Leaderboard

I was talking to Rumrunner one night and mentioned to him that we could easily start our own splinter group and start raking in the bucks...we both laughed and we both knew that it was true...any former member,( especially with corps experience) could put together a package and market it...start a website, put together some tapes and get your tax exempt, corporate splinter group on the road and moving... Call it..."The love of Christ truth ministries international"...sounds good...hmmmm, maybe a theological degree from some mail order outfit would help... ...of course we were joking over a few beers... ...makes me wonder about these guys who actually did it...and how they sleep at night.

Garth, knock off the smug self-righteous attitude. We all know you hate God, Christ, the Bible - we get it. You've let us all know, you've made no bones about it. You always come and drop you little hate bombs in the doctrinal threads. Read my post again. I used Moses as someone, who, if the Bible is true - and I believe it is, was the head of a theocracy, but had the "signs" to back it up. Thus, the people followed. Other then him, every theocracy has been man, playing God. I then gave some examples of results that happen when men play god. As for the one to come, I believe He will. You, on the other hand agree with those Peter mentions - they scoff, and wonder where is his coming, its been so long... Good for you. He's either coming or he isn't. I believe he will someday, you believe its a myth. Fine. I don't hate you or come on with a nasty attitude towards you - but for some reason you feel you must. So, continue to rage against the machine Garth, just quit taking it out on everyone who believes differently than you.

Like all things twi.....more hoops were continually added to the "training" process. Take pfal....then intermediate....and later, the advanced class to be "fully instructed." THEN.....you really need to take other "advanced studies" classes ie The Renewed Mind, Witnessing and Undershepherding, The Way Tree, Keys to Biblical Research, Dealing with the Adversary, etc. Go WOW.....grow 10 years in 1 year. You've got to go, to know. Go WOW again....this time, do it better. Do it right. Go Corps....spiritual training for God's best twig coordinators. Upon graduation, go forth to serve. BUT......many 3rd, 4th and 5th corps were "invited" back for another inresidence block. Wierwille wanted these selected corps grads to take part in all inresidence activities....to be zealous for all things twi. Yet, on several occasions, wierwille expressed disgust and contempt towards certain individual corps grads......who, according to him, were slothful and unappreciative of this "invite." Years later.....martindale expected ALL CORPS GRADS to sit thru weekly corps meetings, submit reports and attend all branch/limb meetings, etc. If one didn't jump thru all the hoops......the corps grad status was withdrawn and one was labeled "corps alumni." Even as early as 1978, wierwille had to strong-arm some corps grads to "stay committed to his directives." He was clearly not happy with some corps/clergy that were "spreading their wings and flying away." IMO.....it had everything to do with REALITIES OF LIFE......marriage, kids, career, home mortgage, career advancements, neighbors, community, etc......and wierwille could no longer CONTROL their decisions.

It seems that the thing Wierwille taught best was how to set up a tax exempt organization for the purpose of generating a tax free income... ...Bruce Mahone still believes in the law of believing? What's wrong with these people? Couldn't they find a real job? These splinter groups seem like tumors that keep popping up...Oh well, another reason to keep posting.

I am not a socialist nor do I advocate a socialist state. God wants us to depend on Him and Him alone. . . . okay. . . at the end of your work week. . . tell your employer God has you covered and say no thanks to your pay check. Who are we to tell God how He will provide for those in need? Everyone must submit to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except from God, and those that exist are instituted by God. 2 So then, the one who resists the authority is opposing God's command, and those who oppose it will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do good and you will have its approval. 4 For government is God's servant to you for good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, because it does not carry the sword for no reason. For government is God's servant, an avenger that brings wrath on the one who does wrong. 5 Therefore, you must submit, not only because of wrath, but also because of your conscience. 6 And for this reason you pay taxes, since the [authorities] are God's public servants, continually attending to these tasks. 7 Pay your obligations (to everyone: taxes to those you owe taxes, tolls to those you owe tolls, respect to those you owe respect, and honor to those you owe honor. Government does not take the place of God. . . but God uses governments. . . for His purposes. In our society. . . which is governed. . . we have social welfare programs in place to help care for the needy. Thank God.

markomalley, I take it you don't consider yourself a "social justice type"? Yet, I think I am safe in concluding you are a Christian? How do you separate the two? Do you not embrace the ideal of social justice? Isn't that what you look for in part at the return? The last will be first? Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted. Blessed are the gentle, for they shall inherit the earth. Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied. Blessed are the merciful, for they shall receive mercy. Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God. Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. Blessed are those who have been persecuted for the sake of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are you when people insult you and persecute you, and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of Me. Rejoice and be glad, for your reward in heaven is great. . . . A society embracing the care and concern for citizens unable to care for themselves is a noble, right and Godly thing. Because Jesus didn't say it was the role of government through taxation it is somehow a misguided societal and governmental responsibility? On what planet? Our government is of the people, by the people, and for the people. . . . our society is governed. . . . Wow. . . talk about missing the forest for the trees. That does not prohibit the responsibility of churches and Christian individuals. . . who should be at the forefront setting examples, but our social welfare programs reflect the guiding principles with which our society functions. GOOD principles. Those who are able to give . . . those who have been given the most. . . and all good gifts are from God. . . have the GREATER responsibility to care for those in need. And as you say. . . we cannot serve two masters. . . God and mammon. God is a bit socialist in this respect. . . take another look. And. . . . He takes care of all the sparrows. . . not just the Christian ones.

When I saw this kind of thing in my former splinter group I considered it leadership stroking them with one hand in order to beat them down with the other. I think my particular false Apostle balanced stroking them enough so that he could beat them into submission but still have them willing to be thankful for it.

Tolerance. . . an interesting concept. . . not often displayed toward the Christian(it is still PC to Christian bash). . . . but, on the other hand there are some groups claiming Christianity as their faith who really do invite it. . . . Here in the doctrinal forum one would think we would be somewhat isolated from this on threads designated for the serious discussion of Christian issues. As long as I have been here this has never been the case. As long as the topic's don't invite it. . . I don't think tolerance need mostly be reserved for the non-Christian. . . This threads topic was "Oops" . . . . hardly controversial. . . . _________________________________ We have ammendments in place within our Constitutions which protect us from a theocracy. . . . Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances. The term "separation of church and state" doesn't appear in the constitution. Neither does "right to privacy". But, the concept and ideas are there. . . . just like the term trinity is not in the bible. . .or rapture. . . but, we see the concept and ideas. We use theology to express them. . .and we have the judiciary to interpret the concepts within the constitution. . . . to rule on the constitutionality of an issue. In recent history. . . I think the closest we have come to something akin to a theocracy is GWB, whose foreign policy decisions where based in large part on his personal beliefs about God. That his orders came straight from God and that he was on a mission from God. Your point Sunesis, ". . . . for a theocracy to work, the people would have to believe, without a doubt, that their "ruler" was called of God, and walked with God.. . . . " Is right on IMO. Isn't that what happened in part with GWB? The far Christian right did believe he was called of God and was doing God's will? What a mess! So many people. . . women and children have died because this one man thought his mission was from God almighty. It appears his faith was often the guiding force in his decision process. . . without the aid of reason or empirical evidence. . . the ends justifying the means and outright lies part of his arsenal. Is that really what is happening with Obama? I have to wonder. After 8 years of war and the systematic dismantling of our constitution and economy. . . . someone new comes along. He offers hope to a really weary nation. . . (I am surprised the misery index wasn't trotted out more). . . .He is young, he energizes, he offers change. . . . and he is seen as a saving grace for our country. The first African American President in a country whose recent history includes segregation. . . it is a huge historical event. . . we have changed. . . evolved and it is evident in his election. We can fix this mess. He is viewed as a savior of sorts. . .as was Reagan, FDR, Lincoln and others. Hopefully, the right man at the right time. . . . desperately needed. I just don't think it is remotely in the same category as GWB and his mission from God. As far as reaching out to Muslims. . . . wouldn't that be a good thing. This is a population we have persecuted for the last eight years. . . . we have not really been tolerant of Islam as a whole. . . . despite GWB saying we were not at war with a religion. . . it really seems we have been on a crusade. As far as Obama not yet having a church(I didn't know this). . . . given what happened at his last church. . . the scrutiny. . . the judgments. . . is he really free to worship where he wants without subjecting an entire congregation to public inspection? Seems almost kind on his part. And what if he is fond of the Muslim faith? It is part of the tradition he grew up with. . . He has the right in this country to worship as he wishes. But, he is not attending mosque, just reaching out. That is no threat to us as a nation. . . . Is he really using religion as a platform or basis for making decisions? Romans 13:1 says God is control. . . once Obama thinks his secret mission starts coming directly from God like GWB. . . then we need to start worrying. . . . I get your points. . . I just look at it differently. :)

Wayside Chapel of Charitable Chugging and Charismatic Gifts (Dogs kenneled by the week or month)

. . . There's a church for rent just down the road . . . . . . I could use a few bucks . . .

Believing equal receiving,majical formula,anyone can do it,no special skills, just take a class give us some cif,fellowship,and you too can be doing signs miracles and wonders.God is not our slave where we demand somthing and he(she) delievers. Law of believing?To quote a movie "its more like a set of guiudelines". Offshoots are like food chains all the same and not very good for you.

Can you name us _any_ theocracy that has never been a 'natural man theocracy'? ... Didn't think so. Oh by the way, naming the one where Christ comes back, is naming one that is in 'promise' only. Ie., according to your religious teaching. ... And its been around 2,000 years since the time of Christ. Maybe that's why we keep hearing of all these End Times prophecies of Christ's return being Just Around the Corner, again and again. People kinda get tired after waiting and waiting, and "He hasn't come back yet.", so they start to disperse from the teaching, only to have the preachers get their attention back by going "Ohh look! According to such-and-such Prophecy, He's coming back Real Soon Now!", and everybody comes back to church. Talk about your ultimate scams! <_<

It is scary. I think for a theocracy to work, the people would have to believe, without a doubt, that their "ruler" was called of God, and walked with God, as they believed Moses was. Yet, in order for him to be believed, Israel needed to see miracles, which he provided. Hey, won't the antichrist do the same thing someday? Without a true, called of God leader, a theocracy will quickly turn into creulty and death. Witness the Inquisition, Islam where it rules - any place where the leader walks with God, if you do not obey, since you will burn in hell or not enter into paradise, than the civil authorities have the right to torture and kill you since God hates you for not keeping his precepts - you are worthless to God. A natural man theocracy is always hell - although, people do seem to appreaciate the law and order aspects of it. Many times, that's how those religious leaders rise to power - promises of law and order. I too believe religion should stay out of government. That's also why no school prayer has never bothered me. Jesus said, pray privately in your closet, not in public for all to see. I think prayer is something personal and private, why a kid should be forced to pray in a public situation in school or whereever always puzzled me.

Sorry :( wrong forum

After reading account after account of the sexual predation, taking bribes (special "offerings for da manogawd and such), along with its lack of report to the irs, drugging of women, intellectual robbery (plagiarism).. how is it that he actually got away with it? Apparently he didn't exactly "get away with it" prior to 1942.. at least in his church. but after this, he seemed able to do pretty much as he pleased. I didn't even hear of any of this prior to Waydale and Greasespot.. granted.. in the late seventies and eighties twi had the resources to just make the "problems" go away. But I've read accounts of his predation on women in the late sixties and early seventies, when twi was really still in its formative years. No angry husband was able to "off" him.. although he admitted a couple of people tried to, in the early years.. never said why. does anyone know when this occurred? No charges of plagiarism, or copyright infringement, with the one exception: the blue sing along the way books. But those didn't bear his name either. I don't know if I'd say his hand picked goons were competent enough to really protect him. Was he just that lucky? Or did he make some kind of Faustian deal of sorts?

I'm posting this link because I've been asked about this group. It is a spinoff group of twi. Capital Area Biblical Studies Fellowship

Mark said, God wants us to depend on Him and Him alone. Socialism substitutes God with the State as the source. Socialism is a grave moral evil. Thank you. Well said. wG

A Corps person could marry a non-Corps person and initially that was okay. Later it became that the non-Corps person was encouraged to participate in Corps training. The Corps partner might be on staff, and the non-Corps spouse participated in the program. Then, both had to go in residence together, with the older Corps spouse required to participate fully. No special privileges, no proper job (to the extent that staff jobs were proper jobs). It became a requirement. If both didn't participate, obviously neither was really cut out to be Corps. It was all about re-training, beating down further, to fit into the Martindale model. Can't have older Corps out there who might still be able to think!!

The concept of a wall of separation between church and state comes from a letter written by Thomas Jefferson to the Danbury Baptist Church. The letter was written to reassure a religious minority in the new state of Connecticut that their rights were not something that was conveyed to them by a legislative body; rather, those rights were immutable. The letter itself says: To messers Nehemiah Dodge, Ephraim Robbins, & Stephen S. Nelson a committee of the Danbury Baptist association in the state of Connecticut. Gentlemen The affectionate sentiments of esteem & approbation which you are so good as to express towards me, on behalf of the Danbury Baptist association, give me the highest satisfaction. my duties dictate a faithful & zealous pursuit of the interests of my constituents, and in proportion as they are persuaded of my fidelity to those duties, the discharge of them becomes more & more pleasing. Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man & his god, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, thus building a wall of separation between church and state. [Congress thus inhibited from acts respecting religion, and the Executive authorised only to execute their acts, I have refrained from presenting even occasional performances of devotion presented indeed legally where an Executive is the legal head of a national church, but subject here, as religious exercises only to the voluntary regulations and discipline of each respective sect.] Adhering to this exp​ression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties. I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection and blessing of the common Father and creator of man, and tender you for yourselves and your religious association, assurances of my high respect & esteem. (signed) Thomas Jefferson Jan.1.1802. The first amendment, itself, says: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. You can judge for yourself, in this particular context, whether Jefferson's letter is a good exposition and an accurate representation of the text that is actually in the "Establishment Clause" of the First Amendment or not. I don't particularly see any conflict when reading the entire context of Mr. Jefferson's short note to these people. However, do I see any basis for the current way that the "wall of separation between church and state" has been applied in modern days? I absolutely do not see that. ((placing hands over head waiting on the onslaught from Garth & Co)) The Establishment Clause is not the subject of this thread, though (the way I see it), the subject is the intermingling of Church and State. Looking at it from a doctrinal point of view. Consider the famous quote from Jesus, as recorded in Mark 12:17, "Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's." It seems that Jesus clearly understood the roles of a non-religious government and that of the religious establishment. (look at the context of that verse to see what I mean) Consider social justice efforts in the Bible. You will see no examples of where a secular state is charged with looking after the poor. For example, in Leviticus 19:10, And you shall not strip your vineyard bare, neither shall you gather the fallen grapes of your vineyard; you shall leave them for the poor and for the sojourner: I am the LORD your God. There was no commandment to turn over part of the harvest to the government for government redistribution of wealth. Those who owned fields and vineyards were told to leave a bit behind. It was an individual call to charity, not a call for government action. Consider in the New Testament. Acts 4:34-35, There was not a needy person among them, for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the proceeds of what was sold and laid it at the apostles' feet; and distribution was made to each as any had need. Who effected distribution? Not the government, but the church. Likewise, there was no compulsion to sell the surplus and pay the proceeds as a tax: it was voluntary. Then you have the other passage that is frequently used by the "social justice" types: Mat 25:34-36 Then the King will say to those at his right hand, 'Come, O blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.' Mat 25:37-39 Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see thee hungry and feed thee, or thirsty and give thee drink? And when did we see thee a stranger and welcome thee, or naked and clothe thee? And when did we see thee sick or in prison and visit thee?' Mat 25:40 And the King will answer them, 'Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brethren, you did it to me.' You will, again, note that there was not a call to be taxed and to have a government, either earthly or spiritual, make the distribution. There was an obligation laid for each person to take action. Knowing this, it amazes me that the churches would want to be intertwined with government. One would think they would be familiar with the verse, No servant can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon." (Luke 16:13) When they compromise themselves by acceptance of government money, and the government terms and conditions that go along with that government money, they compromise themselves.

HEY, right now page one of this thread has a couple of exterminator adds on top. Right now that is a little irony that I can get into..... Get thee behind me spidey-butt. (See post #12) Good one Waysider, and a well loaded statement too. hehehe (yep, it was spelling that I had to correct....sigh)

Oops, sorry, a little embarassed too. I see that Bramble posted #9 on this thread but you; Tzaia; posted #11 which was the one which I had quoted. Dear Tzaia, I can sympathize and relate to how you feel about prophecy. While hypothetically speaking I think that a prophecy may be genuine I find that in practise the prospect has me feeling more than a little feisty. I feel that for me the prospect alone seems to have virtually every one of my defenses at the ready. And I would really, really hope that for me that God would be the very first to appreciate my willingness to duke it out with the purported prophet/prophetess for the sake of proving things to be true and good verses just another jerkwater prophet who can not see past his/her own personal agenda and sells it in God's name. And thank you for giving me the context of the vision that lead to this thread as far as me being able to understand a bit of where all the creepy imagery was coming from. I do not know EL. Nor do I know JAL's marraige history, heck I don't even know how many times he's been married if at all more than the one wife I remember hearing about in the old days. But my supposed personal prophecy (that my very own Grandpa's warning to me started me questioning the validity of) was given by a prophet that was very close to JAL in the days when he was moving that completely bogus momentus class. And if the vision that EL heard of was given by anyone that was associated with the prophet that JAL was working with in those days then I am just sorry for the pain that considering these things must have caused her to feel. I'll just call this supposed prophet "Greg Ferret" for now, I honestly don't remember if his first name is "Craig or Greg", but the "Ferret" part simply amuses me. It does roughly rhyme with the guy's real last name. DEAR BOWTWI, THANK YOU, THAT'S HOW IT IS LOOKING TO ME TOO IN A REAL BIG WAY! Awe, thank you Dot. Yes, those things do bless me. But if they had been posted with any implication of "Thus saith the Lord" involved that even though I really, REALLY like the sentiment I would be on guard in a big, big way. I guess I've seen to many prophecies end up falling to the ground. And if they were said as prophecies I would then have to deal with a whole other level of tension.

Good point. As soon as he heard about the young, naive, idealistic, casual-about-sex Christians of the House of Acts, he rushed out to Haight-Ashbury to win them over. Of course, while he was there, he asked about orgies and supposedly spent enough time in San Francisco's "adult" bookstores and so on to get the pornographic photos and video he used for the CFS class. All in all, he managed to get a lot done in one trip..... The House of Acts Christians he subverted (which was "some of them") became the sales force he needed, as the bookend to Leonard's class and Bullinger's books. Now he had something to sell and people to advertise it. After that, it was just a matter of printing books, making appearances, and, eventually, taping classes on audio and video. Other people, to a sociopath, are insignificant insects. Other people only gain meaning when the sociopath can get something out of them- then they become a COMMODITY. And that's what twi's people were- they were sources of income, sources of adulation and "worship" for vpw, both the ego-stroke and the money. People paid him for lording over their lives. No, this is a common misconception- she never said that. http://urbanlegends.about.com/od/dubiousquotes/a/antoinette.htm http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/550/did-marie-antoinette-really-say-let-them-eat-cake http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Let_them_eat_cake

This tells me there are still some people whose critical thinking skills have not clicked on.

Straight out of the PFAL video / film. Filmed in 1965.

I listened to a couple of minutes of one of the teachings. One Word "BORING". If I had to listen to that day in and day out I would kill myself. Reminds me of when my mother-in-law came to a ROA and went to the tent for older people (whatever that was called)and heard Don Wierwille teach. She said if anyone wants to be put to sleep, they should go hear him teach. It was kind of funny, especially coming from my mother-in-law because she was an insomniac.

A chance for all you Corps grads to fellowship with Tom Jenkinson again... http://cabsf.org/homefellowships/

I don't know if he ever claimed to heal anyone but he did claim that God spoke to him and told him to marry Donna. He did mention that wasn't how it worked for most people but he was really busy and didn't have time to date like normal people so God had to tell him who to marry. Wow, he didn't have time to date but he had a lot of time to .......................................... Didn't he have the gift of Dance?

I wonder how many "ministries" started at just such an event..

Actually, there is a wayside chapel with a vet or something out in front of it down the road too. . .

In heaven there is no beer . . .

I mean, why didn't Bruce simply join Finnagins group?...Oh, I get it...Vince didn't offer him a paycheck that was as good as starting his own thing...and besides, now Bruce can be the mog...what a deal. They learned their lessons well.

it all looks mighty familiar!

Looks like it is. There is no statement of beliefs.

Is that Bruce Mah0ne's group?

:)

Good for you for reaching out and saying you were wrong. Most people are forgiving when they spot humility in someone they love. I was horrible, too. I apologized to my pre-twi-friends when I could find them, also. My BEST friend in college I was not able to find until two yrs. ago. I had always mourned the loss of her friendship after one day on campus when I was doing my know-it-all Way THANG, as a new Way-convert, and she turned to me and said, "I've been a Christian all my life. I don't need YOU to tell me what the Bible says!" as she walked off and out of my life. Anyway, I spotted her address on our college alumni address database in September two yrs. ago after trying to look her up for a long time with no success. I prayed about it until December--about what to say in a letter. Then, I wrote her a letter and apologized and asked her to forgive me in a Christmas card. She didn't write back until Easter time when she sent me an Easter card telling me how surprised she was to hear from me--but pleasantly surprised. I'll cherish that card forever! We are now regular email buddies. Hopefully, we will be able to get together someday and see each other face to face. This brings tears to my eyes just to think about it! The 12 Step Program teaches another way to make amends, if it’s better not to bring up the past, is to treat the other person better when you're with them--to be the respectful, loving friend or family member you wish you'd been in the past. That's what I strive to do now. My family was very rude and controlling towards me when I was "in" and I felt, as an adult, it was my prerogative to associate with whomever and whatever religious group I chose. For that reason, I have never felt the need to apologize to them for the way I acted because they were behaving even more arrogantly and all-knowing than I was, if that's possible. But, of course I dropped the know-it-all attitude by degrees (I wish I could say right away) after leaving the group. On second thought, I think I will apologize to my dad, as I'm reading over this. I think I do owe him an apology. He took the class and I was very controlling towards him during that time. Thanks Pawtucket once again for your labor of love in presenting us with this free therapy board. You are amazing :)

John Calvin had no problem with those disagreed with him. They were quickly and efficiently banished or executed. Michael Servitus, who was basically a Unitarian (not believing Jesus was God) was burned at the stake with green wood, so it would take a lot longer. Calvin's government decided what food was placed on the table and how much, what colors were to be worn, and could enter into private homes at least once a year for inspections. Laughing in public was prohibited. Naming children after saints was against the law. He basically had a "Christian" Taliban in place in the 16th century. Nice guy. WG

Maybe they had subconscious memories of song.

You have nice personal prophesies much better than spiders and noses.

There's a thread on Calvinism in this forum. Calvin firmly believed that church and state should be intermingled. Scary, scary, scary. WG

I guess I'm not doing a very good job of explaining this Bolski. It's not the fear that you'll become a grease spot. It's not the fear that you don't measure up to your fellow believers. It's a fear that the adversary might attack your mind because you know you're not being "all that you can be". It's a very personal fear, independent of what others are doing. And it's woven ever so intricately through all the PFAL series classes.

Nah--That's the fear that comes as part of "The One Household/Hedge of Protection" package. What I had in mind was more like that ever present fear that always lurked just below the surface that you might be entertaining little spiritual friends and, if you were, would anyone find out? You know, that pesky concern that you may not be renewing your mind enough or speaking in tongues enough or reading "The Word" enough or retemorizing scripture enough like all the classes say you should. I mean, how do you ever know when it's "enough"? Can it ever be "enough"?

Good thread "sider". Fear was laced throughout all the classes and teachings of "der veg". That was a great "tool" which was exploited more and more over the years to keep people from leaving. In fact in the last few years I was around we heard things like "God won't even spit in your direction unless you give beyond the tithe" and "if you forsake the household of Zion you are out in the wilderness and away from God's protection." What a crock.

I physically left in about 1990 but, mentally, I checked out about 10 years prior to that. I like to say I was in "coast mode" because I didn't get involved in running classes and handling logistics. I was a twigster. The last twig I was in for those years was very insulated though not really isolated. The twig leader must have known what was going on because he had been active and tight with HQ since taking PFAL in the 1950's. Still, none of us in the twig had any idea this stuff was going on. The "ribbon of fear" I am referencing is the ribbon that is laced throughout the classes , books, tapes, and such, not so much the fear that was in the rantings and ravings and daily activities you are thinking of.

So anyhow, My point was that there is an element of fear that is woven into the very fabric of the PFAL series that plays a very integral role in the structure of the TWI belief system. There is an ever present fear that you may be inviting devil spirits by not properly renewing your mind. There is a fear that others may detect your unrenewed thinking and draw their own conclusions. It's always there. It's woven throughout the PFAL series of classes. Either you drive your mind to adopt the approved TWI mindset or you become a master of disguising your true thoughts and emotions. Either way, you lose.

The Corps at my class discouraged note taking.. but that was just at my class.. The ones I ran later with different people we did not discourage it but I remember it was always recommended you just listen so as not to miss anything... being a tactile person I actually retain stuff better if I hand write it. typing does not seem to have the same impact as hand writting for me.... i am not sure why but there it is.

Excellent point, TC

How come we couldn't take notes? Perhaps if we wrote down our questions we would have realized how ridiculous it all was.

Which makes them different than standard evangelical/fundamentalist due to the becoming part.

Session seven Listening with a porpoise 1. What are the five steps the serpent used to deceive Eve? ANSWER Step #1 He got Eve to QUESTION the integrity of "The Word". etc., etc. (Be careful---this could happen to you.) 2. Who has power and authority over the world today? ANSWER Satan 3. Where do sickness and death come from? ANSWER Satan yada, yada, yada----