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As a grad of the 2nd Way Corps, I thought I'd pipe up and say a few words. It's no secret that I've rejected associating with The Way and have left its teachings in my rearview mirror. Nevertheless here's my opinion about what Vern should consider doing as the new Way president (although I'm not convinced he'll ever read this). Consider this, Vern: Many former Way Corps besides me have realized from personal experience that there is no "accuracy of The Word" that exists for anyone to "return to." In light of that, I ask: What is the purpose of The Way? This is just my opi

Hello! I was in Ohio for most of my life, raised by my two parents who joined the way in the 70's. I was a somewhat enthusiastic "believer" until my early 20s and then I dove in - went Way Disciple after I graduated college then moved in with ministers in Syracuse, New York. I left everything behind and I was so worried that I wouldn't be okay without "God's protection." But I have to say, my life is improving. I have a master's degree, a great job, a great car, and will soon co-own a home. None of that would have been possible if I was still giving away 10%+ of my income and a

And he says all that with a great big smile on his face, and something of a chuckle in his voice. Love the way he says, TWI wants to help people become debt-free. I bet they have no idea of preparing a proper budget (a genuine budget to help a needy family that can hardly feed and clothe the kids), making arrangements with creditors for full or partial repayment on terms, what state or other benefits the people might be entitled to; and getting effective help from charities, power companies and other like organisations. I have helped hundreds of people become debt-free and I love d

Been there and done that. It took me working at HQ and seeing the hypocrisy and everyday meanness for me to even consider looking online. And then a couple years after that before I realized God wasn't going to "life his protection" from my life if I did. The first time I read a thread from Greasespot was when I saw a print out of it on Rosalie's desk while I was cleaning. I wasn't prying, just dusting around things. But I do remember that moment very well. At that point I was already questioning the things I saw at HQ, and it struck me as odd that the woman in charge of the ministry

@Lifted Up My post in this thread is the first time I've ever let the universe know about what happened. I was in FC 18 if anyone was there or knows anyone from that time. I know the exact person who did it and her entire family is still strongly in TWI as far as I know. "Saying" those words in an internet forum to complete strangers made me reach out to my brother who is younger than me and I told him about it. All he said was he knew I've been dealt bad cards my whole life and didn't even want to talk about it. I am 6 months shy of 40 and haven't cried this much in decades, or ever

There is a small number of survivors still alive, and some have written books. Others have died in the last decade or two. There's talk of 6 million people of Jewish extraction. There are also millions more of other groups: gypsies, darker skinned people, homosexuals, disabled people - and intellectuals. Some estimate these others at about 4 million; they're often completely overlooked. Even now, the true numbers murdered by the regime are unknown. For this reason, I'm very alarmed when any bunch of people start demonizing any other group. It starts somewhere. Let's demonize ..

I recently rediscovered this site and have spent hours and hours reading your posts and your stories. Despite how many years have gone by since you wrote them and since I have been out of twi, I have been moved to tears, outrage, gratitude and sometimes laughter. Although we may not know each other personally, I feel a profound connection with you from our shared experience in twi. Thank you so much for keeping this site going all this time. My brief history with twi: started attending twig in 1973 Fairfax, CA and first took PFAL at a live class (!) at Shaver Lake, CA that summer. I was 1

vpw was determined to make a profit on everything twi- related. If it cost something, he'd try to get it free, or try to get it on the cheap if that was impossible. When he filmed the pfal class, he "bought" the desk for the set, then returned it for a refund, lying and claiming something was wrong to get a refund. Run a class? It's always at someone's home, so we pay no rent, and twi peons supply all refreshments out-of-pocket. All books were charged full retail despite having been printed and bound in-house, all audio tapes were made of a truly inferior quality, a level you couldn't

VPW said it. That settles it. I don't believe it.

Hi all! Wow what a trip this is here. I was marked and avoided in 1995. How many people get to say they were shunned? I became involved in 84 Little Rock AFB Ar. Was a WOW Amb and advance class survivor. They started to get a bug up their butts when I decided all the dead end jobs were dead end and wanted to go to college. The twisted justification on the Ways part was how dare I rely on education and advancement to supply my needs. Also Martindale was becoming a person who seemed far from Christ like. There was already strike one from moving to go to school.My questioning the crap coming out

Annio, very interesting topic. Thanks for posting. I just wanted to add my two cents: When I was young, and insecure, I needed a lot of attention. I think for some kids, attention is a form of security; thus it equals love. However, my mother never understood this; she was very self-absorbed. Throughout, my childhood, I felt unloved, and because of it, I was a very insecure, and unhappy person. However, one day, I realized God loves me. What a profound impact that had on me!! God, Almighty, the Creator of Heaven, and Earth, loves me. Why, I will never know; I am nothing special. I'm

That's entirely possible. However, he shows so many signs of psychopathic/sociopathic behaviour that I tend to think that his response was because we weren't people to him, we were RESOURCES. So, when we thought for ourselves and dared to disagree with him, he took that personally because he was entitled to do all our thinking for us.

Being separated physically by many miles from our families presents it’s challenges. On our minds quite often is how they are doing, what’s the latest movie they watched, how is life with the new boy friend, did they gat the package you sent? Endless little things that make our hearts grow fonder each day. When I was in the Navy in Viet Nam, without a doubt, mail call was the high light of our day. We could not wait for a letter from home or a package containing cookies or candy. A picture of our family or buddies was the absolute greatest thing. Finding out the grandparents were doing j

Oh yeah........twi had its own hamster-wheel of justifying its doctrines and practices. Have the 2nd and 3rd generations ever heard the story of what life was like before 2000? before 1980? Of course.....twi's practices have been self-serving.....and only self-serving......for a long, long time. It didn't have to end this way (spiraling down to its doom). It seems to me, those years 1977-1979 were ripe with outreach and "Word in Culture." With musical groups and outreach......some professional athletes from the NFL and tennis were taking pfal. A professional bull-riding clow

That's why it's good to hear alternate points of view- sometimes what you don't see is more important than what you DO. In regards to the GSC: A) the regulars who post here spend a few minutes a week here. (Any spending more are socializing and that's not twi-related.) B) The vast majority of people who've posted here have moved on with their lives and don't even check in here any more. Some places consider that bad for the place. However, since the GSC is partly about helping people move on and prosper after surviving twi, we consider them SUCCESS STORIES. They moved on an

Blaming devil spirits for everything was like the Easy Button in Way World. Got cancer?...devil spirits. Depression?... devil spirits. Substance abuse?...devil spirits. . And if you don't understand something... just S.I.T. more. This need for easy answers was probably a big draw for people who were searching for meaning, myself included. But guess what, life is complex and sometimes the answers are complicated. Other times, there simply aren't any answers. Life is an endless search for answers but sometimes that's what makes the journey so exciting and rewarding. Never stop searching and que

Right. The goal of the law is to get to know Jesus, the Christ. Get to know the Man, the King, the Shepherd, the Redeemer. The goal of the law IS NOT to get to observe any specific day, or time, or season. We are to do as Jesus did, in heart, soul, mind, and strength. That means: loving and obeying God. And then, loving our neighbours (=those around us, those we come into contact with). It doesn't mean: following all the ritual that Jesus followed, and much of which he poo-poo'd.

Well, I've been thinking about that... and how easily people get conned (in general) these days. So I found an intriguing essay about classic literature that contrasts with VP quite well. https://medium.com/@spencerbaum/3-reasons-why-you-should-read-more-classic-literature-in-2019-e762cb5c910c Call me Ishmael. The famous opening sentence of Moby Dick, so short and provocative, is welcoming and familiar to the 21st century reader, who is accustomed to snappy prose with short sentences and lots of white space. A few sentences later in Melville’s masterpiece we get

"The thing though with you guys, it looks like in a clique, you are comfortable in protecting yourselves and when a new kid in the block comes is with something you don't like (which is quite clearly a commandment in God's word) he gets a hiding. Wait till you face Jesus Christ- and your face will turn pale for rejecting what is clearly a commandment of God. I have showed you in so many ways why it's an immutable commandment of God- and scriptures, left, right and centre- I dont have any hiddent agenda unlike TWI. But if you want to analyse yourself not to do God's sabbath keeping c

"Drive-By Posters"...ah, those were the days! Greasespot Cafe is one of the things that helped me to get a post-TWI life. From the early days, when I was still an innie, venting about various nonsensical Way things, to being an almost daily poster and moderator; commiserating with other posters who were getting divorced from hard-core Way cultists to eventually moving on to other things. I've had the privilege to meet 30 or 35 of you over the years at the Jack Daniels Weinie Roasts, a wedding, my Oakspear 2002 North American Tour and some of you stopping in Lincoln for a cup of coff

I still remember approaching the Advanced Class with an expectation of "spiritual enlightenment", only to be sorely disappointed with its content. It may be one of the most depressing realizations I've ever experienced.

Hey, an acknowledgment that all was not well. It still is not well; "cleaning it up and it's way better now" sounds like denial of what's happened and happening. There's a lot of crises going on at the moment. Perhaps you and Friend can volunteer at a local Foodbank, or pandemic helpcentre, or join a neighbourhood help group to assist the housebound, those who aren't allowed out, those who don't have money, etc. Offer to help at some local church in its outreach to these groups. Yes - volunteer. At something that is not a TWI-event. What does Friend think about that? Ask what

Making phone contact might be good; if it gets too edgy, you can always make the excuse that there's somebody at the door or some such. If you really were friends before, then it could work out well. If they've still got links with C Geer, or G Wrenn, I'd be somewhat wary. There's a thread about Wrenn somewhere here; and plenty of words about Geer. I reconnected with my Corps sister after many years; we had a good time together and remain friends. Most of 'em I wouldn't particularly want to hang out with again. On the other hand, I hooked up initially with some ex-Wayfers and i

Speaking of The Way and the coronavirus – I wonder if anyone in or out of TWI has heard of any other “official” or even unofficial responses or statements coming from upper leadership about the coronavirus other than what has already been said on this thread by Rubina. I was looking on TWI’s website ( here is The Way's website ) and did not find any articles that address the pandemic - I did not look at every article – so maybe something got overlooked. I read an article posted Dec 30th 2020 “The Lilies and Grass of the Field” by The Way (see below * on a side note) and it’s jus

LU, I went WOW in 1978, and vaguely remember that meeting. What did he expect when he sent out families, of two young men, and two young women?

It seems that we occasionally get posters who think they have some sort of inalienable rights to things they don't. Here's some friendly reminders. 1) The GSC is a private messageboard that is open to the public. The Admins and Mods determine the rules, and have final say on all disagreements. 2) You don't have any authority to overturn their decisions. You can make a logical case for something. If they disagree, you can either drop it or refuse. 3) Picking fights with staff results in warnings, deleted posts, deleted threads, and temporary or permanent bans. 4)

So, some people want to just sweep it all under the rug. They think it doesn't make a difference. Their motivation? They WANT to think JAL is reliable, they WANT to be able to trust him. This lends stability to their beliefs without bothering to find a competent leader. That's the "why" of it. But, are they right? John Lynn has taught error, repeatedly. John Lynn still teaches error, VERY QUIETLY. Does it matter? This is the same John Lynn whose actual Christian "education" doesn't really exist. He learned from a plagiarizing rapist who emphasized people

Grease Spot is a good conduit for therapy. I think discussing bad experiences is more than telling the other side of the story (as important as that is). Thinking about these recent posts reminded me of how much good therapy I get from Grease Spot. I know I must bore some old timers here when I go over and over again and again some of my experiences . Some of what motivates me is to provide a point of resonance for others who have had similar experiences – so they won’t feel they’re weird or alone. But I sure get a lot out of it too! So I googled “therapeutic to talk to others about b

Alexander the coppersmith did me much evil: the Lord reward him according to his works. There's this interesting notion. It persists among ex-twi, and, apparently, NOBODY ELSE. This notion is- it is WORSE to expose vpw, lcm, JAL, etc as rapists or embezzlers or simonists than it was for any of them to actually BE a rapist, embezzler, or simonist. The idea is that God is less pleased at whisle-blowers than at felons who still victimize His people. it's a bizarre idea. Verses like II Timothy 4:14 make it obvious- as if one has to actually be told it's obvious.

Thank you! It has been an adventure for sure. I wrote it with the idea of helping myself, and maybe in the process helping others. Helping people who were in groups like TWI, and also helping others outside to understand that the people who fall for cults are not stupid or ignorant. The rank and file of TWI were some of the best quality people I have ever known - but the belief system and top down control of the group ruined all of it. The world could have been enriched 1000xs over by those people's kind hearts and abilities. But we wasted them on a false cause. I am going to get those

THIS. THIS. This is why I could not leave the group for so long. 1. My family went into the FC when I was just over the age limit. So, my entire family left me behind. - RELATIONSHIP WEAKENED 2. Abandoned, I had nowhere else to go, so I obeyed my parents and went WOW so that I could have some kind of support around me. WOW became my family. FAMILY RELATIONSHIP REPLACED BY TWI 3. I stayed in Las Vegas with some of the WOWs on my team afterwards - where else would I go? My family was still in FC for another 2 or 3 years. FAMILY EVEN MORE WEAKENED 4. Family was

Welcome!! Keep browsing here. That’s how I got my family out. He was brought up from birth in TWI so old habits die hard. Just realize that you escaped the cult and now you can find what you like / love/ want without the pressure of having to put “the Ministry first”! Oh I know they say Gawd First but the ministry = God =ministry and all that. take it one day at a time. You’re in the right place - keep searching for peace!

Beguiled, I don't give much time to TWI. I do visit here from time to time, mainly to see if there are any new people or visitors who can be helped. I learned stuff there (including "what it is not"), and I've learned stuff in the very good church that I attend now. You may find that most of the continuing Christians who continue to post here from time to time think much the same. Can't speak for others, but I find TWI increasingly diminutive in my rear view mirror. Too much to deal with in the here and now. I know the scars and long-lasting outcomes in terms of my life, both n

Twi has evolved. When wierwille was president......he was the CEO, the Chairman of the Board, the Founder, the Teacher, the Preacher, the Researcher, the Plagiarist (oops), the Book Author, the Music and Talent Screener, the Way Corps Director and the P.T. Barnum of the Traveling Circus. No one could fire him. No one could confront him. His enablers and inner circle were loyalists to keep his secrets to his deathbed. Martindale assumed the same power.......but he did not have the same leverage over the youth as wierwille. The presidency held the power over the cult followers. A

I'm wondering if she sees that the WC is so small, and numbers continue to fall, and she doesn't want to be the one left holding the parcel when the entire shebang finally collapses. Then, she can blame the ultimate failure on somebody else. I don't doubt that in leaving the Prez-ship or whatever she called herself, that she negotiated a good exit package. Rather than a regular weekly or monthly pension, maybe she negotiated a biiig lump sum, which couldn't be clawed back from any assets that will have to be distributed if TWI is wound up. You can be sure she didn't leave empty-handed,

Just finished reading the book. it was very easy to follow with a linear one dimensional storyline as well as it should be - a straightforward recounting of subjective events as they happened to one person. There was some, but not much, introspection during the telling of the tale because, for the most part, it wasn't neccessary; but rather the telling of the struggles for survival and mere existence. It's a tale that can only be fully understood by those who endured the horrors, but it's a tale we as humans should take heed. Reviewing the flow of this thread is a good reminder for me o

We know a loaded question from an "innocent" one.

Are we back to Holocaust denialism? I thought we dispatched with that ahistorical anti-truth nonsense back in the early-aughts. 6 million Jews were exterminated by the Nazi regime during the Holocaust. This is a matter of fact not subject to debate.

I think you might be comparing apples to oranges – your example with the stop sign assumes I see the approaching speedy car and that I assess it is exceeding the posted speed limit and it does not look like it's slowing down for the stop sign – in that simple scenario I agree with you, it would be foolish on my part to ignore such risk factors from my perspective and judgement. There’s a lot more to understanding the Holocaust - since it involves many perspectives and how people evaluated things, and how involved others may want to get in keeping something bad from happening (speaking in

This is not surprising. At age 80.....I would imagine that Rosalie is tired, truly tired, of keeping up daily pretenses. And, looking in her mirror.....it was time to face the reality that her aged body is not camera-ready without a lot of constant work. The daily grind of details.....who quit, who exited, and who is going to go in and do damage control. Hundreds of corps have exited since 2005. And, that 2017 exodus took a swath of "big-names" (moynihans, forts, horneys, magnellis, fredericks, etc.) many who'd been involved since the early 70s. Even for Rosa-lie.....that had to

Let that be a lesson, Scott. Never question Dear Leader. Dear Leader knows all and sees all. Ah, what the hell. Welcome to GSC. We forgive you.

Oh, and Waxit's source for he cut-and-paste on the Noahide Laws was from here: http://www.ccg.org/weblibs/study-papers/p148.html?craw=y http://www.ccg.org/english/S/a1.html Hm. Looks like Waxit's entire POV reads like this group's website, especially their Statement of Beliefs.. including judging us in keeping of New Moons and Sabbaths, and in respect of holy days.

I remember one day, in FellowLaborers, looking in the mirror and suddenly wondering "How did I become this person I'm looking at in the mirror?" It wasn't one of those moments where you somberly ponder the situation. It was jolting and instantaneous, like an unexpected slap in the face. It was depressing and horrifying at the same time. I chalked it up to unrenewed mind and silently chanted some since forgotten retemory verse.

Yeah I got a life...just so happens Grease Spot is an enjoyable part of my life. Raf, cheers to you and Paw and the moderators and everyone else that keeps this place going. stay safe!

Nevertheless, keeping physical distance (6 feet) from each other is the MOST important thing we can all do to limit the reach of the virus in this pandemic.

I have forgiven myself; I hear it too many times not to listen, from my counselor, male survivor support group, my faith resources, and a few pertinent online pages. I don;t worry about closure with the ex-Way community, or anyone acknowledging this male being sexually assaulted. But I am very active in the general community; my non Way related friend who helped me break my silence also having co founded a national abuse prevention group, and helping me to laugh and smile (That's her job with everybody). But being loosened up (I heard those words specifically used about me) was not a loosening

I had a very pleasant splinter group experience and have very little negative to say about it. (It was Vince Finnegan's group) But as I am no longer a believer, I'll just leave it at that.