All the trustees always had a nominee in case they themselves were incapacitated, died suddenly, etc (of course...where would the revelation be that one was going to die in a car/plane crash...but I digress).
I remember LCM announcing this one day - early 90s - he announced his successor with a big run-up - you'll be surprised, etc etc, Yes, It's Rev Rivenbark! Yes, it's a woman [gulp] - and he went on in some way about women having a ministry. I don't remember the words he used, only the tone of voice and the way he presented it.
This is that same LCM that constantly denigrated women (especially smart women) who showed any ability, thinking skills, leadership qualities - anything other than complete submission to the nearest male jerk. And particularly married women, who barely existed in their own right under his tenure - everything had to be addressed to the head of household, the husband.
She knew what she'd got on him. And her strategy (one has to agree) was successful, got herself enough dirt to get him kicked out and herself installed. She knew what women he'd coerced - and then she hung him out to dry. After, no doubt, a few fiery confrontations she gave him.
This is that same LCM that constantly denigrated women (especially smart women) who showed any ability, thinking skills, leadership qualities - anything other than complete submission to the nearest male jerk. And particularly married women, who barely existed in their own right under his tenure - everything had to be addressed to the head of household, the husband.
Ah, she was smarter than him, been around such a long time, gave him enough rope and he hanged himself.
Maybe fear of Rosie was why he stamped on incoming women (in-rez then in graduated Corps) so much, so they'd never get near the string never mind the rope. He did listen to Rosie when she made "suggestions" or sought to dissuade him from some things he wanted to do.
Understanding, that isn't saying much. Rosalie is manipulative. Smart? Not really.
Maybe fear of Rosie was why he stamped on incoming women (in-rez then in graduated Corps) so much, so they'd never get near the string never mind the rope. He did listen to Rosie when she made "suggestions" or sought to dissuade him from some things he wanted to do.
It has been speculated (probably rightfully so) that the homo purges were related to Donna and Rosie's close relationship. Rosie and Donna did use Craig's affairs against him. They pushed a lot of policy through his reign, policy that still stands today.
I do love the poetic justice of Craig being so down on women and then being ousted by Rosie and his wife.
Understanding, that isn't saying much. Rosalie is manipulative. Smart? Not really.
A paranoid closet lesbian as a president of a fundamentalist Bible cult? No, smart isn't the first thing that comes to mind. Incurably conflicted? Possibly.
It has been speculated (probably rightfully so) that the homo purges were related to Donna and Rosie's close relationship. Rosie and Donna did use Craig's affairs against him. They pushed a lot of policy through his reign, policy that still stands today.
I do love the poetic justice of Craig being so down on women and then being ousted by Rosie and his wife.
It reads like a Greek tragedy. Thankfully I've moved past the tragedy portion of my life affected by this.
All the trustees always had a nominee in case they themselves were incapacitated, died suddenly, etc (of course...where would the revelation be that one was going to die in a car/plane crash...but I digress).
I remember LCM announcing this one day - early 90s - he announced his successor with a big run-up - you'll be surprised, etc etc, Yes, It's Rev Rivenbark! Yes, it's a woman [gulp] - and he went on in some way about women having a ministry. I don't remember the words he used, only the tone of voice and the way he presented it.
This is that same LCM that constantly denigrated women (especially smart women) who showed any ability, thinking skills, leadership qualities - anything other than complete submission to the nearest male jerk. And particularly married women, who barely existed in their own right under his tenure - everything had to be addressed to the head of household, the husband.
She knew what she'd got on him. And her strategy (one has to agree) was successful, got herself enough dirt to get him kicked out and herself installed. She knew what women he'd coerced - and then she hung him out to dry. After, no doubt, a few fiery confrontations she gave him.
In 1995 on, ahem, Mother's day, he did a teaching called 'a mother's believing authority'. In it, he said that women had a sphere of influence and authority, ESPECIALLY in dealing with children. He even said to men not to mess with this 'authority'. He used Sarah and Rebecka as examples. How God told Abraham to do what Sarah requested re: Hagar and Ishmael and how God told Rebecka, not Issac, there were twins in her womb and the elder would serve the younger.
One reason this teaching stood out in my mind is that I had been forced out of twi the previous year, yet I listened to the SNS tapes via a friend. Every other time LCM taught it seemed like he used the exact same formula: 20 minutes of actual teaching and 40 minutes of him screaming about whoever p'd him off that week. This mother's day teaching was like a breath of fresh air by co0mparison. "Yeah, Craig. Might want to ease up a bit"
In 1995 on, ahem, Mother's day, he did a teaching called 'a mother's believing authority'. In it, he said that women had a sphere of influence and authority, ESPECIALLY in dealing with children. He even said to men not to mess with this 'authority'. He used Sarah and Rebecka as examples. How God told Abraham to do what Sarah requested re: Hagar and Ishmael and how God told Rebecka, not Issac, there were twins in her womb and the elder would serve the younger.
One reason this teaching stood out in my mind is that I had been forced out of twi the previous year, yet I listened to the SNS tapes via a friend. Every other time LCM taught it seemed like he used the exact same formula: 20 minutes of actual teaching and 40 minutes of him screaming about whoever p'd him off that week. This mother's day teaching was like a breath of fresh air by co0mparison. "Yeah, Craig. Might want to ease up a bit"
John --- ".....I had been forced out of twi"
Was there any fiery confrontation to go with this?
I do love the poetic justice of Craig being so down on women and then being ousted by Rosie and his wife.
I rather suspect it was the other way round ... his wife was being bonked by Rosie (as he had bonked so many other men's wives) (now that's justice of a sort, though poetic probably not), and he was being ousted by Rosie and his wife - and that's why he was "so down on women."
Johniam, yes, there was stuff about a mother's sphere of influence...but again, one of those things that lip service was paid to but the actuality was different. Husbands were given authority to overrule wives in any situation - and of course everyone was subject to someone higher up the Way tree - so in fact, there was interference from on high and external to the family about how children were being raised.
There are posters here who can attest to that and to advice, etc about the raising of their children that really wasn't in the children's best interests ...it's caused some posters to do a runner from TWI.
i'm sorry i don't know what to add but i feel like talking
i believe at the beginning craig had to be nurtured into the man of god having rights to all the women. i don't think that was his upbringing or initially his makeup
donna, i'm not sure about
rosalie, i'm almost feel sure about
i'm kind of sad craig and donna got hooked up
if there ever was major deceipt going on along these lines (including vp and lcm), my bet would be on rivenbark, but i also believe donna easily came on board
just my 2 pennies
*******
it has be difficult to find you are married to a homosexual (be it man or woman)
veepster didn't have to face that as far as i know. he had the kind of wife from the old school. shut up and get in line
she liked the perks, but dotmatrix said she cried her heart out about the motorcoach pimpmobile - just using that word - i certainly don't think of myself and many others as prostitutes
Husbands were given authority to overrule wives in any situation - and of course everyone was subject to someone higher up the Way tree - so in fact, there was interference from on high and external to the family about how children were being raised.
There are posters here who can attest to that and to advice, etc about the raising of their children that really wasn't in the children's best interests ...it's caused some posters to do a runner from TWI.
Twinky......yes, wives were in a situation that husband authority could always overrule. You are correct.
BUT.....I would like to add, that as corps during those explosive years of 1990-1997, we sat thru mandatory corps
phone hookups from September to June. Many of those corps meetings would last for nearly THREE HOURS.....and it
was like, as if, the mog's authority ALWAYS trumped my authority in my household. It a slightly different twist,
"Married to the Cult" would have some of the same parallels as "Married to the Mob."
Was there any fiery confrontation to go with this?
Care to expound on this "forced out?"
I wouldn't exactly call it 'fiery', but it wasn't pleasant. The year was 1994. My wife and I had each been in twi for 18 years, 6 of which as spouses. At word in bus. that year LCM said any corps had 6 mo. to get out of debt or no more corps status. Then at roa the homo purge. Then AFTER roa the unproductive evil purge. THAT was what forced us out. If you don't jive with that term pick your own, but they actually had everybody in every twig go to "meetings" with the new sheriff in town Pat Pugh, who is now the limb leader of CT.
He with the twig leader basically listed all our sins and told us to clean up or get out. We were bewildered. This was not the twi we had embraced all these years; WTF is going on? We limped along and had a second such meeting. Then the twig leader called me and informed me that I was welcome and my 5 year old daughter, but my 3 year old autistic son and my wife were not welcome. I sent copies of the same letter to LCM, Michael Fort (trunk cordo), and Allen Licht (limb/reghion cordo)
telling them either we were all in or all out. Michael Fort sent a letter back saying "out".
If I would have tried to cooperate with the regime, I'd be divorced now. And probably broke. Yes, I call that 'forced out'.
quote:
Johniam, yes, there was stuff about a mother's sphere of influence...but again, one of those things that lip service was paid to but the actuality was different. Husbands were given authority to overrule wives in any situation - and of course everyone was subject to someone higher up the Way tree - so in fact, there was interference from on high and external to the family about how children were being raised.
I wasn't trying to defend him; just clarifying what he said publicly. I'm sure there WAS a different application when the cameras and microphones weren't on.
I wouldn't exactly call it 'fiery', but it wasn't pleasant. The year was 1994. My wife and I had each been in twi for 18 years, 6 of which as spouses. At word in bus. that year LCM said any corps had 6 mo. to get out of debt or no more corps status. Then at roa the homo purge. Then AFTER roa the unproductive evil purge. THAT was what forced us out. If you don't jive with that term pick your own, but they actually had everybody in every twig go to "meetings" with the new sheriff in town Pat Pugh, who is now the limb leader of CT.
He with the twig leader basically listed all our sins and told us to clean up or get out. We were bewildered. This was not the twi we had embraced all these years; WTF is going on? We limped along and had a second such meeting. Then the twig leader called me and informed me that I was welcome and my 5 year old daughter, but my 3 year old autistic son and my wife were not welcome. I sent copies of the same letter to LCM, Michael Fort (trunk cordo), and Allen Licht (limb/reghion cordo)
telling them either we were all in or all out. Michael Fort sent a letter back saying "out".
If I would have tried to cooperate with the regime, I'd be divorced now. And probably broke. Yes, I call that 'forced out'.
And we wonder why TWI has all chiefs and no Indians now. It's not rocket science. What a bunch of cr@p johniam. The only good part about it is that they will be held accountable when Jesus Christ comes back, and that you're better off without them. These guys abusing their spiritual authority and targeting little kids with disabilities just makes my blood boil.
These guys abusing their spiritual authority and targeting little kids with disabilities just makes my blood boil.
When my son was born with serious medical issues I was targeted for quiet demotion. My wife and I were also basically blamed for it being an ongoing condition. I was told the demotion was so we could have room to "work on things." Nothing has changed with them. If anything they just try to be slick about abusing those with health problems. They even went so far as to meet with my wife and I at an unplanned meeting. The entire time they tried all they could to pit me and my wife at odds with each other. Real godly, no?
johniam - really sorry for what you had to deal with. Craig was a lot harsher than Rosalie, though the end result with Rosalie is the same.
Zeroing in on health conditions is absolutely sick. You get more sympathy from the devil than you do from TWI on such matters.
He with the twig leader basically listed all our sins and told us to clean up or get out. We were bewildered. This was not the twi we had embraced all these years; WTF is going on? We limped along and had a second such meeting. Then the twig leader called me and informed me that I was welcome and my 5 year old daughter, but my 3 year old autistic son and my wife were not welcome. I sent copies of the same letter to LCM, Michael Fort (trunk cordo), and Allen Licht (limb/reghion cordo) telling them either we were all in or all out. Michael Fort sent a letter back saying "out".
rot in hell or at least on earth you no-good bastads who did this to johni and his wife and kids
He with the twig leader basically listed all our sins and told us to clean up or get out. We were bewildered. This was not the twi we had embraced all these years; WTF is going on? We limped along and had a second such meeting. Then the twig leader called me and informed me that I was welcome and my 5 year old daughter, but my 3 year old autistic son and my wife were not welcome. I sent copies of the same letter to LCM, Michael Fort (trunk cordo), and Allen Licht (limb/reghion cordo) telling them either we were all in or all out. Michael Fort sent a letter back saying "out".
John........hard-hearted sickos who do others' bidding.
What you saw UP CLOSE AND PERSONAL was Matthew 23.......hypocrites, blind guides, serpents, generation of vipers -- who say and do not.
When Jesus exposed their evil for all to see, the scribes and pharisees became even more vehement to kill him.
And, fastforward about two thousand years and wierwille "MADE THEM TWOFOLD MORE THE CHILD OF HELL THAN HIMSELF" (v.15)
These burdens are grievous and it is my prayer that you continue to unravel and distance yourself and your family from this evil.
Interesting list. If old Rosie were to die suddenly, I wonder if her successor is already chosen?
After just finishing watching the BBC series I, Claudius, and having a passing interest in history, I would guess that Rosie has not and will not choose a successor.
If you pick a successor, you've signed your own death warrant. If you keep your possible successors uncertain, they are too busy killing each other to try to kill you...
Rosie knows how she beat LCM, and I don't think she'd let anybody get in a position to do the same thing to her.
After just finishing watching the BBC series I, Claudius, and having a passing interest in history, I would guess that Rosie has not and will not choose a successor.
If you pick a successor, you've signed your own death warrant. If you keep your possible successors uncertain, they are too busy killing each other to try to kill you...
Rosie knows how she beat LCM, and I don't think she'd let anybody get in a position to do the same thing to her.
Just sayin...
Love,
Steve
:biglaugh: :biglaugh: :biglaugh:
Ahhhh..., the beginnings of wisdom
Blessed art thou, Steven Lortz: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but our Father which is in heaven.
Three fiery confrontations changed my perception of wierwille.....listed below:
Jim.......so true.
In 1980, in the BRC.....a group of six were seated up front to share about their experiences and learning at "The Tracker" seminar where Tom Brown Jr. taught skills of tracking and survival. Remember, from 1976-1981, twi and, specifically, the corps program was heavily engaged in a sub-theme of "mobile abundant living" [MAL-packs] in a subversion of an American overthrow. Thus, some corps and others went to learn from the man who was "the master of tracking" - Tom Brown Jr.
During this BRC gathering, wierwille was seated near the front on the side. All six members had come prepared to share their learning experience to those of us, 90-120 people, in an evening gathering. Going down the line, each shared about ten minutes and how learning is exciting and all. BUT.....this nice, pleasant evening was just about to take a jaded turn as the fourth person shared his experience. He was 8th corps and had a deep enthusiasm for all-things nature, had built a small cabin years before, and an ego to match. Not sure if he spoke longer than his slotted time frame, but superlatives were attached to Tom Brown's skills and teaching. Tom Brown was the master, the man in the spotlight, the man to teach anyone about life and living!!
Well.....wiewille couldn't stand it any longer. With fire in his eyes, he jumped up and unloaded with vehement, frothing-at-the-mouth anger! This 8th corps guy was "POSSESSED," he thundered with a vengence. For a moment, I actually thought wierwille was going to throw a punch and deck the guy. He was that furious. He railed and railed. I found myself in a whirlwind of thoughts, "What the he!! is going on here? Is this guy really possessed? Are we going to see devil spirits cast out? Oh, my!" Wierwille thundered onward....there seemed to be no end.
Finally, the fury stopped as wierwille headed for the backroom of the BRC. The silence in the room was deafening as Johnnie T. came forward to tag-team the meltdown. Another ten minutes of justifying wierwille's fury and Johnnie dismissed us. As I walked back to my unit, I wondered why wierwille didn't cast out any spirits.....IF this guy was indeed possessed. My respect for wierwille had, once again, diminished in my eyes.
Amazingly, the head-to-head confrontation did NOT crush this 8th corps guy nor his testimony....in my opinion. And perhaps, that is why the confrontation lasted so long. WIERWILLE COULD NOT STAND ANOTHER MAN, TOM BROWN, LAUDED AS A GREAT MAN AND TEACHER.
Another Wierwille Confrontation...
While at headquarters my final year of inresidence corps......a nightowl was scheduled in the Way Woods. The night was pleasant and, as we walked past the George Jess memorial, a crackling fire welcomed us with curling flames and warmth. For me, I was thankful to be outdoors and soak in the sounds and smells of nature.
As always, the corps coordinator handles the initial stages of corps gatherings before wierwille steps in. This seems to be standard twi protocol, much like a warm-up band takes the stage before the marquee band takes the music and crowd to a whole new level. Anyways, that the way its always done....and probably, will stay. When wierwille enters, he takes his chair and is flanked by the corps coordinator. Another couple of logs are placed on the fire to set the atmosphere, and the crickets chirp in the woods.
About an hour into the nightowl, as the serenity of the evening was peaking....none of us could foresee what was about to erupt! In the shadows behind wierwille was his aide, his bodyguard whose two-way radio blurted and screeched in the quiet night air. The "atmosphere" of the whole evening came to an abrupt halt; a meticulously planned nightowl was broken in an instant. Wierwille could NOT contain his anger. He unleashed this tempest and castigated him relentlessly for about five minutes.
This bodyguard was the same man wierwille had praised months before by saying, "He stands by my side, because he doesn't take sh!t from no one." So, the irony of this night loomed large as wierwille couldn't help but verbally attack his right-hand man. Why couldn't vpw just cover for the mistake? Or, better yet.....call attention to it as a big ooops! and move on? What made it so awkward was that wierwille was "caught in the headlights" and couldn't adjust to the moment. So, his anger came front and center!! To me, this fury revealed wierwille's character....something he worked a lifetime to hide.
The bodyguard? From what I heard from hq-staffers the next day, he packed up and left.
Never saw him again.
The 3rd Wierwille Major Confrontation.....previously mentioned.
Sitting in the OSC Dining Room during Corps Night [those transition years moving from the BRC and waiting for the Auditorium to be built]........where wierwille was going thru his "literal translations according to usage" in the Book of Romans. While most corps took notes furiously, there were others in the back who didn't take these meetings quite so serious or spiritual.
Anyways..........about an hour into the corps meeting, and this 6th corps guy is starting to nod off. Problem was..... he was near the front, somewhere near the fourth or fifth row, and in eye-shot of wierwille. Well, the nodding increased and the closed-eyelids-duration was becoming visibly evident. And, even though a couple of nearby corps tried to help this fellow stay awake.........it just wasn't meant to be.
And, then it happened......wierwille's eyes fixed on a NODDING, DOZING CORPS GRAD who had the audacity, and no spirituality, to sleep while wierwille taught from Romans!!! This "act of disrespect" demanded the most intense verbal lashing that wierwille could muster......and thus it was. Red-faced with anger, and neck-veins visible...... wierwille launched into this tirade to strip bare every thread of self-worth that this corps grad had. On and on the verbal lashing went........not 20 stripes, not 25 stripes, not 30 stripes, not 35 stripes........BUT 39 VICIOUS, VERBAL STRIPES.......just one short of total and utter demoralization.
Wierwille's anger could not be contained.....he went back stage and Craig came out as if *to tag-team* the effort some more. It was horrendous and awful and disgraceful. Man, in hindsight.....I wish that I'd stood up and yelled at the top of my lungs........SHUT THE HECK UP AND LET HIM BE.
The corps guy was escorted from the room......and wierwille came back, after about 10 minutes, to finish his teaching. But we'd already SEEN his teaching and lifestyle......who needed to take more notes???
The next morning......word spread that the 6th Corps staff guy was fired and sent packing.
Need to add.......this corps guy, after seeking medical help awhile later, found out that he had a blood-sugar problem and he was treated for it. Prescription medicine helped him to not doze off. Guess wierwille nor martindale saw deep enough to HELP this guy
For those of you who only experienced the pfal-persona, stage-crafted, mogness-mystique of wierwille......this post is for you.
Ironic, isn't it? Time and time again, wierwille called his 'disciples' POSSESSED.....and then, does nothing about it except yell till his fury subsided and then stomp out. It doesn't pass the smell test.
always wondered what would have happened if someone had physically beaten up Wierwille, Martindale, Townsend, Geer, and others and had sent them to the hospital and the rest of the corps and staff had joined in the pumpeling? and the mob mentality had declared the above Satanicly possesed?
When my son was born with serious medical issues I was targeted for quiet demotion. My wife and I were also basically blamed for it being an ongoing condition. I was told the demotion was so we could have room to "work on things." Nothing has changed with them. If anything they just try to be slick about abusing those with health problems. They even went so far as to meet with my wife and I at an unplanned meeting. The entire time they tried all they could to pit me and my wife at odds with each other. Real godly, no?
I can think of nothing better to illustrate the problem with TWI than OldSkool's experience here. This is a Christian organization, supposedly. It is supposedly based in the New Testament Grace Administration. Grace is supposed to rule the present truth. And you will see all sorts of pious platitudes coming out of these people's mouths. Just look at TWI's website, for instance. Nice packaged short positive teachings. Grace, etc.
But when you peel back the onion, the problem is this is the way TWI functions, like OldSkool's experience. Completely opposite of what you would expect from Christians. Using people. Trading them like slaves. Blaming people for sickness in this world. A person supposed to be a clergyman or woman standing against marriages, trying to sow dischord, stir things up, start arguments so they can blame them. How clueless. Abusing the weak, the poor, the downtrodden. They are enemies of Jesus Christ.
If you want to "take me on"........then, wierwille will shred you to pieces. Textbook character assassination is awaiting all those who dissent or assemble an insurrection. The trustees will NOT allow it. The security patrol have eyes and ears everywhere. Even if you conspire off-grounds, when you're on twi property they are WATCHING you. They know the beginning signs of dissent are manifested in thoughts, words and then, actions!!
There are reasons why nearly 475 clergy are NO LONGER WITH TWI.
Cowering thru life is --- NO WAY TO LIVE.
What a wonderful organization -- preying on and using the weak. Sure hoping there's a hell for these guys.
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dabobbada
Foolish mortals, have ye no fear THE living god???!! Look at the early old testament books of Waydale and I and II Greasespot and tremble!! Once unleased, THE noun rose up into godhood and took poss
OldSkool
Jesus cast out spirits and kept the people, the way international has cast out the people and kept the spirits. (I dunno, sounded pithy enough to post )
skyrider
Jim.....thanks for verifying this incident. Wierwille-defenders like to turn the tables on whoever brings solid testimony of wierwille's wrath and character. Just like wierwille's wrecked twig-hop
outandabout
I was wondering the same thing. Rosalie's not exactly a spring chicken.
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JavaJane
Donna. As payment for services rendered.
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Twinky
All the trustees always had a nominee in case they themselves were incapacitated, died suddenly, etc (of course...where would the revelation be that one was going to die in a car/plane crash...but I digress).
I remember LCM announcing this one day - early 90s - he announced his successor with a big run-up - you'll be surprised, etc etc, Yes, It's Rev Rivenbark! Yes, it's a woman [gulp] - and he went on in some way about women having a ministry. I don't remember the words he used, only the tone of voice and the way he presented it.
This is that same LCM that constantly denigrated women (especially smart women) who showed any ability, thinking skills, leadership qualities - anything other than complete submission to the nearest male jerk. And particularly married women, who barely existed in their own right under his tenure - everything had to be addressed to the head of household, the husband.
She knew what she'd got on him. And her strategy (one has to agree) was successful, got herself enough dirt to get him kicked out and herself installed. She knew what women he'd coerced - and then she hung him out to dry. After, no doubt, a few fiery confrontations she gave him.
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OldSkool
Guess this excludes Rosie.
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Twinky
Ah, she was smarter than him, been around such a long time, gave him enough rope and he hanged himself.
Maybe fear of Rosie was why he stamped on incoming women (in-rez then in graduated Corps) so much, so they'd never get near the string never mind the rope. He did listen to Rosie when she made "suggestions" or sought to dissuade him from some things he wanted to do.
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OldSkool
Understanding, that isn't saying much. Rosalie is manipulative. Smart? Not really.
It has been speculated (probably rightfully so) that the homo purges were related to Donna and Rosie's close relationship. Rosie and Donna did use Craig's affairs against him. They pushed a lot of policy through his reign, policy that still stands today.
I do love the poetic justice of Craig being so down on women and then being ousted by Rosie and his wife.
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chockfull
A paranoid closet lesbian as a president of a fundamentalist Bible cult? No, smart isn't the first thing that comes to mind. Incurably conflicted? Possibly.
It reads like a Greek tragedy. Thankfully I've moved past the tragedy portion of my life affected by this.
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johniam
In 1995 on, ahem, Mother's day, he did a teaching called 'a mother's believing authority'. In it, he said that women had a sphere of influence and authority, ESPECIALLY in dealing with children. He even said to men not to mess with this 'authority'. He used Sarah and Rebecka as examples. How God told Abraham to do what Sarah requested re: Hagar and Ishmael and how God told Rebecka, not Issac, there were twins in her womb and the elder would serve the younger.
One reason this teaching stood out in my mind is that I had been forced out of twi the previous year, yet I listened to the SNS tapes via a friend. Every other time LCM taught it seemed like he used the exact same formula: 20 minutes of actual teaching and 40 minutes of him screaming about whoever p'd him off that week. This mother's day teaching was like a breath of fresh air by co0mparison. "Yeah, Craig. Might want to ease up a bit"
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skyrider
John --- ".....I had been forced out of twi"
Was there any fiery confrontation to go with this?
Care to expound on this "forced out?"
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Twinky
I rather suspect it was the other way round ... his wife was being bonked by Rosie (as he had bonked so many other men's wives) (now that's justice of a sort, though poetic probably not), and he was being ousted by Rosie and his wife - and that's why he was "so down on women."
Johniam, yes, there was stuff about a mother's sphere of influence...but again, one of those things that lip service was paid to but the actuality was different. Husbands were given authority to overrule wives in any situation - and of course everyone was subject to someone higher up the Way tree - so in fact, there was interference from on high and external to the family about how children were being raised.
There are posters here who can attest to that and to advice, etc about the raising of their children that really wasn't in the children's best interests ...it's caused some posters to do a runner from TWI.
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excathedra
i'm sorry i don't know what to add but i feel like talking
i believe at the beginning craig had to be nurtured into the man of god having rights to all the women. i don't think that was his upbringing or initially his makeup
donna, i'm not sure about
rosalie, i'm almost feel sure about
i'm kind of sad craig and donna got hooked up
if there ever was major deceipt going on along these lines (including vp and lcm), my bet would be on rivenbark, but i also believe donna easily came on board
just my 2 pennies
*******
it has be difficult to find you are married to a homosexual (be it man or woman)
veepster didn't have to face that as far as i know. he had the kind of wife from the old school. shut up and get in line
she liked the perks, but dotmatrix said she cried her heart out about the motorcoach pimpmobile - just using that word - i certainly don't think of myself and many others as prostitutes
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skyrider
Twinky......yes, wives were in a situation that husband authority could always overrule. You are correct.
BUT.....I would like to add, that as corps during those explosive years of 1990-1997, we sat thru mandatory corps
phone hookups from September to June. Many of those corps meetings would last for nearly THREE HOURS.....and it
was like, as if, the mog's authority ALWAYS trumped my authority in my household. It a slightly different twist,
"Married to the Cult" would have some of the same parallels as "Married to the Mob."
<_<
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excathedra
furk, at least with the mob we might be rich by now
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johniam
I wouldn't exactly call it 'fiery', but it wasn't pleasant. The year was 1994. My wife and I had each been in twi for 18 years, 6 of which as spouses. At word in bus. that year LCM said any corps had 6 mo. to get out of debt or no more corps status. Then at roa the homo purge. Then AFTER roa the unproductive evil purge. THAT was what forced us out. If you don't jive with that term pick your own, but they actually had everybody in every twig go to "meetings" with the new sheriff in town Pat Pugh, who is now the limb leader of CT.
He with the twig leader basically listed all our sins and told us to clean up or get out. We were bewildered. This was not the twi we had embraced all these years; WTF is going on? We limped along and had a second such meeting. Then the twig leader called me and informed me that I was welcome and my 5 year old daughter, but my 3 year old autistic son and my wife were not welcome. I sent copies of the same letter to LCM, Michael Fort (trunk cordo), and Allen Licht (limb/reghion cordo)
telling them either we were all in or all out. Michael Fort sent a letter back saying "out".
If I would have tried to cooperate with the regime, I'd be divorced now. And probably broke. Yes, I call that 'forced out'.
quote:
Johniam, yes, there was stuff about a mother's sphere of influence...but again, one of those things that lip service was paid to but the actuality was different. Husbands were given authority to overrule wives in any situation - and of course everyone was subject to someone higher up the Way tree - so in fact, there was interference from on high and external to the family about how children were being raised.
I wasn't trying to defend him; just clarifying what he said publicly. I'm sure there WAS a different application when the cameras and microphones weren't on.
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chockfull
And we wonder why TWI has all chiefs and no Indians now. It's not rocket science. What a bunch of cr@p johniam. The only good part about it is that they will be held accountable when Jesus Christ comes back, and that you're better off without them. These guys abusing their spiritual authority and targeting little kids with disabilities just makes my blood boil.
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OldSkool
When my son was born with serious medical issues I was targeted for quiet demotion. My wife and I were also basically blamed for it being an ongoing condition. I was told the demotion was so we could have room to "work on things." Nothing has changed with them. If anything they just try to be slick about abusing those with health problems. They even went so far as to meet with my wife and I at an unplanned meeting. The entire time they tried all they could to pit me and my wife at odds with each other. Real godly, no?
johniam - really sorry for what you had to deal with. Craig was a lot harsher than Rosalie, though the end result with Rosalie is the same.
Zeroing in on health conditions is absolutely sick. You get more sympathy from the devil than you do from TWI on such matters.
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excathedra
rot in hell or at least on earth you no-good bastads who did this to johni and his wife and kids
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skyrider
John........hard-hearted sickos who do others' bidding.
What you saw UP CLOSE AND PERSONAL was Matthew 23.......hypocrites, blind guides, serpents, generation of vipers -- who say and do not.
When Jesus exposed their evil for all to see, the scribes and pharisees became even more vehement to kill him.
And, fastforward about two thousand years and wierwille "MADE THEM TWOFOLD MORE THE CHILD OF HELL THAN HIMSELF" (v.15)
These burdens are grievous and it is my prayer that you continue to unravel and distance yourself and your family from this evil.
.
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Steve Lortz
After just finishing watching the BBC series I, Claudius, and having a passing interest in history, I would guess that Rosie has not and will not choose a successor.
If you pick a successor, you've signed your own death warrant. If you keep your possible successors uncertain, they are too busy killing each other to try to kill you...
Rosie knows how she beat LCM, and I don't think she'd let anybody get in a position to do the same thing to her.
Just sayin...
Love,
Steve
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dabobbada
Ahhhh..., the beginnings of wisdom
Blessed art thou, Steven Lortz: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but our Father which is in heaven.
;) ^_^
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skyrider
Three fiery confrontations changed my perception of wierwille.....listed below:
For those of you who only experienced the pfal-persona, stage-crafted, mogness-mystique of wierwille......this post is for you.
Ironic, isn't it? Time and time again, wierwille called his 'disciples' POSSESSED.....and then, does nothing about it except yell till his fury subsided and then stomp out. It doesn't pass the smell test.
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Thomas Loy Bumgarner
always wondered what would have happened if someone had physically beaten up Wierwille, Martindale, Townsend, Geer, and others and had sent them to the hospital and the rest of the corps and staff had joined in the pumpeling? and the mob mentality had declared the above Satanicly possesed?
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chockfull
I can think of nothing better to illustrate the problem with TWI than OldSkool's experience here. This is a Christian organization, supposedly. It is supposedly based in the New Testament Grace Administration. Grace is supposed to rule the present truth. And you will see all sorts of pious platitudes coming out of these people's mouths. Just look at TWI's website, for instance. Nice packaged short positive teachings. Grace, etc.
But when you peel back the onion, the problem is this is the way TWI functions, like OldSkool's experience. Completely opposite of what you would expect from Christians. Using people. Trading them like slaves. Blaming people for sickness in this world. A person supposed to be a clergyman or woman standing against marriages, trying to sow dischord, stir things up, start arguments so they can blame them. How clueless. Abusing the weak, the poor, the downtrodden. They are enemies of Jesus Christ.
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citygirl99
If you want to "take me on"........then, wierwille will shred you to pieces. Textbook character assassination is awaiting all those who dissent or assemble an insurrection. The trustees will NOT allow it. The security patrol have eyes and ears everywhere. Even if you conspire off-grounds, when you're on twi property they are WATCHING you. They know the beginning signs of dissent are manifested in thoughts, words and then, actions!!
There are reasons why nearly 475 clergy are NO LONGER WITH TWI.
Cowering thru life is --- NO WAY TO LIVE.
What a wonderful organization -- preying on and using the weak. Sure hoping there's a hell for these guys.
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