Outside, you could shout as much as you liked. The walls of Zion are thick and don't let the sounds in.
Yep, that was until the internet, Waydale, and Grease Spot. It's common knowledge now. I think their long term damage control / recovery plan has been to quelch the yelling, put on a veneer of "we are oh so nice now," attempt to legitimize themselves in coporate 501c3 related lingo, and put out living god's word as a family. It fools some but not too many.
Yep, that was until the internet, Waydale, and Grease Spot. It's common knowledge now. I think their long term damage control / recovery plan has been to quelch the yelling, put on a veneer of "we are oh so nice now," attempt to legitimize themselves in coporate 501c3 related lingo, and put out living god's word as a family. It fools some but not too many.
Yes, now. Not before the lawsuits... Not before WayDale and GreaseSpot... before that we were like sheep led to the slaughter. We didn't know, and the information was hidden. Now anyone who has access to the internet can find the truth - thanks to people like you, Excathedra!! Thank you for what you have posted here! It helped me to see what twi and VP were really like. Thank you so much! Without you, I would still be in it!
Thank you, Pawtucket, for this site, and everyone who posts here who make the truth known!
I hope they don't really think that releasing a class that says pre-marital sex is not in accord with the bible makes up for all the wrong done over the years.
Looking back, I suppose there were quite a few of us that were completely oblivious to the sex stuff. No doubt it occurred. I think they didn't bother with us 'spiritual nerds'. We weren't nerdy looking or acting, just goofy for Jesus. We were like the 'Untouchables'. Even if they asked us point-blank if we wanted to have sex, we probably would have said something like, "Yeah, right, good one." and rolled our eyes and reported for duty to Bless Patrol at 3 am.
To answer the question, no, it wasn't something that was taught to the masses. The only stories we (us nerds) ever heard about stuff like that involved John L. , Dave S. and maybe a couple of others. There were actually some good doobies in the 'Way Corpse' as some of you condescending refer to us as.
Ya, Living God's Word as a Family. Too little, too late.
I don't seem to remember that class really covering extramarital sex at all... But when I took it I was a bit distracted by an accidental injury and ER visit the first day of class... We tried to cancel, but the coordinator convinced us it was better to hear da wurd than have me rest that night. I do remember something about only touching a girl where her soccer uniform didn't cover??
I don't seem to remember that class really covering extramarital sex at all... But when I took it I was a bit distracted by an accidental injury and ER visit the first day of class... We tried to cancel, but the coordinator convinced us it was better to hear da wurd than have me rest that night. I do remember something about only touching a girl where her soccer uniform didn't cover??
. . .
They mentioned Joseph in the OT, . . . it was his fault for letting Potifer's wife get too far . . . he'd let his guard down and should of had someone with him etc etc.
They mentioned Joseph in the OT, . . . it was his fault for letting Potifer's wife get too far . . . he'd let his guard down and should of had someone with him etc etc.
Other than that I can't recall anything.
That's because the adversary had you guys distracted. :biglaugh: Now get your spiritual goals in order!
I will post up some more information a little later. I do remember that adultery was a big no-no in that class though as was pre-marital sex.
There are 16 articles on www.abouttheway.org with a wealth of description of how TWI leaders recruited women, what was (and was not) in the Way sex class, first person memoirs of people involved in some way in sexual misconduct, Way "theology" of sex, lawsuits over sexual misconduct, and so forth. It's the most detailed and broadest ranging material you can find on the subject. The disease was systemic- it started in the root and spread throughout the whole Way tree. There was much more harm done than anyone will ever know.
Go to www.abouttheway.org , click on the "Lawsuits/ Sexual Misconduct" tab and you will see brief overviews of the 16 articles.
They mentioned Joseph in the OT, . . . it was his fault for letting Potifer's wife get too far . . . he'd let his guard down and should of had someone with him etc etc.
Other than that I can't recall anything.
Huh???????? Where did that come from???? I remember back in the 70's when Walter (anyone remember Walter?), taught about Joseph's stamina in that very same situation. So now it's Joe's fault? Who the fugg comes up with all this BS anyway?? Twi could teach a chameleon a thing or two, eh?
There are 16 articles on www.abouttheway.org with a wealth of description of how TWI leaders recruited women, what was (and was not) in the Way sex class, first person memoirs of people involved in some way in sexual misconduct, Way "theology" of sex, lawsuits over sexual misconduct, and so forth. It's the most detailed and broadest ranging material you can find on the subject. The disease was systemic- it started in the root and spread throughout the whole Way tree. There was much more harm done than anyone will ever know.
Go to www.abouttheway.org , click on the "Lawsuits/ Sexual Misconduct" tab and you will see brief overviews of the 16 articles.
John
"There are 16 articles on www.abouttheway.org with a wealth of descriptions---"
Looking back, I suppose there were quite a few of us that were completely oblivious to the sex stuff. No doubt it occurred. I think they didn't bother with us 'spiritual nerds'. We weren't nerdy looking or acting, just goofy for Jesus. We were like the 'Untouchables'. Even if they asked us point-blank if we wanted to have sex, we probably would have said something like, "Yeah, right, good one." and rolled our eyes and reported for duty to Bless Patrol at 3 am.
To answer the question, no, it wasn't something that was taught to the masses. The only stories we (us nerds) ever heard about stuff like that involved John L. , Dave S. and maybe a couple of others. There were actually some good doobies in the 'Way Corpse' as some of you condescending refer to us as.
Waylaid
I meant 'condescendingly'. Sorry.
There were a LOT of good Christians who wanted to serve God who went into the Way Corps.
There were a significant number of numbskulls who also went into the Way Corps.
victor paul wierwille carefully selected his co-conspirators (who can keep their mouth shut?)
and his victims (who won't run to the police?)
That's one reason he never was charged with a crime when he was alive.
So, some Way Corps never heard a single thing about this. Those of you who didn't, consider
that the only form of real compliment vpw ever gave-
he thought you were incapable of being corrupted.
That having been said, a number of people WERE capable of being corrupted, and WERE corrupted.
They did things like spy out vpw's victims, set up vpw's victims, and "exit-counsel" vpw's
victims so they didn't go to the police.
The mixed emotions a lot of us get from the Way Corps is that vpw meant it as a tool for control-
and successfully used it as such to a greater or lesser degree. Some people to this day
consider the Way Corps to have been nothing but positive and hide from what vpw used it for.
THOSE are the people who give it the WORST name and THOSE are the people who have stirred up the
For those who are unclear about this, all the sex stuff started with victor paul wierwille.
Not only did he rape, molest, and drug lots of Christian women after telling them it was
their duty and privilege to "bless" him sexually,
but he taught others-including l craig martindale- to be twofold the child of hell that he
himself was.
vpw was the one who taught lcm all this. lcm was an unimaginative Christian jock in college
when vpw found him and indoctrinated him.
Dot Matrix
"Posted 20 November 2003 - 10:38 AM
I heard from, I believe it was a shy poster here - years ago, who was friendly with DM, that DM serviced VPW regularly. And that LCM was not in favor of the "screw everything that moves" policy. He was a country church boy who thought that was not right. But VPW told him he could not serve God unless he learned how to sexually service the women in the body of Christ.
So, he got into it. So, probably it was in obedience to VPW the moggie. Isn't that where it all started if you trace it back as if you are tracing a transmittable disease?
IMO"
ex cathedra
"Posted 22 December 2005 - 07:44 PM
i heard from martindale's own mouth that veepee told him he needed to loosen up in that area if he was gonna' be a great for god. something like that.."
DontWorryBeHappy
Posted 17 December 2007 - 09:52 PM
"my "corps assignment" at that time, placed me in the position of having daily, one-on-one as well as group meetings with the bot during those months. i say unfortunately, because, due to that daily, firsthand contact with those men and other "top leadership" at hq at the time, i was forced to deal with the firsthand acconts of many victims of sexual and "spiritual" abuse perpetrated against those victims not only by the then twi bot and other twi "top leadership", but also many who had been sexually and "spiritually" abused by vpw himself......
women, who were only then, after vpw's death, able to begin voicing what they had suffered at his hands.
These victims' firsthand accounts were often horribly gut-wrenching, and the psychoemotional and "spiritual" damage done to them caused multiple and varied responses.
Some were able to obtain closure by sharing what had happened to them with me,.....knowing that i had access to the bot, and that i would confront the individual offenders directly and personally on the behalf of their victims, and report back immediately, their response.
A very few were afforded the "luxury" of a face-to-face meeting with their abusers.......the vast majority were not!
For some, the damage and hurt was so profound, that they required professional psychiatric help and medication in order ro help them cope with the aftermath of what they had experienced.
A few required hospitalization.......and, several, unfortunately, committed suicide!
As i said, the horror of what these victims had experienced at the hands of vpw, lcm, and other "top twi leadership" was one of the most difficult things i ever had to deal with, as i tried desperately to help them.
Thankfully, there were a few corps grads (dr.s. leven, dr. m. carli, and a few others), who were professionally trained and able to help me with what rapidly became an overwhelming number of "cases" of this abuse.
Let me make it perfectly clear, that, NEVER ONCE DID VPW, LCM, OR ANY OF THE OTHERS I PERSONALLY CONFRONTED ABOUT SPECIFIC, INDIVIDUAL CASES THEY WERE EACH PERSONALLY INVOLVED IN, EVER DENY THEIR GUILT!
Some even haughtily admitted to their misdeeds, stating unabashedly that God had absolutely "no problem" with what they had done, other than my "rabid legalism" which would cause us to "lose the ministry'!!
Of course, there were numerous excuses, twisted scriptures and doctines, and vicious personal attacks against the victims (and me), that these lying hypocrites came up with to try and justify or legitimize their actions.......but, NEVER A DENIAL!
One time, in the early summer of 1984, when i was on vpw's motorcoach in the "courtyard", i confronted vpw with a specific "report" from one of his many victims.
after i had presented him with the facts, his only response was
"Son, there are just some things i choose not to discuss with people"!
That was it!
As i sat there in stunned silence, watching him smoke his cigarette, he sicked his guard dog TJ, on me........calling the dog over to sit at my feet, growling through bared teeth!......it was chris geer, who opened the motorcoach door from the outside where he was "standing guard", and called off the dog so i could get out!
Another time, when i was confronting lcm in the "motorcycle shed" about his sexual abuse of 2 different in-residence corps women at that time, his response to me was
"You need to back off, man! Dr. wierwille told me, that if i didn't loosen up in this category of life, I'd never be a great leader or lover of God's people"!!
Again,....NO DENIAL!.......IN FACT, AN ADMISSION!.....
with the excuse that it was a direct order from vp himself that started lcm off on his path of sexual predation and human destruction!"
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Twinky
Reading this thread, it's amazing how widespread some sort of knowledge / rumor was outside TWI - and how little many people knew inside TWI.
Inside, we were told that these rumors were to besmirch the work of TWI and were smears, a devilish plot, to mock the wonderful ministry.
And also we were told that those who had left TWI were devil-spirit infested and untrustworthy. Contact was prohibited (on pain of expulsion oneself).
So in fact, there was very little means by which those in TWI could find out.
Outside, you could shout as much as you liked. The walls of Zion are thick and don't let the sounds in.
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OldSkool
Yep, that was until the internet, Waydale, and Grease Spot. It's common knowledge now. I think their long term damage control / recovery plan has been to quelch the yelling, put on a veneer of "we are oh so nice now," attempt to legitimize themselves in coporate 501c3 related lingo, and put out living god's word as a family. It fools some but not too many.
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JavaJane
It fools the ones who want to be fooled.
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excathedra
maybe now
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JavaJane
Yes, now. Not before the lawsuits... Not before WayDale and GreaseSpot... before that we were like sheep led to the slaughter. We didn't know, and the information was hidden. Now anyone who has access to the internet can find the truth - thanks to people like you, Excathedra!! Thank you for what you have posted here! It helped me to see what twi and VP were really like. Thank you so much! Without you, I would still be in it!
Thank you, Pawtucket, for this site, and everyone who posts here who make the truth known!
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Broken Arrow
Did they come out with such a class?
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Ham
I dunno. They finally managed to overcome their silence regarding beastiality..
one step at at time. One, long slow step at a time..
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Broken Arrow
It fools some but not too many.
Enough to keep that ABS coming in though, eh?
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waysider
Not trying to split hairs but I think it was more the "extramarital" than the "premarital" that got them in such a mess.
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Broken Arrow
True, but I think Oldskool might be trying to point out that TWI is trying to get a cleaner image with regard to the whole issue.
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waylaid
Looking back, I suppose there were quite a few of us that were completely oblivious to the sex stuff. No doubt it occurred. I think they didn't bother with us 'spiritual nerds'. We weren't nerdy looking or acting, just goofy for Jesus. We were like the 'Untouchables'. Even if they asked us point-blank if we wanted to have sex, we probably would have said something like, "Yeah, right, good one." and rolled our eyes and reported for duty to Bless Patrol at 3 am.
To answer the question, no, it wasn't something that was taught to the masses. The only stories we (us nerds) ever heard about stuff like that involved John L. , Dave S. and maybe a couple of others. There were actually some good doobies in the 'Way Corpse' as some of you condescending refer to us as.
Waylaid
I meant 'condescendingly'. Sorry.
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OldSkool
Ya, Living God's Word as a Family. Too little, too late.
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excathedra
i sincerely thank you javajane
--
waylaid welcome. love your handle lol
what corps were you in ? i'm curious
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JavaJane
I don't seem to remember that class really covering extramarital sex at all... But when I took it I was a bit distracted by an accidental injury and ER visit the first day of class... We tried to cancel, but the coordinator convinced us it was better to hear da wurd than have me rest that night. I do remember something about only touching a girl where her soccer uniform didn't cover??
And Excathedra, you are most welcome!
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Bolshevik
They mentioned Joseph in the OT, . . . it was his fault for letting Potifer's wife get too far . . . he'd let his guard down and should of had someone with him etc etc.
Other than that I can't recall anything.
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OldSkool
That's because the adversary had you guys distracted.
:biglaugh: Now get your spiritual goals in order! 
I will post up some more information a little later. I do remember that adultery was a big no-no in that class though as was pre-marital sex.
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waylaid
Hi Ex-
Dirty Dozen.
Waylaid
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johnj
There are 16 articles on www.abouttheway.org with a wealth of description of how TWI leaders recruited women, what was (and was not) in the Way sex class, first person memoirs of people involved in some way in sexual misconduct, Way "theology" of sex, lawsuits over sexual misconduct, and so forth. It's the most detailed and broadest ranging material you can find on the subject. The disease was systemic- it started in the root and spread throughout the whole Way tree. There was much more harm done than anyone will ever know.
Go to www.abouttheway.org , click on the "Lawsuits/ Sexual Misconduct" tab and you will see brief overviews of the 16 articles.
John
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dmiller
Huh???????? Where did that come from???? I remember back in the 70's when Walter (anyone remember Walter?), taught about Joseph's stamina in that very same situation. So now it's Joe's fault? Who the fugg comes up with all this BS anyway?? Twi could teach a chameleon a thing or two, eh?
Edited by dmillerLink to comment
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waysider
"There are 16 articles on www.abouttheway.org with a wealth of descriptions---"
http://www.abouttheway.org/
Thank you for the valuable resource, John.
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WordWolf
There were a LOT of good Christians who wanted to serve God who went into the Way Corps.
There were a significant number of numbskulls who also went into the Way Corps.
victor paul wierwille carefully selected his co-conspirators (who can keep their mouth shut?)
and his victims (who won't run to the police?)
That's one reason he never was charged with a crime when he was alive.
So, some Way Corps never heard a single thing about this. Those of you who didn't, consider
that the only form of real compliment vpw ever gave-
he thought you were incapable of being corrupted.
That having been said, a number of people WERE capable of being corrupted, and WERE corrupted.
They did things like spy out vpw's victims, set up vpw's victims, and "exit-counsel" vpw's
victims so they didn't go to the police.
The mixed emotions a lot of us get from the Way Corps is that vpw meant it as a tool for control-
and successfully used it as such to a greater or lesser degree. Some people to this day
consider the Way Corps to have been nothing but positive and hide from what vpw used it for.
THOSE are the people who give it the WORST name and THOSE are the people who have stirred up the
strongest feelings about it.
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WordWolf
For those who are unclear about this, all the sex stuff started with victor paul wierwille.
Not only did he rape, molest, and drug lots of Christian women after telling them it was
their duty and privilege to "bless" him sexually,
but he taught others-including l craig martindale- to be twofold the child of hell that he
himself was.
vpw was the one who taught lcm all this. lcm was an unimaginative Christian jock in college
when vpw found him and indoctrinated him.
Dot Matrix
"Posted 20 November 2003 - 10:38 AM
I heard from, I believe it was a shy poster here - years ago, who was friendly with DM, that DM serviced VPW regularly. And that LCM was not in favor of the "screw everything that moves" policy. He was a country church boy who thought that was not right. But VPW told him he could not serve God unless he learned how to sexually service the women in the body of Christ.
So, he got into it. So, probably it was in obedience to VPW the moggie. Isn't that where it all started if you trace it back as if you are tracing a transmittable disease?
IMO"
ex cathedra
"Posted 22 December 2005 - 07:44 PM
i heard from martindale's own mouth that veepee told him he needed to loosen up in that area if he was gonna' be a great for god. something like that.."
DontWorryBeHappy
Posted 17 December 2007 - 09:52 PM
"my "corps assignment" at that time, placed me in the position of having daily, one-on-one as well as group meetings with the bot during those months. i say unfortunately, because, due to that daily, firsthand contact with those men and other "top leadership" at hq at the time, i was forced to deal with the firsthand acconts of many victims of sexual and "spiritual" abuse perpetrated against those victims not only by the then twi bot and other twi "top leadership", but also many who had been sexually and "spiritually" abused by vpw himself......
women, who were only then, after vpw's death, able to begin voicing what they had suffered at his hands.
These victims' firsthand accounts were often horribly gut-wrenching, and the psychoemotional and "spiritual" damage done to them caused multiple and varied responses.
Some were able to obtain closure by sharing what had happened to them with me,.....knowing that i had access to the bot, and that i would confront the individual offenders directly and personally on the behalf of their victims, and report back immediately, their response.
A very few were afforded the "luxury" of a face-to-face meeting with their abusers.......the vast majority were not!
For some, the damage and hurt was so profound, that they required professional psychiatric help and medication in order ro help them cope with the aftermath of what they had experienced.
A few required hospitalization.......and, several, unfortunately, committed suicide!
As i said, the horror of what these victims had experienced at the hands of vpw, lcm, and other "top twi leadership" was one of the most difficult things i ever had to deal with, as i tried desperately to help them.
Thankfully, there were a few corps grads (dr.s. leven, dr. m. carli, and a few others), who were professionally trained and able to help me with what rapidly became an overwhelming number of "cases" of this abuse.
Let me make it perfectly clear, that, NEVER ONCE DID VPW, LCM, OR ANY OF THE OTHERS I PERSONALLY CONFRONTED ABOUT SPECIFIC, INDIVIDUAL CASES THEY WERE EACH PERSONALLY INVOLVED IN, EVER DENY THEIR GUILT!
Some even haughtily admitted to their misdeeds, stating unabashedly that God had absolutely "no problem" with what they had done, other than my "rabid legalism" which would cause us to "lose the ministry'!!
Of course, there were numerous excuses, twisted scriptures and doctines, and vicious personal attacks against the victims (and me), that these lying hypocrites came up with to try and justify or legitimize their actions.......but, NEVER A DENIAL!
One time, in the early summer of 1984, when i was on vpw's motorcoach in the "courtyard", i confronted vpw with a specific "report" from one of his many victims.
after i had presented him with the facts, his only response was
"Son, there are just some things i choose not to discuss with people"!
That was it!
As i sat there in stunned silence, watching him smoke his cigarette, he sicked his guard dog TJ, on me........calling the dog over to sit at my feet, growling through bared teeth!......it was chris geer, who opened the motorcoach door from the outside where he was "standing guard", and called off the dog so i could get out!
Another time, when i was confronting lcm in the "motorcycle shed" about his sexual abuse of 2 different in-residence corps women at that time, his response to me was
"You need to back off, man! Dr. wierwille told me, that if i didn't loosen up in this category of life, I'd never be a great leader or lover of God's people"!!
Again,....NO DENIAL!.......IN FACT, AN ADMISSION!.....
with the excuse that it was a direct order from vp himself that started lcm off on his path of sexual predation and human destruction!"
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skyrider
I tend to think that most of those corps moved over to that 'other' site......for corps only.
Must do their hearts good to reminisce those campfire sharings and holding hands.
No thanks.
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chockfull
Yeah. I'll pass on that one also.
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