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As a grad of the 2nd Way Corps, I thought I'd pipe up and say a few words. It's no secret that I've rejected associating with The Way and have left its teachings in my rearview mirror. Nevertheless here's my opinion about what Vern should consider doing as the new Way president (although I'm not convinced he'll ever read this). Consider this, Vern: Many former Way Corps besides me have realized from personal experience that there is no "accuracy of The Word" that exists for anyone to "return to." In light of that, I ask: What is the purpose of The Way? This is just my opi

(Hope OK to do this; don't want the discussion to be buried in the old way tapes!) A few quotes from the Old Way Tapes thread that are on this excellent needed topic IMO, and my thankful reply: He was grooming us to extend our bounderies of acceptance. (Sorry, the belows didn't copy well) [Waysider posted: He was grooming us to extend our bounderies of acceptance.] [T-Bone posted: I agree. Wierwille’s modus operandi was in developing an undercurrent that grew stronger as one became more involved with the organization (like joining programs a

And he says all that with a great big smile on his face, and something of a chuckle in his voice. Love the way he says, TWI wants to help people become debt-free. I bet they have no idea of preparing a proper budget (a genuine budget to help a needy family that can hardly feed and clothe the kids), making arrangements with creditors for full or partial repayment on terms, what state or other benefits the people might be entitled to; and getting effective help from charities, power companies and other like organisations. I have helped hundreds of people become debt-free and I love d

Been there and done that. It took me working at HQ and seeing the hypocrisy and everyday meanness for me to even consider looking online. And then a couple years after that before I realized God wasn't going to "life his protection" from my life if I did. The first time I read a thread from Greasespot was when I saw a print out of it on Rosalie's desk while I was cleaning. I wasn't prying, just dusting around things. But I do remember that moment very well. At that point I was already questioning the things I saw at HQ, and it struck me as odd that the woman in charge of the ministry

@Lifted Up My post in this thread is the first time I've ever let the universe know about what happened. I was in FC 18 if anyone was there or knows anyone from that time. I know the exact person who did it and her entire family is still strongly in TWI as far as I know. "Saying" those words in an internet forum to complete strangers made me reach out to my brother who is younger than me and I told him about it. All he said was he knew I've been dealt bad cards my whole life and didn't even want to talk about it. I am 6 months shy of 40 and haven't cried this much in decades, or ever

There is a small number of survivors still alive, and some have written books. Others have died in the last decade or two. There's talk of 6 million people of Jewish extraction. There are also millions more of other groups: gypsies, darker skinned people, homosexuals, disabled people - and intellectuals. Some estimate these others at about 4 million; they're often completely overlooked. Even now, the true numbers murdered by the regime are unknown. For this reason, I'm very alarmed when any bunch of people start demonizing any other group. It starts somewhere. Let's demonize ..

I like the total of 1 comment at the very bottom of their web page. But I must say...I really like the comment. LOL

That's entirely possible. However, he shows so many signs of psychopathic/sociopathic behaviour that I tend to think that his response was because we weren't people to him, we were RESOURCES. So, when we thought for ourselves and dared to disagree with him, he took that personally because he was entitled to do all our thinking for us.

Being separated physically by many miles from our families presents it’s challenges. On our minds quite often is how they are doing, what’s the latest movie they watched, how is life with the new boy friend, did they gat the package you sent? Endless little things that make our hearts grow fonder each day. When I was in the Navy in Viet Nam, without a doubt, mail call was the high light of our day. We could not wait for a letter from home or a package containing cookies or candy. A picture of our family or buddies was the absolute greatest thing. Finding out the grandparents were doing j

Oh yeah........twi had its own hamster-wheel of justifying its doctrines and practices. Have the 2nd and 3rd generations ever heard the story of what life was like before 2000? before 1980? Of course.....twi's practices have been self-serving.....and only self-serving......for a long, long time. It didn't have to end this way (spiraling down to its doom). It seems to me, those years 1977-1979 were ripe with outreach and "Word in Culture." With musical groups and outreach......some professional athletes from the NFL and tennis were taking pfal. A professional bull-riding clow

Mornin' y'all, I was born into this ministry about 21 years ago to two Way Corps(e? lol) ministers who worked at HQ from I don't know when to 2013. That means- yes, your logical inferences are correct- I had to spend my entire childhood living in f*cking New Knoxville, OH. There were, I think, only two other kids my age who were born in '98 and stayed through '13; certainly there were none whose parents were fired in '13. So I'm sure whatever poor guy they've got monitoring this has already deductively identified me- but I don't care, I've already put my name to a review on Google Maps

That's why it's good to hear alternate points of view- sometimes what you don't see is more important than what you DO. In regards to the GSC: A) the regulars who post here spend a few minutes a week here. (Any spending more are socializing and that's not twi-related.) B) The vast majority of people who've posted here have moved on with their lives and don't even check in here any more. Some places consider that bad for the place. However, since the GSC is partly about helping people move on and prosper after surviving twi, we consider them SUCCESS STORIES. They moved on an

Blaming devil spirits for everything was like the Easy Button in Way World. Got cancer?...devil spirits. Depression?... devil spirits. Substance abuse?...devil spirits. . And if you don't understand something... just S.I.T. more. This need for easy answers was probably a big draw for people who were searching for meaning, myself included. But guess what, life is complex and sometimes the answers are complicated. Other times, there simply aren't any answers. Life is an endless search for answers but sometimes that's what makes the journey so exciting and rewarding. Never stop searching and que

Right. The goal of the law is to get to know Jesus, the Christ. Get to know the Man, the King, the Shepherd, the Redeemer. The goal of the law IS NOT to get to observe any specific day, or time, or season. We are to do as Jesus did, in heart, soul, mind, and strength. That means: loving and obeying God. And then, loving our neighbours (=those around us, those we come into contact with). It doesn't mean: following all the ritual that Jesus followed, and much of which he poo-poo'd.

Well, I've been thinking about that... and how easily people get conned (in general) these days. So I found an intriguing essay about classic literature that contrasts with VP quite well. https://medium.com/@spencerbaum/3-reasons-why-you-should-read-more-classic-literature-in-2019-e762cb5c910c Call me Ishmael. The famous opening sentence of Moby Dick, so short and provocative, is welcoming and familiar to the 21st century reader, who is accustomed to snappy prose with short sentences and lots of white space. A few sentences later in Melville’s masterpiece we get

"The thing though with you guys, it looks like in a clique, you are comfortable in protecting yourselves and when a new kid in the block comes is with something you don't like (which is quite clearly a commandment in God's word) he gets a hiding. Wait till you face Jesus Christ- and your face will turn pale for rejecting what is clearly a commandment of God. I have showed you in so many ways why it's an immutable commandment of God- and scriptures, left, right and centre- I dont have any hiddent agenda unlike TWI. But if you want to analyse yourself not to do God's sabbath keeping c

"Drive-By Posters"...ah, those were the days! Greasespot Cafe is one of the things that helped me to get a post-TWI life. From the early days, when I was still an innie, venting about various nonsensical Way things, to being an almost daily poster and moderator; commiserating with other posters who were getting divorced from hard-core Way cultists to eventually moving on to other things. I've had the privilege to meet 30 or 35 of you over the years at the Jack Daniels Weinie Roasts, a wedding, my Oakspear 2002 North American Tour and some of you stopping in Lincoln for a cup of coff

Yup, the millet is long gone, but the gut reaction lingers. Ugh. In case you don't know, that's an analogy for the "Word" that VPW fed us, amounting to a con of Himalayan proportions. And I should know. I've actually been to the Himalayan mountains … in May 2009. Socks, eye-witnesses willing to give their two cents are few and far between. I get "fan mail" through the Contact page on my website from former Wayfers either defending VPW and "shame on me," or from some too afraid to speak up or out due to relatives still in TWI or due to their own weariness … which I totally understand. Who

You're welcome! Yes, I have. A little early in my youth but moreso in later adulthood. I've read quite a bit about it and have some favorites in the field, although not many. Philosophy wasn't a popular term in the Way anytime I was involved (68 - 89). Philosophy is often considered antithetical to Christianity which is thought to be anti-intellectual by many. That line of thought contrasts Christianity the religion as being a set of revealed truths, a faith in a revelation that defines life with Philosophy as an inquiry into the fundamentals of life that tries to consider it

Doing the word... well, I'll be out DOING THE WORD leading my team of four Street Pastors this evening, 10pm-3am. We will be handing out warm clothing if needed, and hot drinks to rough sleepers; picking up glassware (whole and broken) to keep damaging stuff away from causing injury or becoming weapons; helping drunk people to sober up sufficiently to get a taxi home; giving out flipflops to girls whose shoes are painful by the end of the night; helping people locate friends and their hotels/bed for the night; and offering kind words to any who are in need - the lost, the lonely, the bereaved

Why were those SIX YEARS (1992-1998) so agonizing?.........not because of the good-hearted folks in Oklahoma, that's for sure. But because of twi's "mission-creep" from elitists at headquarters (cough, cough) who dogged the way corps constantly with faxes, corps teachings, reports, phone calls, verbal attacks, encroaching legalism and more......proclaiming (and further indoctrinating us) that we were the (only) faithful remnant of God's Household standing on "The Word." Yearly themes like......Living Sanctified, Crossing the Bridge into God's Prevailing Word, and the new, upcoming class seri

Welcome, Zanezim, I hope you find some good virtual camaraderie here. I did. I spent 17 years in TWI (1970-1987) and the lovely, non-manipulative people I met but don't see anymore is what I miss most about that time. Over the years, though, I've made new friends whose love is not dependent upon whether I am like-minded with them about the Bible. Relief! Cheers and happy holiday season to you and to everyone here at GSC. Penworks

That was always the accusation, or some variation thereof. God made us individuals, not clones. Be the authentic, Godly, you. Love as fully as you can, be kind, be compassionate, and engage your God-given faculties.

God bless you Grace! I believe your courage and empathy is a big deal - and a blessing - not only to the folks here at Grease Spot but also to anyone else who crosses your path.

Hey, that must have been cool when Martindale said the word was over the world. "I don't have to witness at Wondermall anymore!!!"

Not entirely sure what you have said that is either loving or constructive; but critical, yes! And yes, there is a relationship between GSC's arrival, and LCM's departure. Have you read the court documents detailing his depravity with a certain person's wife? No? Okay, look about and you'll find out why these events coincide. Even now, there are people who have been "out" of TWI for many years (decades, some), who are so traumatized that they are only now addressing some issues. And the people who post (or at least look in) regularly are the ones who hear and understand - in a wa

I have been thinking a lot about how we learn how to show love to others. In TWI we learned a specific brand of love. First, through love-bombing (constant attention, super close friends, praise, etc.), and then through the withholding of that attention and praise to straight-up condemnation, ostracization, and public shaming. And all that negative side of this was also branded as "LOVE" ... They made God into VPW's own image - an abusive Father. And if God is Love... then in order to be godly, we must be the same way. I hurt a lot of people because I "loved" them. I cut my ow

You are entirely right that God works in small settings. Early commandments and instructions to the fledgling people of Israel include this: Deut 7:7 7The LORD did not set His affection on you and choose you because you were more numerous than the other peoples, for you were the fewest of all peoples and if you read the early chapters of Deuteronomy (it's well worth the re-read), it's all about staying pure and close to the heart of God, rejecting falsehoods, and taking care of those who can't look after themselves. This tiny nation was to be an example to the rest of the world and

This just in: Nana has changed course and is now headed for the local bingo hall.

Thank you! It has been an adventure for sure. I wrote it with the idea of helping myself, and maybe in the process helping others. Helping people who were in groups like TWI, and also helping others outside to understand that the people who fall for cults are not stupid or ignorant. The rank and file of TWI were some of the best quality people I have ever known - but the belief system and top down control of the group ruined all of it. The world could have been enriched 1000xs over by those people's kind hearts and abilities. But we wasted them on a false cause. I am going to get those

She used to have L@hn L!nder print them out for her because for years she refused to have a computer in her office or use one at all. I started posting here to expose the things twi wants to hide. However, i always took satisfaction knowing she was reading along.

Beguiled, I don't give much time to TWI. I do visit here from time to time, mainly to see if there are any new people or visitors who can be helped. I learned stuff there (including "what it is not"), and I've learned stuff in the very good church that I attend now. You may find that most of the continuing Christians who continue to post here from time to time think much the same. Can't speak for others, but I find TWI increasingly diminutive in my rear view mirror. Too much to deal with in the here and now. I know the scars and long-lasting outcomes in terms of my life, both n

We know a loaded question from an "innocent" one.

I think you might be comparing apples to oranges – your example with the stop sign assumes I see the approaching speedy car and that I assess it is exceeding the posted speed limit and it does not look like it's slowing down for the stop sign – in that simple scenario I agree with you, it would be foolish on my part to ignore such risk factors from my perspective and judgement. There’s a lot more to understanding the Holocaust - since it involves many perspectives and how people evaluated things, and how involved others may want to get in keeping something bad from happening (speaking in

*sigh* NEVER jump IMMEDIATELY to the conclusion that something is supernatural. Examine the more common, more mundane reasons FIRST. If they don't work, then you can consider that among the possibilities Why wouldn't the Jews have taken heed and flee Germany, etc? 1) A lot of them DID. There's a few big cities in the world who got a surge of Jewish immigrants at that time. 2) Hindsight is 20/20. Honestly, how likely would you consider the idea that someone would come to power over your country, take it over, declare you and yours ILLEGAL and order ever

"Twinky said..."? No, no, no, no, no! Vern said! And Twinky says: "Yeah, riiiight...!" "Cease to be part of the problem"??? (They are the problem!") Be teachable"? (Don't make me laugh!) "See us and know we are His" (see us and run a mile, more like). Since TWI's own MO since its beginning was to be contentious, and thereby to be ... "dividing the body of Christ" I don't seen how things are going to change. What's your position statement, Vern? And where are your efforts to (re)join as "members of Christ’s Body" and fellowship with actual Christians, and even (ha!)

Hi all! Wow what a trip this is here. I was marked and avoided in 1995. How many people get to say they were shunned? I became involved in 84 Little Rock AFB Ar. Was a WOW Amb and advance class survivor. They started to get a bug up their butts when I decided all the dead end jobs were dead end and wanted to go to college. The twisted justification on the Ways part was how dare I rely on education and advancement to supply my needs. Also Martindale was becoming a person who seemed far from Christ like. There was already strike one from moving to go to school.My questioning the crap coming out

Hi everyone, although I did not disclose his name in my memoir, Undertow, Dr. Joseph Bishop was my father-in-law. I was married to Tim Bishop from 1973 to 1991. In Undertow, Tim's name is changed to Ed.

That was Rev. Bishop. He was Tim Bishop’s father, and his church was in Rye, NY. Remember the “Groovy Christians of Rye”? (Life Magazine article, May 14, 1971) As I recall they held Sunday fellowships and larger meetings in a room in Rev, Bishop’s church at the time.

Stay safe, stay home and wear a mask when you need to go out in public. Maintain a physical distance as much as you can and practice good hygiene and health habits. Also, avoid anything recorded by Donald "Duck" Dunn in order to maintain a positive level of musical self esteem.

That was a crazy time. I remember in late ‘69, the US held its first draft lottery, which gave young men a random number corresponding to their birthdays. I got a really high number from the lottery and so was never drafted. I think I have something like survivor’s guilt... whenever I meet and get to talking with a Viet Nam vet – at some point I get teary eyed and choked up. The last time that happened to me was a few years ago – on vacation in Westcliffe, Colorado. I paid the check for him and his family at this little bar & grill…To all you vets and current military, thank you for your s

I'm unplugged from a lot of the information overload items you mentioned there, partly for exactly that reason. They take up all your time, and do it on their terms. Technology can be a tool, but for many people it's a crutch. I've been a fan of William Shakespeare for quite some time. I've been a fan of reading a good book for quite some time. One thing I find interesting about books older than around WWII is that they're written for a FAR more selective audience. Many writers would have been shocked to think of interested laymen reading their books. I once saw someone criticize

I remember one day, in FellowLaborers, looking in the mirror and suddenly wondering "How did I become this person I'm looking at in the mirror?" It wasn't one of those moments where you somberly ponder the situation. It was jolting and instantaneous, like an unexpected slap in the face. It was depressing and horrifying at the same time. I chalked it up to unrenewed mind and silently chanted some since forgotten retemory verse.

Both may be true accounts of what wierwille actually said. I don’t think it’s a matter of conflation on wierwille’s part – where he had combined the two ideas. Maybe in a deluded mind that’s usually inclined towards plagiarism the source of the idea for The Way Tree simply “evolved” ... ...and the more I think about it, the imagery of the way tree may very well be the moot point in all this...as far as the structure - how the whole organization was arranged to supposedly function "properly", it does seem to emulate the AA somewhat - although I think TWI's HQ is far more overreaching in a

Quote- WordWolf replying to Mike B- [There's some who claim it's evil for us to expose what vpw and lcm did- but those same people are not outraged that they did it. To them, it's worse to expose vpw as a plagiarizing rapist who drugged women than for him to have drugged and raped the women. I'm NOT exaggerating.] Me- Yes, keep the image/idol sacred, do NOT pull it off the pedestal. Protect the abuser not the abused since he is 1) their HOPE, they have too much invested in "the way" and 2) re: connecting to the suffering caused by him, they are afraid, mind-controlled, and disconnected i

I agree with Socks regarding this, as I was an eye-witness, like Socks, to the manner in which VPW conducted himself and ran the organization: " … I don't subscribe to the theory that "the Way was fine until Martindale/Geer/Finnegan/Whoever screwed everything up".......His main guys all learned from him and acted in complete alignment with his wishes."

I have forgiven myself; I hear it too many times not to listen, from my counselor, male survivor support group, my faith resources, and a few pertinent online pages. I don;t worry about closure with the ex-Way community, or anyone acknowledging this male being sexually assaulted. But I am very active in the general community; my non Way related friend who helped me break my silence also having co founded a national abuse prevention group, and helping me to laugh and smile (That's her job with everybody). But being loosened up (I heard those words specifically used about me) was not a loosening

The coolest thing about Christianity is that it makes for a lot of wonderful friendships and relationships. I had to learn to not treat it as a company or a business or even an ideal that I was trying to put into action. In the beginning of my Christian faith I didn't see it that way but as time went on I gave little bits of that away in trade for my work, for acceptance and a social circle I felt I could depend on - boy, you find out real quickly in the Way that they really DO NOT have any friends when it comes to The Word, and in order to stay on year after year you have to basically ju