basically signed a document telling Geer to f off.  Well, it started as a document.  Then it turned into a teaching.  Then it turned into teaching the book of Galatians.  The Galatians tapes.  Part 1 and Part 2.  Oh my.  The drama.  The emotion.  The discerning of spirits.  The number of things orbiting around Geer's head - straight out of a scene from the Haunted Mansion at Disneyland.  His face even transfigured itself into Dr. Wierwille once accidentally when reproving loytoy.  Oh, and also, this teaching series was the first to feature the "F" word in all parts of speech in a sentence - noun, pronoun, verb, adjective, and adverb.  Masterful piece of work there. 

In the midst of this, what else do we need to have?  Purges, of course.  The "loyalty" purge.  Loytoy sends out a letter to all Corps asking people to respond who they stood with.  A popular response was "why God and His Word of course".  BZZZT.  Wrong answer.  People stood "with" the apostle Paul, not just with God and His Word.  You are foggy my friend.  You probably need to hear the Galatians tapes, which will be running for all believers on the field.  Except Adv. Class grads only on Pt. 2 with the unique adjectives.  So the "loyalty" purge in various stages consumed about 4/5 of the leadership of the Way - 80% of the Corps left, along with about that many in the ministry.

Walter tries to teach Thessalonians on Corps night, or reteach the Univ. of Life Thess actually.  It is horrible.  A snooze-fest.  Loytoy decides since he is all that in a set of tights that he can fire the research department and just teach it all himself.  Except he knows jack about research.  So he taps Wayne to do it all.  He starts teaching Acts - the 8 sections from somewhere.  Writes the Rise and Expansion book.  Does R & E weekends at Emporia and around the country to try and regain some of the 80% that left.   Re-does the Foundational Class.  Comes to the premier in I swear to God an identical robe that Hugh Hefner wears in public.  

New concepts come from all this Acts stuff.  Loytoy gets the heavy revelation that the Word is Over the World.  Yeah, we have accomplished it.  Since the PFAL class has been available in every region of the world since sometime, it has been available for everyone in the world to get the Word.  So what's next?  Why, "The Prevailing Word" tm - to the world.  And of course we don't need WOW's anymore.  It's Way Disciple - the disciplined ones.  No more going to the Rock and believing God for your money for WOW cutting hair.  We're prevailing baby.  

More later....

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  • 5 months later...
On 12/31/2005 at 6:01 AM, WordWolf said:

As always,

we're looking for your recollections of events.

ANY recollections are appreciated.

This was the year vpw ran to Gartmore,

and the PoP was written after his death

in April 1985.

vpw taught on "the Hope" shortly before

he died.

It was a VERY busy year in twi.

What do you remember of it?

I lost a lot of weight, took the AC class in Rome City, which I hated.  Enlisted in the Navy in August, and started Boot Camp in October, and finished in December.  I went to Mississippi in Dec, and had a terrible Christmas.  1985 though for me was a great year; I accomplished so many different things that year.

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