Leaderboard

After reading so many historical timelines of the way international here on GSC, and being an eyewitness to many of the changes implemented during/after the Allen lawsuit, it all comes down to one perpetual whitewash. The way international is a whited sepulcher. It all makes perfect sense to me now, especially when I consider the past that the way international does not want revealed in any capacity - unless of course its the approved version they teach the in-res corps through Ms Wierwille's incomplete biography of vpw, etc. But let's not forget the approved versions of the many nostalgic character traits vpw supposedly demonstrated as the man of god for our day and time. I was 32nd way corps, graduated in 2003. From 1996 - 2003 I spent my time immersed in all things the way international. Lived with my fellowship coordinators, moved with them, as they became candidate corps, went way disciple as they did - only in a different state. Was an assistant fellowship coordinator the remaining six months after my first way disciple year. Started my candidate year as a fellowship coordinator then went way disciple my apprentice year and was assigned to HQ. Spent two years in residence only to be assigned as assistant department coordinator at hq upon graduation from the corps. Became department coordinator within two years. Within a year as department coordinator was asked to be on the presidunce cabinet. Two years later I made my exit in 2008. Starting in 96 I was blown away by martindale's teachings, classes, etc. In my youthful zeal I choose blinders that suited my comfort level. Martindale was the man of God in my mind. I was told by my fellowship coordinators (who had been dropped from the way corps and been around damn near 30 years and were going corps a second time) of some of the history, fog years, the importance of the present truth, why the past was so bad - the adversary uses it, the importance of staying lock step with hq/Martindale, etc. During that time I witnessed the debt policy implemented, the no gift policy, learned of the no pregnancy BS, kept a tight schedule that my fellowship coordinator approved and oversaw. I was the perfect cult leader in training. I was so gung ho that when craig had us dial in on the phone hookup and admitted to a one time consensual affair with Mrs. All3n that I knew it must be the devil trying to take out my MOGFODAT. But during this time of supposed one time consensual affairs.......my exposure to dissension within the ranks from my branch/limb coordinators at the time began in full. But I was still lock step sold out to twi and craiggers.....aaaaaaannnnnd then I was assigned to hq for my second tenure as way disciple and my apprentice year. During this time I began adjusting my blinders to allow more light to shine. - 1999 - A couple months after I arrived at hq craig was asked to leave. My cabinet guy informed us that a major impediment had been removed. - Shortly after craig's departure dissenting top leadership (S@iler, Pannasmello, et al.) were rounded up, told to move into founders hall for monitoring and then either quit or were fired if they didn't get in line with Rosie the riveter. - Afterwards, hq staff were informed via their pres. cabinet that the board of dummies had invited two cult experts to hq and instructed hq staff to answer any questions honestly while going about our wayfer lives as normal. - During this same time frame so many changes were ushered into staff's and way corps' routines. Examples follow (but are not limited to): the pregnancy policy abolished, staff moved from need basis pay scale to salary based on an hourly basis (aka start of 46 hour hour cap with ot approved by presidents cabinet up to 52 hours and more hours than 52 approved by BOD,) Coerced volunteer time was now separate by cabinet area and coerced with department coordinators signing up those that didn't volunteer), staff personal schedules were no longer required to be turned in for approval, two by two travel was no longer mandated but encouraged, bod were forced to implement a harassment policy into the staff hand book as a system of redress for hq as well as staffers, STS attendance was now supposedly voluntary but checklists were still gathered by department every Monday morning, the noon meal was no longer mandatory, etc. - All of this gave the impression that rosalie was our great deliverer. Us plebe staffers had no idea that behind rosalie were lawyers hired by TWI to diffuse lawsuit ammo and whitewash the cult yet again from craigs lunacy. Whitewashed it so far and thorough that teaching responsibilities were decentralized from the president of TWI to many chosen folks. That way there was no charismatic leader to point the finger at. Wax on, wax off. - It was during this time that I was transferred out of my department and onto a large project to repair the main electrical loop that had fried from neglect. I found myself a fly on the wall to so many long time staffers and way corps that kept telling the same stories about craig and vpw. Abuse, adultery, large scale involvement of way corps to procure and hide that vpw and craig were serial sexual predators who preyed on any woman they found vulnerable. Personal misuse of ABS by board of trustees/directors over the years. Heck, this was such a big deal that even rosalie had to pay TWI to have grounds cut her grass at foxhaven lest she be found guilty of private inurement which would risk TWI losing its 501c3 status. The list could continue. Needless to say that my blinders were just about off at this point. - It was during this time that rosalie announced that twi had settled the lawsuit with the Allens. This announcement was during lunch in the OSC so all staff were present. Most people were in a daze filled with relief that the adversary no longer could seek to destroy TWI through this lawsuit. There were handfuls of people that simply sat there with a blank stare and I was one of them. I sat there and thought WTF does rosie mean she settled a RICO case (and other charges) that had been levelled against TWI? Settled, that's a payoff to keep it out of court, right? Guess my critical thinking skills were developing in their infancy at this juncture. Ok, after leaving HQ to go in-residence at camp gunnison this is where I started to learn some very startling truths. It was during this time I learned that rosie had two known lesbians living in her basement at foxhaven. Frankly, I coulda cared less about it except twi was so extremely anti-homosexual. I also took time to peruse through old corps night tapes of LCM. Rosalie hadnt had the chance to purge the study hall library at gunnison late 2001. So I heard first hand so many tapes where he defamed standing way corps, et al., went on cursing tirades against the IRS, etc, and was just a complete hateful a$$. Definately not words a true minister would impart. She purged it all before I graduated. Next I dove into university of life. I devoured tape after tape, but it was VPs Roman teachings that I was enthralled with. I was told by one of my corps brothers at the time to read Just and The Justifier by Charles H. Welsch - a student of E.W. Bullinger. I was shocked that the content of the Roman teachings were straight outta Welsch's work, yet no credit was given. VPW took all the credit for the teachings....period! Naturally, this started to open my eyes to the issues TWI should have with vpw's years of plagiarism. They should have but don't care at all. Upon my graduation into the way corps I was starting to become keenly aware of the many problems twi had in front of them to survive as a church/ministry. I was still under the impression that rosalie was the deliverer and was slowly changing things from the inside for the betterment of God's standing belivers in the household of the way. Pfffft. My assignments at hq as assistant DC, DC, and prez cabinet opened my eyes fully to the sad truth. The truth that if the Allen lawsuit never happened nothing would have ever changed. in TWI But change happened anyway so that must be good and rosalie still TWI protector, right? Wrong Wrong Wrong! During a cabinet meeting one Thursday afternoon rosalie went on a rant because a certain clergy member at TWI had skipped the STS to attend their kids softball game. She plainly stated that she hated all the changes that had been forced on TWI over the years as a result of the Allen lawsuit. She said if she could, she would take a baseball bat to the dude who had skipped the STS. If she could she would undo all the changes forced on TWI by their lawyers. IT was during this time that I fully started to realize the simple truth. The way international had been hide vpw's evils for years. But because of craig martindale's evils being brought into a court of law they have had to white wash every aspect of TWI into the bland, boring crap it is today. Most disgustingly, they blatantly hide vps plagiarism, the fact that he was a sexual predator and adulterer. They hide that he was a drunk. he was mean, short tempered, kept body guards. They especially hide the way east and west and the hostile takeover vpw did to Heefner and Doop. My God, where would the list stop if I were to continue? They way is a preservation society that has elevated victor paul wierwille above Christ and knowingly covered sin after sin of it's founder and successor(s). Most importantly rosalie rivenbark has hid her own sins as someone who not only knew that craig was a sexual predator but also helped him conceal his crimes until she risked too much exposure. The way international truly is extremely deceptive in how they have handled God's Word. I'm thankful I witnessed what I did and can put it out in plain sight, So much more could be said, so much more had been said. Here's part of my two cents. - -

This topic, from Wierwille the Patriarch thread..... ......[Geer's Passing of a Patriarch paper] "The final Way Corps location was not at all what we had anticipated. It is located in an area that is far removed from easily accessible transportation. It is also in a very difficult part of the British Isles to facilitate business needs, and perhaps worst of all, it is isolated from any large groups of believers. Our primary choice in England would have had good transportation, easy access to businesses that we had long dealt with and been close to a majority of the believers in Britain as well as being far more accessible to the majority of European believers." The blundering onward of bad decisions......1) Gartmore was far removed from easily accessible transportation, 2) it was very difficult to facilitate business needs, and 3) it was isolated from any large groups of believers. So, this was NOT AT ALL what geer and leadership had anticipated....er, believed for. What? Geer failed the most basic of pfal-premises??? Needs and wants must be parallel. The things that Geer NEEDED and WANTED were not parallel, or consistent, to sound principles of business and/or impacting culture with the Word. The Church Epistles DOCUMENT epicenters of outreach in cities like Rome, Corinth, Ephesus, etc. Why would you move to an isolated area.....somewhat removed from people and commerce? What objectives did you embrace [or violate] to arrive at this juncture? ....[POP paper quote] "We had lost the original location in England that we had selected because our own Way Corps graduates were not capable of handling things involved in getting a location. They just collapsed under the pressure. The increased difficulty in doing business in a remoter area of Scotland made me glad to have the extra time to prepare for Dr. and Mrs. Wierwille's visit." Why were corps grads put in charge of "getting a location?" Who sends in underlings to do MAJOR decisions and/or negotiating? And, notice....how quick Geer is to blame others. NEVER FORGET THAT. It is the modus operandi of vpw and co. Remember....corps were blamed for not stopping the rain at corps week. ....[POP paper] "There were massive things that needed attention immediately upon our moving in. There had been very little maintenance to the roofs and gutters and as a result there was considerable leakage in any event of rain." 1)Massive things that needed attention immediately. 2) Roofs, gutters, leakage needed maintenance. WOW......who missed all these details? Who blundered onward with more blunders piling up? ....[POP paper] "There was almost no hot water and the heating was very poor. We either froze or boiled, and if we boiled we did it at a great cost. There was so little hot water in fact that for quite a while we used the showers adjacent to the large gymnasium in the Knox Centre to shower, which meant walking across the centre of the campus in robes and towels in the wintertime. " OMG.....detail, after detail. Geer's paper is A PUBLIC ADMISSION for all to see that these people have no credibility to lead others!! NONE. And.....this is supposed to be a "training center for leadership?" ....[POP paper] "When we accepted the decision to locate the Corps in Scotland, we had to evaluate whether Chris and Nancy Kent could handle the United Kingdom from Scotland or whether they would have to stay in Altrincham to be central to the country. Finally we decided that with the percentage of our work that was in the southern part of the country it was too much to tack on the additional drive to get to Manchester, let alone from there to the south coast. It became evident that for the work of the Ministry it would be more expedient to leave them in Altrincham. That left us without the man whom we had felt could handle our Way Builders and without Nancy whom we had thought would have been able to handle our bookkeeping." The blunders keep piling up....all because of THE DECISION TO LOCATE AT GARTMORE. Now, they've got to figure out logistics of leadership, personnel, et al. Heck, it's what UPS or FedEx people DO on a daily basis. Geer and his bumbling buffoons have NO BUSINESS trying to lead others. And, this is the guy who set up all kinds of franchises for his classes?? :biglaugh:/>/> :biglaugh:/>/> :biglaugh:/>/> Okay, One More....just to emphasize Blundering Onward ....[POP paper] "When we moved into the facility, there was one telephone which worked only sporadically. We had selected a telephone system to replace the single wall phone that existed upon arrival, but due to the costs involved and other factors we had decided to run all the internal cables ourselves." One. Telephone. That. Worked. Only. Sporadically. OMG.....I can't stop laughing. :biglaugh:/>/> :biglaugh:/>/> :biglaugh:/>/> :biglaugh:/>/> :biglaugh:/>/> .

Good morning. Thought I'd share a bit from my recent website post, "Good People I Met At The Way" "Greetings, subscribers and other readers who stumble across this website. By now, you have probably noticed I have a book in the making. It’s my very personal story of seventeen years in The Way International, a biblical research, teaching, and fellowship ministry that became one of the largest fundamentalist cults in America in its heyday of the 80s. I met many good people at The Way and you’ll meet some of them in my book soon. ... I’ve written many posts about cults and fundamentalism. Today, I just want to make some points clear for those of you who have never come in contact with any Way people before. ... Most Way folks had good intentions about helping people, many desired to serve God in every way, and others sought a godly cause to live for. However, I now consider even the most sincere of Way followers (then and now) as misguided, deceived, and in some cases … gulp … brainwashed. Myself included. Thankfully, with help from many folks, I’ve learned to sort the good from the bad over the years, and am still doing it. My book, Undertow, tells a lot of my story. But the sorting and learning will never be over, even after Undertow is published, which will be soon after the elections next week. In my book, Undertow, you will meet many good people I knew at The Way. Some who have left are still my friends. Some share stories and information at GreaseSpot Café, an online community founded by Michael Duffy that has helped many people recover. * Read the entire text of the post here: The Good People I Met At The Way I think all of us here at GSC owe Michael Duffy a debt of gratitude for his steadfast courage in making this site available so people can access stories and information about The Way that is not available anywhere else. In a democracy, people deserve to have facts from as many sides of an issue, cults included, as they can find before making any decisions about how to proceed in their lives. Cheers to Michael and all of you grease spotters for taking a stand against the propaganda of The Way and mustering the courage to speak out! You inspire me!

Yes JD it was sarcasm. Just another way leadership controlled via confusion and not taking responsibility like, you know, a real leader would.

A dangerous psychopath does not need to be logically inconsistent to be wrong. VPW built a consistant world. Consistant as long as you choose to stay in it. I do not believe you have sufficiently answered why you trust VPW, or why it is acceptable for anyone to do so.

You do know the definition used in the Advanced Class were plagiarized, don't you? Even if they hadn't been, it would be a circular argument using the Advanced Class to prove its own validity.

I think this thread has been a thoughtful discussion by all participants; speaking for myself – Mike, please try not to let your imagination run wild or allow some persecution complex to distort what others have said. I believe in calling a spade a spade and so I’ll refer to something by its appropriate name. If I call vpw a plagiarist – which is true according to all literary and legal standards – except yours – please do not take that as a personal attack or that I’m trying to nail you. Plagiarism is only one of a multitude of reasons why I don’t think it’s ok to recommend vpw’s books. “Is it ok to recommend wierwille’s books?” is the question that started this thread and folks have responded, giving reasons why they think it is ok or it’s not ok to recommend his books. If you would like to draw an analogy with a target and bulls-eye – there should be two targets – one is the pros of recommending wierwille’s books and the other is the cons of recommending wierwille’s books. Honestly, I would have to say there have been a lot of bulls-eye shots on the cons target. Don’t see a whole lot happening on the pros target. Mike, check your ammunition – I think you’re firing blanks.

Ah, GVC, our esteemed leader was "spiritually angry" and we too had to learn what to be spiritually angry about. What he was really angry about was nothing particularly spiritual - it was his wife and Rosalie gettin' it together in more ways than one. Hence, no doubt, his homo rants.

The question arose on the ten year thread if one knew how young women were recruited to sexual servitude in twi. SOmeone once told me about her experience, and I shared it here. I was asked to take my reply there and start a new thread. There was a poster who once shared with a group of us, how she went into the way corpes, young idealistic with every intention of learning to be her best for God. I can only hope that she wouldn`t mind me sharing some of the points that I remember. She said that shortly after her arrival, that she was surrounded by highly placed individuals. Her twig coordinator and her work coordinator, the people in her fellowship... began including her in a pretty exclusive group...the details on this are fuzzy to me now...but When relating the story....she told of how everyone around her was always sharing stuff about how a mog needed his needs to be met so that he could minister to the rest of the body. How that it was an honorable thing...to ensure that there were no distractions to keep him from being his best. Like I said...sometimes the stories jumble together in my head....but it seems like there were talks about all parts of the body being the same...etc...anyway...this girl shared with us, that in her naievety, she never dreamed that these people that had surrounded and isolated her were referring to sex. It finally came to a head one day when her work or tc (I cant` remember which) informed her that lcm desired her for a threesome. I don`t know if this was when lcm was there...or if she was then brought to him. When telling this story, it had the feel to me of her being prepared like a well seasoned dish cooked to perfection and served up to the mog on a silver platter....She was told that this was what her long suit was...yadda yadda....well this poor girl freaked...having not had a clue as to what all of the previous insinuations and teachings were anything other than what they appeared to be on the surface....FREAKED...and declined. She was escorted back to her room, not allowed to speak to anyone, required to pack under their watchful eye, and escorted off grounds. It took her a while to get back to her home state...in which time everyone she ever knew had been told that she was possessed with devil spirits and were they not to speak to her. She had nobody. She said that she darned near didn`t survive. Put yourself in this girls shoes....Surrounded by the most spiritual people you know. The people who have complete control and direction in your life, your tc, whom you must obey, your work boss whom you are accustomed to obeying...all of your new friends, you have no others because you were separated from the rest of your group early on...you have no family or support system outside of this because you have been told to burn all of your bridges....you are then presented to the man of God the man chosen by God to present the light of God to the world...the most important man in your universe....the fate of the ministry, your brothers and sister, the entire world and everything you care about requires this little thing of you in order to be his best fro everyone else....you have been instructed for months on why this is ok and how necessary.... Now it is all on your shoulders....How many would have had the courage to look into the mon of God`s face with your tc standing right beside you and say NO! How many can see themselves numb with shock ... led unresisting as the realization of what all of those teachings really meant....come crashing back in understanding.....who has time to think..time to formulate objections.... Who would numbly comply? Shock and disbelief suspended...afraid...unable to resist... Throw in possibly being plied with drinks..... OK, now imagine afterwards... after the numbness and the shock wear off, as it begins dawning on you what has been done...you have your special friends surrounding you, congratulating you on what a little hero you are for taking care of the man of God. You are patted on the back and congratulated for your spiritualit maturity, and ability to handle these deeper truths about the freedom we have in Christ....Assured that this is YOUR special ministry.... Wouldn`t you WANT to believe that ?? Would you not try to convince yourself that the voice inside your head screaming denial and repugnance is simply just your 5 senses trying to decieve you?? Would you smother the protest, mask your feelings of revulsion...try to believe what they were telling you....rather than consider the alternative??? That the ministry and everything that you have based your life and belief in, that you have given up family and friends, college and career ...that you have decided to commit your life in service to ...is nothing more than a viscious little cult that exploits people for money and sex sad.gif I know in my heart what I would have done. Is it any wonder that there were so many suicides?? Is it any wonder why the women who succumbed would do anything to retain that image of themselves as special and on a Godly mission...even now years after the fact??? I know sad.gif If you think I ought to, I could move all of this to a new thread about how the people were manipulated and seduced. Your call, I don`t want to monopolize this already important thread.

I sometimes wonder if he ever had an original thought, or if he just plagiarized it all. If he didn't plagiarize ALL of it, he certainly gave it a good try. Ever hear that Billy Graham overcame shyness in preaching by going to the woods and preaching to the trees? It's a famous anecdote of Graham's childhood. In TW:LiL, Harry claimed that vpw did it. vpw used to shirk his chores, and go off into the woods for hours at a time. Harry, who did not see him during those trips, said that he knew vpw was "preaching to the trees" when he vanished. So, he didn't vanish to shirk his chores, he went to practice preaching. News to everyone else. His own Dad thought he'd make a poor preacher (as recorded in TW:LiL.) His neighbors were skeptical when he went to divinity school. That's not the response you get to someone who PLANNED to be a minister, who practiced for it through his childhood. Small surprise he told the Corps at least once that he considered 3 fields, including ministry and music. Small surprise that TW:LiL records him as being ready to quit TWICE in his early career as a minister. And that it was a year AFTER HE BEGAN PREACHING that he first heard of the Bible as the Word of God and believing it, also recorded in TW:LiL. He made up for his lack of dedication, his laziness, by cutting corners. He outsourced his sermons. He relied on the work, the dedication, of real Christians who cared and did their best. And slapped his name on it. And to this day, there's still some people buying into that.

I am no exception. Me n my family were subjected to a year and a half of harassment from the bod before we left. Ive recounted a lot of details on GSC. Honestly, that time pales in comparison to what others have been subjected to by the board of dummies and other nut jobs.

That's crazy talk. TWI has entered the Land of Prevailing Loonies.

You know it's really hard to answer this question. I mean with Piffle, it was so boring and outdated that eventually all the grads made up their own responses, kind of like the crew that I used to go watch "Rocky Horror Picture Show" with in college. There was a similar kind of running dialogue in the class that we used to see there with Rocky Horror. It was a way to kind of escape the monotony of listening to the same Piffle tapes over and over again. With the remake, there was a certain "Athletes of the Spirit" / "Men in Tights" flavor to it. Meaning Loytoy's mimic'd narcissistic ego was all over the place. They kind of like re-arranged elements of Piffle and tried to introduce the same concepts like new birth and SIT. The classes were all built like Piffle series around teaching people the "manifestations". (Splinters try to do this too - like CFFM Power of God series). However, this was right in the midst of all the harem activities, and right in the middle of Rosie stealing Donna away from Loytoy. So you have this really weird blend of homosexual rantings going on, just like they were on the Sunday Teaching Service, on Corps night, and in some twisted letters, that kind of spills over into the class. After SIT, then we need to close the class out with an extra special homo rant covering the last verses in Romans 1. What I really think was going on there was I think Rosie and Donna carrying on was really messing with Loytoy's head. So much for "Biblical Research". Actually, I think this answers the question. No, it wasn't as boring as VP's, due to all of this back channel influence. After Loytoys fall from grace, we used his syllabi and taught the classes for a while. Actually I think those went a little better, as I just couldn't summon up the same level of Westboro Baptist-like hate for the gays that Loytoy could. I just don't have the personal experience necessary. And we told stories, instead of really caring whether we covered all the syllabus points or not. People loved the stories, and could care less about the monotony or consistency idiocy. Of course, this ....ed Rosie off to no end, so filming the WAP replacement was real high on her priorities. So she gets Chocolicious, the mad Physicist, and the Research Department together to film WAP 2. (Ru*pp, L0ngl3y, Ch@voust1e). Now this production, in all of its glory, has Rosies fingerprints all over it. Meaning that it is a snooze-fest. Sucked dry of all life within a 500 foot radius. I mean you could not sustain a growing plant on the set of this production, it is that lifeless. Kind of like the STS if you have listened lately. I haven't. But it hasn't changed. And so far, I think Rosie has only managed to alienate and fire one of the three of those teachers, so they have a boring product that is incomplete now too. They should keep her around longer. She's done wonders for the Way ministry. That's quite a long answer for a short question, LOL.

Yes, he's had a bad back for years right ? and unable to work lol...oughta get that believing into gear :)

I found out ("finally !!!!!" - says Tonto) that my wife and kids are the most important "thing" in my life. I found Grease Spot and great folks to think out loud with (Xcuze the bad gram-mer).

I found - abject misery. I was committed to TWI, they weren't committed to me, and threw me out with max ignominy and slander. Lost everything - everything that I hadn't given up previously, to follow the dictates of TWI. What did I find? After 10 years, I found GreaseSpot Cafe. And then - I found out about the lies, deception, ill-treatment, and that the way I'd been treated was nothing to do with me or anything I'd done - it was merely the modus operandi of TWI. And then what did I find? I found healing, peace of mind. Joy in life. Hard times, but I could thrive in them. Great friends, some of whom had "been there" all the time for me. Restored relationships. People who were kind and gentle, and truly loving. Freedom to love and serve. No condemnation. Daily, I find something of the years that the locust had destroyed, being restored to me.

Happy New Year All!!!!! One other anecdote I wanted to share regarding Rosie and quotes she shared in private that are very revealing. Someone in a very small group of people - like 3 or 4, brought up the conversation of outreach goals of the Way. Rosie shared her disdain for the trunk of the USA and shared how one of her personal goals was to get HQ to the point where it was self-sufficient and not dependent upon revenue from US believers. This is why when you investigate the last public financial statements from the Way, you see that there is a substantial amount of revenue income from investments. The last figure I saw was $180k of income from interest. This aligns with an attitude based upon lack of investment. For a ministry that is so centered around Paul, they are clueless to his practicals. He went on 3 subsequent iteneraries across the known world. He did not sit in Jerusalem, build his political capital, and think through new ways to financially benefit.

Classes continue to run according to Vision and Direction. Over time, minimum registration requirements are removed as classes aren't just seeing enough interest beyond Way kids being forced into them. The INT class is remade in much of the same manner as the Foundational Class. The Advanced Class follows a little different pattern. Rather than ramping up for a video and re-doing the whole class all at once, staff members and teachers are used to do individual segment teachings, added to the Way's archive to protect against defects to never again will they have to redo a class. Way Disciples continues as a program - the "modern sales" force spearheading outreach. Way Corps numbers drop to the point that graduating Corps photos (first from Gunnison and then HQ where Corps program is moved) look like a 15 Chiefs and 5 Indians photo. Purges continue - in small and large veins. An example - one son of a clergyman in IO starts up a Ponzi scheme selling fake stocks. V1ct0r H1rschfi3ld. He ends up ripping off one of Donna's sisters for a fair sum of money. They get ....ed, call Rosie. She basically has an interrogation go throughout the involved state, asking people if they were aware of the stock sales scheme. Many were aware he was selling stocks on a periphery level, some were investors. Basically anybody who had any knowledge of this in the whole state was put on probation, kicked out of the ministry, shunned. The Ponzi purge. STS teachings continue according to the same plan and mold. Way mag articles the same. Way Productions, the same Nice, even flowing, vanilla. Yes the ministry is set up on rails to carry it far forward into the future. And, don't blink. 2016. Rosie's time as the President of the Way is up. Her age will force her into semi-retirement, mandated to only work part-time at HQ, not full time, like Howard and Don were retired beforehand, so the precedent is set. Whatever webs she can weave have to be done part time.

So, after a period of time, Corps overworked like always to make leadersh1t happy. Rosie decides it is in the best long-term interest for the Way to remake the WAP class. I mean what other decision could she make in a ministry whose core tenet is plagiarism? It's not like a zebra can change its stripes or anything. Make a new class with a different name? Why, when you can just plagiarize Forehead and W@yne's work, and assign other tools to do the teaching? Besides, we have all these splinter groups that are covering making new classes. In their minds, they are reaching out in a new direction, studying for themselves, teaching new things, forging in new directions in Christianity. They would do better to throw out all Way stuff and completely start over, go back to school, maybe do a "church plant" like they are training divinity students nowadays. Start one up with someone who has no Way experience at all. That way after 20 years, it would look more like a church and less like a splinter cult. But they don't. They continue to glorify VP's name, whitewash his life story, and continue his pattern of plagiarism. The Bible says they teach for filthy lucre's sake - KJV English meaning their motivation is money - to make a living, and increase their power. Anyway, Rosie selects 3 of her main tools to teach the class and there is actually permitted a little bit of personality in the class. Selected are J0hn "Chocolicious" R@pp, St3ve3 "Failed Physics Experiment" L0ngl3y, and D@vid Ch@voustie. They add in reviews by a staff member B3th C0yle which I swear look like audition footage for "The Stepford Wives". Weird inauthentic expression, kind of looks a little off like Anamatronics. Here they can replace those oh so pesky Class coordinator comments which could range out of control with much more vanilla comments. This class pretty much covers the same material as Da Forehead, minus some of the homo rants and de-emphasizing that overall framing of the class ending in Romans 1. Rosie makes a brief appearance looking all regal and pope like. Our good friend John Juedes wrote up a page about this class - http://empirenet.com/~messiah7/rsr_newWap.htm. The timeline here is 2006. What happens after this? Of course - same pattern. Now all Way members must be put through the new class. The one they heard Da Forehead teach. The one they have heard Corps teach live. Now the third iteration through the same basic material. Oh, and since years have passed, some of those cult members have kids that are turning 12. Presto, instant class. Now with numbers and the Way, they have always had some kind of minimum requirements for how many new students for a class. 7 has been like the magic number forever, but in the 80's they had film classes with 25 new students, and boring audio for the smaller ones. When the WAP class is first released throughout each of the 3 cycles, "new students" in the class are those who have taken the old class but not the new class. This way the pattern for these class rollouts is - Limb coordinators run the class for the Corps, Corps run the class for the grads, then runs for new students, and trains up class coordinators, then they run the class. At least in theory. it never gets past the Corps level of running them, because outreach isn't exploding for some reason, and it never will again.

Live WAP classes - so now everybody is freaking out on the field - teaching - "ohhhhmmmmmmmmmmm - The Foundational Class" is such a huge task for the Corps. How do we handle a huge task? By micromanagement of course. Who is the most prolific micromanager? Why Rosie of course. The Corps after the first round goes through attempting this resulting in people turning in 100 hour week schedules from trying to study, balance the huge paper load, and teach the WAP class, is instructed to "spend 1 hour in preparation for 1 hour of teaching" the WAP class. Corps teaches the WAP class basically from the syllabus - we had already amassed a great storage collection of props to make it look more official. The classes went basically according to people's teaching abilities, which widely varied. I would say that maybe half of them were better than the video, not meaning as good a speaker or anything, but just the fact people are teaching a small live group they can sense and cater to needs, emphasize certain things if they had those abilities. Besides none of these field leaders could rage against homosexuality quite like Max Forehead. If I had to categorize the approach people took teaching the WAP class Cover syllabus verbatim Read the scriptures on the syllabus and tell stories The #1 approach produced the same kind of vanilla standard boring teachings as you see on the STS services and Way mags. All life and personality squeezed out of them, formula BS articles and teachings, etc. The #2 approach was exiting for people and they liked it and all, probably more authenticity in the classes, but because the personality wasn't squeezed out, people such as the HQ eunechs would attend a class and report back to Rosie that they were different. Rosie tries to mandate to all the Corps the #1 approach, and succeeds marginally. There may be some mnimal purging of people not listening to this, but not a ton as these people were the only contact source of revenue for the Way to the people.

rfr's had a few threads specifically about her. Here's a few more: "Rosalie Rivenbark the pimp" "Who is Rosalie Fox Rivenbark?" "Ten Years of Rivenbark."

Couldn't happen to a nicer, destructive, neo-Nazi hate group!

I've never thought much about how mini-Corps kids were affected in their thinking patterns. I know how my own barriers were broken down; but at least I had sound principles to (re)build on post Waybrain. But if you never had those boundaries before - if you were raised in TWI with TWI morals, values and boundaries - how hard that must be to adjust to out-of-Way thinking. Hats off to you Bolshevik, and D@n@ F0rt, and other young people of your ilk.

Phychological profiles of presidents' of twit all share a common underlying pathology: delusional paranoid narcissism. Birds of a feather........ I understand much more fully now, the kind of spiritual and psychoemotional abuse young people like you were being forced to accept by your own parents from their chosen religious "leaders". What terrorism against the human soul. I guess you were "mini-corpse" some where along the line, and then your folks must have been on staff at HQ or some place. The thing I am most grateful for about leaving twit is that my oldest child was only seven at the time, and the youngest was two. We refused to send them to childcare because of the wooden spoon discipline applied by non-parents to the children of others. NOPE! Not our's. That freedom to become what their own DNA and nurture allows them, and not be forced to live and love the mean-spirited, lifestyle of da mogs vicariously for THEM and not YOUR own uniqueness. My kids grew up in a normal middle class neighborhood, with a diverse population of other kids in a great public school system in a progressive community. They were NOT forced to go to any church. They were not coerced into fundamentalist, fascist "Christian" Nationalism because they were mini-corpse, or forced to attend boring ill-tempered community meals, hitler youth "childrens' fellowship" indoctrination sessions almost daily, isolation from all the "unbelieving" kids in the area, programmed xenophobia to anything contrary to the mogs' revelation and guidance, embarrassment and shame because of their parents' outdated and spurious religious beliefs and practices, eventually becoming anxiety ridden and clinically depressed because of the imprisonment they feel drowned in. They even go out of their way to understand and really believe what they're "supposed to" only to slam into the reality that it is white, Aryan, fascist ideology along with Nietschean Nazi theology/philosophy that is causing the maddening cognitive dissonance in your head. Then, you start to worry that it's probably debbil spurt possession, or at the very least, "influence"! You're now in an untenable state of being with no escape. Does that somehow come close to describing your experience Bolshevik? Or, am I totally off base? It just seems you sharing that really gave me insight into all your posts previous, some of which I found difficult to fully understand, but now seem to understand much more fully. Thanks for your posts, and please tell me if I'm totally off the mark in what I said above. Thanks Bolshevik, and..........peace.

That's just what bullies do. They take credit for other peoples' accomplishments. Sometimes it's blatant, sometimes it's subliminal. People who haven't come to the realization you eventually came to might go to the grave thinking that topic originated with Rivenbark or, worse, that she was the recipient of divine inspiration.. Your effort to understand it was not at all wasted. It served to teach you a much more important lesson about yourself and about the importance of validating sources. You learned from it. Those whose opinions remain the same, apparently, did not. Who's the winner?

Some random thoughts: Corps go full-time staff. When I first heard that, I thought, If this ISN'T revelation, it's the dumbest thing I can think of. Turning one of your biggest revenue sources into a revenue sink, overnight, certainly flouted "worldly" wisdom. As WordWolf pointed out, there COULD have been some non-obvious benefit (increased classes, book sales, etc.); but, of course, none of that ever materialized. Fun vs. rigid ROA. I took PFAL in 1982 and the Advanced Class in 1983, so I didn't attend a ROA until 1984. I had signed up for Bless Patrol and volunteered for the "Way Chorale." In order to make rehearsals and the "shows" (evening meetings) I traded most of my BP shifts for the late night ones. Still, I was happy to be there. I didn't mind sitting up all night in a drizzle, because I felt I was actually blessing other people. And there was still plenty of free time in the day to socialize. In later years, people from different branches were "assigned" duties (BP, kitchen, bookstore) without any say in it from the people involved. I still enjoyed hanging with friends, but the whole deal seemed to controlled. I have some good memories of ROA, but I'm not sad that it's gone. George

So story I heard is Martindale is getting 65 grand a year.A house.Name still on Gunnison.Talk about a golden parachute. Someone who deceives.tears down will get what is comin'.Your abundant sharing at work Everything we did was to support this?Thank God I got out.God had to work overtime it seems but I ended up ok.....@@ me off as so many did not fare as well

.....buy old .....buy used .....buy cheap .....buy run-down .....use free labor .....cook all meals .....bunk the guests .....guilt guests to work too THIS is the twi modus operandi..... Or, in other words.......MONEY, MONEY, MONEY, MONEY, MONEY Short on money, need money, not enough investment money, fake life till-you-make-it money, etc. Running on a shoestring and exploitive prayer.... Here's an idea....Have the European WOW Festival at a nice conference location. Have SOMEONE ELSE provide housing, meals, set-up, clean-up....and then, Geer....YOU TEACH. Problems-s-s-s SOLVED.

Short term trepidation because people who I thought were my friends really were not and probably never were. This didn't last. I found new friends quickly, through work, hobbies, local community. Those relationships were freer to establish as I didn't have conflict over the ulterior motives expected of me to sell them TWI. More abundance in: Finances - as I no longer had to support local leaders and HQ with my money, also didn't have to spend thousands on moving for them, on taking my vacation to go to their events and listen to them, etc. Time - no more endless meetings with various groups necessary to maintain the control over people Family - closer relationships with them now that I no longer had the TWI infused "better-Christian-than-thou" or "household vs. family" attitude. Career - can travel some for it now when always had to worry if it would conflict with some meeting or event. More time to actually develop one rather than slaving the 8 to 5 then running off to some meeting. Community - now can actually give to my community time, money, effort rather than having it be called a 2nd rate cause. Health - now I have time to work out more, pay attention to nutrition, less stress, more sleep. Organization - now I can keep one calendar with everything in it rather than having to have multiple ones so that the overseer can review it and discuss with me. Self-Worth - can spend my effort on what's in my heart, and what I believe God is working in my heart rather than being used to promote others agendas.

This will be my second Christmas free from TWI doctrin.. cracks me up a bit as well I have been out for a long time.... I will be getting out my manger scene and putting it up Year TWo And I have pulled out my angels... I love Christmas... I always have but I stupidly took on the guilt trip about it that TWI sold.. For me Christmas is special... a time to walk away from the cares of work and money and being selfish... A time to share your love for family and friends.. not that I don't do that all through the year but it is a time to focus on it... and remember what the really important things in life are about...(no not shopping and getting presents, although that is fun)... That we are alive that we have family and friends .. for me that God sent his son. and that sharing with some one in need is an important part of a happy life.

If you ever get a hold of this person tell her she was better off not to sell out to that jerk. Tell her what great integrity she had. I have great respect for someone like this.