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WordWolf

Did vpw cite his sources, or did he plagiarize?

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29 minutes ago, DontWorryBeHappy said:

However, i am completely confused as to why you seem to support the incredibly self-serving PI Of Gallagher and your RnR heroes. Why?

I think you may have missed my comment regarding my disappointment with R&R, and it was based primarily on what you have shared, along with two others.  I don't support them, I'm waiting to see them slip in their own muck.

As for Dan, as I had stated prior, I was already looking into this very topic on my own.  I don't actually support him, and was pretty surprised that he's already asking for money to help support his web site - they cost $10/month for a good hosting package, and Wordpress is free!  Shouldn't be much of a strain on his pocket if he really wants to get a message out.

But I am still reading his long-winded paper.  So far, he has been very analytical, comparing the two views on salvation.  The one thing I can say about that paper at this point is this: it doesn't seem to be plagiarized!

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8 minutes ago, JayDee said:

You’ll find that when DWBH tells you/us about these individuals, that he’s telling it like it is. No BS. He has no axe to grind. Just protecting people from the madness that is twi. 

Oh, I already know that.  I've read several of his first-hand accounts.  At first I was dumbfounded, then furious, and then I felt really heartbroken for all those that lived through that insanity. 

All I ever did was go to a local fellowship and the classes, and I did the way disciple program once.  So locally I really didn't see much of the manipulation, although I did become aware of an uneasiness in my gut that I couldn't figure out.  That was three years ago, and at that point I stopped inviting people to my fellowship, and gradually reduced my participation in the branch and fellowship activities.  Now I have nothing to do with TWI.

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6 minutes ago, Taxidev said:

Oh, I already know that.  I've read several of his first-hand accounts.  At first I was dumbfounded, then furious, and then I felt really heartbroken for all those that lived through that insanity. 

All I ever did was go to a local fellowship and the classes, and I did the way disciple program once.  So locally I really didn't see much of the manipulation, although I did become aware of an uneasiness in my gut that I couldn't figure out.  That was three years ago, and at that point I stopped inviting people to my fellowship, and gradually reduced my participation in the branch and fellowship activities.  Now I have nothing to do with TWI.

Taxi, :eusa_clap:

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38 minutes ago, JayDee said:

You’ll find that when DWBH tells you/us about these individuals, that he’s telling it like it is. No BS. He has no axe to grind. Just protecting people from the madness that is twi. 

Jay, how right you are!  Unlike many of the leaders of TWI, DWBH never exploited those around him, for personal gain.  DWBH had/has a strong moral compass; no one can accuse him pimping for VPW, or LCM.  I love DWBH's posts; I find them well-written, and very informative.  Sometimes, they make me laugh.  But, I know DWBH knew many of the top dogs, in TWI, and what they did behind the scenes.  IOWs, DWBH knew many of the leaders, and what they did in their personal lives.  I am so glad that DWBH is willing to share his experiences of TWI, with us. The more I learn about TWI, the more thankful I am, that I left.

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Thank you GVC. I appreciate your overly kind words. And, more importantly I appreciate what Pawtucket has done here for the last 18 years!! He is a personal hero of mine. He has suffered so very much for keeping this place alive. Few people really know how much. I do, and I love him and will do so with respect as long as I live. Like I said, he is a hero for truth, justice, and love. Just sayin’......

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On ‎4‎/‎2‎/‎2018 at 9:47 PM, waysider said:

At one time, there was another session, as well, that dealt with the "unforgivable sin". This session taught that people could supposedly be born again of the seed of the devil. I'm not sure why it was discontinued but I would assume it was too far over-the-edge for most students. I'm not sure where this material came from but I would be willing to bet it didn't originate with Wierwile.

I heard a couple of times that when some people heard that teaching, they were afraid they had committed the unforgiveable sin and had become seed.  So they discontinued it.

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32 minutes ago, outandabout said:

I heard a couple of times that when some people heard that teaching, they were afraid they had committed the unforgiveable sin and had become seed.  So they discontinued it.

It amazes me that TWI and not only TWI but other groups as well will take 1 verse and develop an elaborate doctrine around it. In this case John 8:44.

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9 hours ago, outandabout said:

I heard a couple of times that when some people heard that teaching, they were afraid they had committed the unforgiveable sin and had become seed.  So they discontinued it.

That subject is rather vague in Scripture. "Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit" is never defined.  Therefore, must not be that important, at least for the Christian. 

As a subject, it seems more like an inkblot. I once tried to find out, definitively, what "pulse" was in the OT.  Every online result was "It was a mixture of x, y and z, and we're selling it if you're interested."  Or the infamous "thorn in the flesh". where each speaker had a different problem, and it was the same one Paul complained about, by amazing coincidence. This subject, also, lends itself to lots of wild speculation with people certain of something nebulous.

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8 hours ago, Infoabsorption said:

It amazes me that TWI and not only TWI but other groups as well will take 1 verse and develop an elaborate doctrine around it. In this case John 8:44.

twi did that quite a bit. My usual rule is that- if twi based a doctrine on one verse or no verses, the doctrine should be presumed error until proved otherwise. So far, it's worked.  I had a thread somewhere about doctrines entirely built from one verse, I think.

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My best example of that was the pro-abortion doctrine. Until we "take our first breath", we're not born, and we die when we "take our last breath" (ZERO VERSES SO FAR.)  The one verse that comes up is when Gabriel spoke to Mary and said that "the holy thing" that would be born of her would be called The Son of God.  So, before Jesus' birth, he was a "thing."  But that's only in the KJV.  The other versions render that  'holy one" or "holy child" or otherwise.  A quick check of the Greek shows that this "THING" thing only occurs here, and the same word for "holy thing" here is translated either "holy one" or "saint" EVERYWHERE ELSE.  For consistency, read them all as "holy one/s".  Then twi's sole verse for "not a person" vanishes.  Worse, we see that other verses show a 3rd trimester kid can react and show emotion. (Elizabeth about John, when Mary arrived.)  AND he was called a "baby." At 6 months. We don't know when that all applied, but it was true by that time, which is 3 months earlier than twi said.  And this is not hard to find if one is looking.  And even after I posted all the verses that said that, vpw fans still posted right after that saying the "thing" thing.

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2 minutes ago, WordWolf said:

And this is not hard to find if one is looking.  And even after I posted all the verses that said that, vpw fans still posted right after that saying the "thing" thing.

I believe the most important verse for TWI was in the law, Leviticus I think, where it talks about causing a pregnant woman to lose her unborn child.  In the law, murder was punishable by death, but this was only punishable by a fine.  But what they seemed to have missed was, this loss of child was an accident, not on purpose.  So it was an accidental death, not murder.

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4 minutes ago, Taxidev said:

I believe the most important verse for TWI was in the law, Leviticus I think, where it talks about causing a pregnant woman to lose her unborn child.  In the law, murder was punishable by death, but this was only punishable by a fine.  But what they seemed to have missed was, this loss of child was an accident, not on purpose.  So it was an accidental death, not murder.

Right. We expect there to be a difference between murder (he tried to kill him and succeeded)  and manslaughter (he didn't mean to kill him, but it happened anyway.)  But twi never looked close enough-it saw what it wanted to see, The End.

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On 6/12/2018 at 12:25 PM, Infoabsorption said:

It amazes me that TWI and not only TWI but other groups as well will take 1 verse and develop an elaborate doctrine around it. In this case John 8:44.

This is absolutely no different than how native tribes come up with folklore.  Manually filling in the detail through imagination where only the sketch of an outline truly exists.

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"This is absolutely no different than how native tribes come up with folklore.  Manually filling in the detail through imagination where only the sketch of an outline truly exists."

 

"Jesus wept." ...I think we ought to take that verse  and build a whole doctrine around it. We could create a youtube channel that dramatizes the doctrine with live actors. In the opening scene, we see Jesus attending a twig fellowship, having been witnessed to by a very attractive young female WOW Ambassador.  In a later episode, and without warning, he discovers he's been the victim of the old *date & switch*  routine. Then, an unseen Ron Howard, acting as the narrator, proclaims with a rueful voice... "Jesus Wept".

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We sure came far afield in this thread. I wanted to talk about vpw's plagiarism when I started it. These things sure go wherever once they're started...

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For perspective, I would simply ask how any of the discussion of dispensations/administrations and such has anything to do with the thread title/subject?

This seems to now belong in the doctrinal forum.

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21 hours ago, Rocky said:

For perspective, I would simply ask how any of the discussion of dispensations/administrations and such has anything to do with the thread title/subject?

This seems to now belong in the doctrinal forum.

 

I'd agree, and perhaps this part can be split off from the original "cite his sources" thread.

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9 hours ago, Twinky said:

 

I'd agree, and perhaps this part can be split off from the original "cite his sources" thread.

I guess you and I were the only ones who got the memo. Oh well. :wave:

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23 hours ago, Rocky said:

I guess you and I were the only ones who got the memo. Oh well. :wave:

I got the memo. It used to be easier to do than it is now. I will look into it. Meanwhile carry one

:asdf:

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I have split what I think were posts regarding "Dispensationalism"  to a new thread in Doctrinal by that name, located here:

http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/topic/24710-dispensationalism/

let me know by PM if something was moved which should not have been, or if something more needs to be moved. Thank you, Meanwhile please keep discussion in *this* thread to the topic in the original title.

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On ‎6‎/‎13‎/‎2018 at 12:57 PM, Taxidev said:

I believe the most important verse for TWI was in the law, Leviticus I think, where it talks about causing a pregnant woman to lose her unborn child.  In the law, murder was punishable by death, but this was only punishable by a fine.  But what they seemed to have missed was, this loss of child was an accident, not on purpose.  So it was an accidental death, not murder.

 

On ‎6‎/‎13‎/‎2018 at 1:03 PM, WordWolf said:

Right. We expect there to be a difference between murder (he tried to kill him and succeeded)  and manslaughter (he didn't mean to kill him, but it happened anyway.)  But twi never looked close enough-it saw what it wanted to see, The End.

Of course, the OT also has a punishment for manslaughter (flee to a city of refuge until the death of the High Priest).  The person who causes the pregnant woman to lose her child does not face that punishment, either.

George

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7 hours ago, GeorgeStGeorge said:

 

Of course, the OT also has a punishment for manslaughter (flee to a city of refuge until the death of the High Priest).  The person who causes the pregnant woman to lose her child does not face that punishment, either.

George

Hi George, 

Did you get the memo? 

This thread is about whether vp cited his sources (i.e. plagiarism).
:wave:
 

 

On 6/20/2018 at 8:30 PM, Modgellan said:

I have split what I think were posts regarding "Dispensationalism"  to a new thread in Doctrinal by that name, located here:

http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/topic/24710-dispensationalism/

 

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