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Showing content with the highest reputation since 01/19/2011 in all areas

  1. 7 points
    <takes a seat and pulls out a menu> Hello All- There's quite a bit to unpack from 30 years. Bare with my rambling thoughts as they all get down. A third-generation "legacy", I only knew TWI as truth absolute. A child of the 80's, I remember growing up and having The Way being the only way. I took each class in the entire class series the exact week I was eligible, and repeated every chance I could. I only knew LCM as the fount-head of all things godly, and worshipped with (at) him through the birth of the new class. I soldiered on through his fall and stood behind my identity as a chosen part of the faithful remnant throughout the early 2000's. I pursued a degree and lead fellowships, certain I held forth what I knew to be the epicenter of the spiritual world. Once I got close to graduation, the promise of getting a job became VERY real. In a market the began to shrivel, I went from interview to interview, each time putting in hours of deliberate, thoughtful prayer and reflection, certain that the God I knew dwelt in my fellowships and that I was told would never let any wrong befall would come through in the clutch. Each time, nothing. Each time, disappointment. Each time, words came from those more seasoned as "Renew Your Mind", "It's not the spiritually best for YOU!", "God's got something bigger for YOU!". This was the first time I needed to prove God had my back. Long story short, I cobbled together enough to get by, but nothing close to the Eph 3:20 I was told time and time again. I got married, to an amazing and supportive spouse, who left her church to join up. She realized if she wanted tot be with me, she had to drink the Koolaid, and drink she did. She practically did a keg stand with that Hawaiian punch. Together, we weathered many situations that were far from the rosy scenes painted on STS tapes (or CDs or VHSs). Real life was hard as hell, and the God of the lectern and the magazine was not as quick to come through. There was always an explanation, mind you, but should not have to be this hard. "Maybe we're not studying enough. Maybe and hour daily is just a start.". "Are we giving enough? We're at 20%, but could we do more to prove our commitment to God and not our paycheck". We ABSed our meager earnings, lived in apartments, drove our terrible, leaky, beaten cars, and gladly taught others on how much God loved us and would provide. Any positive event in life was championed as proof of TWI's system. It began to seem like a lens that made all the bad not their fault and any positive thing their cause. Perspective. Fast forward to a fourth generation being born. Numerous requests from insiders to go on Staff and change from within. By this time, my life had changed. The grind of finally getting (and keeping) a real job meant hard work. I began to feel like everything in the ministry was a motion. Same old collaterals. The articles in the magazine were SOOOO predictable, as were the overly scripted services. Title, personal anecdote, verses, three main points, conclusion, blanket "Let's continue to..." statement... repeat. I felt as if I wasn't learning anything. To challenge myself and scratch my own spiritual and intellectual itch, I started my own studies and digging. ANy time I would bring these up, I was chastised for going solo and delving into what was already researched. I should re-search what is already available. By this time, I could hear an introduction and immediately know which verses would come up. One STS, I wrote on my wife's notes five verses. Sure as dang, each one was ticked in the course of that scripted speech teaching. I stopped taking notes. I stopped putting time into my teachings at fellowships. I started coasting. I could see others going through the same motions. I used to talk about all of the interesting connections and parallels the moment a great teaching was done. Now I saw how quickly others began talking about their week, their boring lives, their.... anything but the bible. Truth was, it was the collaterals being taught again and again and again. LCM was disavowed, never to be mentioned. All that was safe was the collaterals. So that's were everything went, and still are. Last flash is to the moment I realized how crumby the long-term TWI plan is for those out in the field. Find a menial job, work hard and don't rock the boat. Try to witness but we only need seats for the class- if it's just a connection, move it along. SELL SELL!!!! Find an apartment, move every few years, drive a 5 year+ model car (and keep that cardboard so you don't mess up the driveway). Long-term planning? You don't need that. God's got you. I woke up one day to realize my parents have no retirement and no equity of ANY kind. I didn't want that. I began looking at houses and tried every way to get one without getting a loan. Couldn't do it, so I tried to ask permission. Another post needs to explain this hot mess, but needless to say it was not on the menu. I forged ahead to the disapproval of many. Kid number two arrives- I stop going to STS. Our last trip, I don't even open my bible. I hear and scrutinize the entire presentation better than I had every encapsulated with my notes. (Oh the notes, but I digress...). On our way home, my wife says "What an electrifying teaching!". I let the air clear for about 5 seconds and say "Was it?". Her face was as white as the audience at any given STS. We then discuss very openly our current role in the ministry and where we saw our spiritual lives. Needless to say, it was the beginning of the end. We limped along for a few more years, mainly because of the sweet people that genuinely did care about others and the large family/friend connections. This is certainly a fact that cannot be overlooked, but we were killed with kindness and not won by spiritual truth. We eventually decide to skip fellowship for any convenient reason, attend other church services on Sunday mornings, and try on many religions/denominations. It came to a road that lead to us moving and telling our new coordinators we were out. I felt it necessary to go out on my terms, not middle-fingers a-blazing, but with a truthful talk. We left about two years ago. There were some rough times, including much anger that has not fully gone away. I still struggle with what could have been or should have been, a fact that I can't completely let go of, but am getting closer. I burned my syllabi and collaterals, but still have their haunting memory (and .pdfs! that's a fun post as well!) in my mind. Religion is no longer something I value, and, current spiritual beliefs aside, I was able to emerge with clear and cogent truths I hold to, truthfulness and integrity being paramount. I have spiritually sherpa'd a few others out of TWI, and gotten immense satisfaction for helping them think and process, not just bad-mouthing their religion. It's rewarding to truly help people, not blanket their needs in retemories or promises of a brighter day that never comes. It's rewarding to see them break the chain of mediocrity and a quiet life of apartments and ABSing to pay for staff cars (another post). I loved helping them and reassuring them the devil will not take them should they decide to take off the name tag. My bourbon is getting low, as is my battery. Time to refill both. I have lots to say, and not sure how much/when to do it. I have many damning things, but not sure how it could help me or others. I don;t want to go back to the post-exit anger and rage that consumed my evenings (too late for that today! Oh well...), but I think a healthy processing and sharing for those who discover this site (like I did) will help clearer thoughts and heads prevail. I know TWI is not the epicenter of the spiritual world. I know TWI is pyramid of those working the ladder upward. I know TWI is a shell built on a few books and lock-step loyalty. I know that 30 years is far too much CollateralDamage.
  2. 7 points
    Don't know if you will remember me....I was on about 13 years ago, then not until now. I started out as chinson ... then married Stevelw! .... and kinda dropped off the map. Update: kids are all grown, still very happily married to Stevelw! , got a masters in Clinical Mental Health Counseling and am now writing my dissertation for a doctorate in Counseling Psychology. Working as a mental health therapist and loving life! Wanted to get back to "the spot" cuz so much of my life was made better by the loving people on this site and the support, friendship, and occasional kick in the butt... So...Hello Again (music from the Jazz Singer with Neil Diamond swells)
  3. 6 points
    Hi All! Well....I actually finished forcing myself to listen to those lying, sanctimonious, self-deluded fools. I could only take it in 8-10 minute segments, once a day. I felt as if I was watching the defendants at the Nurenberg trials lying their sleazy butts off. Where were they 30 fucking years ago?? These self-serving phonies were the Goehrings, the Eichmanns, the Goebbels, the Speers, the Himmlers of dictor paul's Aryan Nazi cult. I remember some letter writings back in 1986 and1987. I remember these same little Nazi asskissers congratulating themselves over and over for coming to the aid of da forehead throughout the 1990's buying every absurdity he made them believe and thereby carrying out the grand atrocities he devised in his pathologically disturbed mind and corrupt soul. NO ONE HELD A GUN TO ANY OF YOUR HEADS YOU CHICKENSHIT SELF-SERVING PIMPS AND WHORES. I remember old Boob himself so strung out on self-pity and anti-depressants that all the little crybaby could do was sit in meetings with his head on the table crying the crocodile tears of a zombie-wayfer. Horney sounds like a tape of da dancing president. There must not remain a single coherent, non way-brained braincell left in that clanging cranium. And Funnyboy Fort. Get em laughing on the way to the Gulags or push em into the gas chambers, l'il standup wannabe, Mikey the trustee's kid. I won't even get started on their perky, cutesy, smarmy, little slut wives. What a ship of fools. The combined courage of the cowardly lion and a combined IQ of 70. They ALL KNEW the truth about dictor paul, Rosie, da forehead and Donna, coward, ding dong, townsends, cummins, geer, finnegan, lynn, wrenn, et al, as well as their own filth over these many decades now. I was there you jerks. I KNOW! YOU KNOW THAT I KNOW. BUT, MOST IMPORTANTLY, THE LORD JESUS CHRIST KNOWS. And he will surely say to all of you hypocrites and spiritual cadavers, "I never knew you!". And, certainly, and obviously, you have never known Him! Selah!
  4. 6 points
    Like I said on the other thread that referred to this letter, the delusion continues. For one thing, the "accuracy of The Word," is a mirage. If you don't believe that, try looking at any number of different versions of the Bible and see the differences. It's pretty obvious to anyone who reads carefully. To me, this letter is evidence that the signers are so enmeshed in the ideology that VPW dreamed up, I doubt they will ever change. But I am proof people can extricate themselves and really change, so I can't predict what will happen with these folks, despite the decades they've invested. I can tell you that in about 1998 or 1999, I contacted Do+tie Mo*nihan, who was at the time the Limb leader of Florida with her husband, Bob. I had found their phone number in the telephone book (ah the pre-internet days, at least for me). I was divorced, attending college, and working full time. I had been out of TWI for more than 10 years. The reason I called was to ask how her experience in graduate school for mental health counseling had helped her help people in TWI. I was considering going into that field. I also wanted to find out how she could justify continuing with TWI knowing of its extreme problems. At the time LCM was still president. She met with me, but she had asked if she could bring another 3rd Corps grad, a TWI-ordained woman with her, someone I had known over the years, too. Understand, I had not seen either of these women since 1987 at HQ just before I escaped. I said sure, bring her. We met in a café in Winter Park, FL. During a friendly, but surreal conversation, at least for me, I asked Do+tie why she had stayed with TWI. She said she wanted stand with her ordained husband. She also said she was a simple believer. Let the research be done by others, she would believe it,. like Uncle Harry used to say. It was then I told her flat out that TWI had never been a research ministry. I had been on the research team, which she knew because she was at HQ when I resigned from the team. I told her that "The Word" was whatever Wierwille said The Word was. Period. She looked shocked. She turned to her friend and they exchanged a glace I knew too well. I'm sharing this because it is not news to at least one of the signers of this document (Do*tie) that The Word was of Wierwille's making, yet she and the others persist in their delusional beliefs about Wierwille and the Bible. Those two things combine to make a strong tonic. In my view, this letter is proof of mind control if there ever was proof. Any ideology that tells you that your feelings do not matter, only The Word matters (which VP said all the time) is abusive. No one deserves to be abused. No one. People who were abused and continue to rationalize it, continue to name it something else, continue to dismiss it, will only continue to perpetuate it. What I recommend is that we keep sharing our stories here. You'd be surprised who might be reading them. There is another way of life, a better way, than offered by The Way International. We need to share our stories with our children and grandchildren. I can't tell you how many second generation Wayfers (or who they are) have contacted me about my story in Undertow, thanking me for shedding light on TWI, telling me it has helped heal them. If TWI was so great, then why do they need healing? Why do we need healing? Isn't it a pity that it's all come to this? That VPW's legacy is pain, confusion, and destruction? My hope is that the generation my daughter is a part of will someday see these GSC posts and learn from them, look through this window into their parents' pasts and understand the seriousness of mind control and its collateral damage. Sadly, they are a part of it in some form or other, some more than others, but many are still in denial just like their parents. Spread the word about helpful resources. I'm hoping to be part of a healing solution, which I think involves serious education. In my view, one of the best books for understanding all this is Bounded Choice by Janja Lalich. To those interested, you can check out Lalich's book and others at your local public library. In 1987, libraries were the immediate source of my healing. Then came people I could trust who did not have any stake in my life other than to encourage things that served my best interest, not their ego. Cheers, Charlene Lamy (former married name: Bishop) Edge former marked and avoided 2nd Corps Grad
  5. 6 points
    Thanks for posting this, Rocky. It made me laugh in amazement ... then sigh with disbelief ... the delusions continue ... really, the delusions began with VPW.
  6. 6 points
    What a total load of bullocks. How much more inventive can TWI be, in belittling people? Most everyone you meet has a debt - a mortgage - that they are working to pay off. It's cheaper than renting, often. (Even though my mortgage is quite a lot of money, it would be nearly twice as much to rent a similar place - and I couldn't rent anywhere remotely habitable for what I pay in mortgage... a grotty bedsit, maybe?) (Actually, I couldn't even afford to rent a place!!) Debt has risks, true, but there are risks in not having debts. Much better to help people think about their money in a proper manner, learn to budget properly, and work out the best way to borrow if there is really no other way. My church hosts a Christians Against Poverty debt centre to help people in debt. Helps them manage finances, gives them a compassionate hand up when they're crushed by debt, sets up debt plans and even bankruptcy (so as to give a fresh start). Isn't that a better way to encourage people with debt - rather than beat them over the head with Bible verses? And the gentle compassionate approach - guess what! - leads some people to choose to become very thankful Christians.
  7. 5 points
    The announcement that you, Jean-Yves, will be twi's next president has reached GreaseSpot Café. Knowing you from those early days in Quebec City, and your WOW year in Toronto.......I am not surprised that you rose up thru the ranks of leadership. Clearly, in your former years, you had discipline, drive and heart-felt compassion for others. When you were assigned to one of Toronto's WOW teams, I personally made sure that Rene and Sonia [ if I remember her name correctly] were in your WOW-family.....Rene needed extra attention being wheel-chair bound, and Sonia was so innocent, lovely and beautiful that I knew you'd be the right person to help them. And, after your in-residence year......I was honored to perform your and Michele's wedding in 1988. As twi continued to endure Chris Geer's call to "return back to the wierwille-indoctrination doctrine" with his arrogance assertions......twi went thru turbulent times, for sure. Martindale, Don and Howard were thrown back on their heels and were reeling in a defensive posture for a number of years. During this time, you and Michele were staffers at headquarters and saw much of the destruction of people's lives. Yes, for 28 years......you have been intricately ensconced at the upper-tier levels of twi-hierarchy and groomed by "leadership" at hq and therefore, removed from understanding the emotional, physical and spiritual abuse that has been thrust upon the followers. I am saddened, Jean-Yves, to see that you never connected the dots of this abuse and evil. The scriptures give us wholesale examples of how the Pharisees burdened the people with guilt, shame, and fear to maintain their positions of power. You see, Jean-Yves.......there are reasons why some 480 clergy and 3,000 corps grads no longer follow the doctrine or tenets of wierwillism. The mog-doctrine was a fraud perpetrated by wierwille to enrich his power base and control over the youth. Even back then, the older folk were abandoning him left and right......as even wierwille had noted that time and time again. And, when wierwille schemed to offer the sunset corps an "opportunity" to build a cabin at their expense at Camp Gunnison [that twi would later inherit upon that person's death]......NOT ONE ELDERLY CORPS PERSON bought into it. Notice how the elder corps were skeptical and suspicious of wierwille's shenanigans.....even though they were "corps trained?" Clearly, the days of Rosalie's tenure as president has been little more than manage the perceptions......after all, twi really doesn't have a research department any more, do they? And, the teachings are bland regurgitations that were scoffed at even by wierwille's pfal class renderings of religious veneer. Why would a "spirit-filled believer with all power" NEED to read his/her sermon? And then, is there really any full-sharing fellowship going on......or are people just going thru the motions? I think, if you were really honest......you know the answer. So....its not really a "Research, Teaching and Fellowship Ministry" is it? Perhaps, you will slip into the big chair and be able to make BIG CHANGES during your tenure......to elevate Jesus Christ in his rightful and honored place as lord, savior, and mediator between God and man. Perhaps......you will turn the ship 180 degrees and get back to true Christian values where believers are guided by holy spirit within. Perhaps.....you will be able to clean the ranks of arrogant and abusive leaders that have sat in their seats of power at headquarters for 30+ years. But if you are going to make any difference whatsoever......you will have to keep Rosalie and Donna from whispering in your ear on a weekly basis. All the best to you, Jean-Yves. Just know that "the power of that office" is not of any significance in the sight of God......UNLESS you use it for good, to unburden and heal the brokenhearted and those [still] in captivity. [Luke 4:18] .
  8. 5 points
    Good morning. Thought I'd share a bit from my recent website post, "Good People I Met At The Way" "Greetings, subscribers and other readers who stumble across this website. By now, you have probably noticed I have a book in the making. It’s my very personal story of seventeen years in The Way International, a biblical research, teaching, and fellowship ministry that became one of the largest fundamentalist cults in America in its heyday of the 80s. I met many good people at The Way and you’ll meet some of them in my book soon. ... I’ve written many posts about cults and fundamentalism. Today, I just want to make some points clear for those of you who have never come in contact with any Way people before. ... Most Way folks had good intentions about helping people, many desired to serve God in every way, and others sought a godly cause to live for. However, I now consider even the most sincere of Way followers (then and now) as misguided, deceived, and in some cases … gulp … brainwashed. Myself included. Thankfully, with help from many folks, I’ve learned to sort the good from the bad over the years, and am still doing it. My book, Undertow, tells a lot of my story. But the sorting and learning will never be over, even after Undertow is published, which will be soon after the elections next week. In my book, Undertow, you will meet many good people I knew at The Way. Some who have left are still my friends. Some share stories and information at GreaseSpot Café, an online community founded by Michael Duffy that has helped many people recover. * Read the entire text of the post here: The Good People I Met At The Way I think all of us here at GSC owe Michael Duffy a debt of gratitude for his steadfast courage in making this site available so people can access stories and information about The Way that is not available anywhere else. In a democracy, people deserve to have facts from as many sides of an issue, cults included, as they can find before making any decisions about how to proceed in their lives. Cheers to Michael and all of you grease spotters for taking a stand against the propaganda of The Way and mustering the courage to speak out! You inspire me!
  9. 5 points
    I'm not even going to bother listening/watching to the R&R presentations you all are talking about. I remember when we got the boot writing a four-page letter explaining our situation to the Reverend Mr. Fort. We felt we had been unfairly treated by D*&e M1ln$r, the branch coordinator, and wished to clarify what we saw as his sarcastic, legalistic, unreasonable attitude. The Most Exceedingly Great and Mighty Man of God the Reverend Mr. Fort wrote a snide, snarky sarcastic little note on the last page of our letter and sent it back. Something like "Amazing that you take four pages to explain what D.M. could explain clearly in four sentences in a phone call. Don't bother trying to come back." I did figure out where D.M. learned his nasty, sarcastic ways, though. The Moneyhands as you call them were limb leaders in a state we lived in. They were, to my humble observation, very very very very superior to us mere peasants. The Mrs. did offer to administer some kind of a personality test to me, which I declined. "Don't you want to know how you think?" she asked me. "I believe I'm supposed to think the Word of God." I replied. I don't have a terribly good impression of her brand of psychology. Didn't trust her then or now. I don't remember meeting any of the other people on the list. Sad, though, to think they are setting themselves up to delude, degrade, and destroy even more hapless souls than they already have. Not a single one of them is worth a penny of my money or a second of my time.
  10. 5 points
    skyrider, thanks for sharing all of this. 1989 was the year TWI sucked me in, although I'd taken PFAL in 1985. I was advanced class grad twice over by mid-90s, and the later 90s were such a nightmare. all the M&A, and I was living in a pretty remote area and was semi-M&A myself for a period of time where I was required to do that horrible schedule, but mine was in 15 minute increments and I had to write a weekly report on how well I stuck to my schedule. and I was scared the entire time... of not renewing my mind, of the adversary killing my kids because of my mistakes (that were blown all out of proportion, all the way to HQ and back to closed-door meetings where I was worn down and coerced into consent) and I came to doubt every thought in my head. they took away my autonomy, completely. it was this group of people here at GSC who helped me finally leave in 2006. I could not have done it without you. I had nothing and no-one, and it took a long time to heal. I've been mostly absent from the café the last few years still dealing with fall-out from the cult years, but also to a large extent rebuilding a better life, one true to myself. I've been compiling things into book form for my kids because I'll eventually pass on, and I feel like my kids deserve some explanation of those years, and it's still really difficult to put it into perspective, so I've been lurking here a bit more lately. this thread stirred up a lot of memories. I remember when the announcement came down that the L people were going to take over your job. it felt horrible and wrong, and I stopped trusting everyone, so I was alone for all those years. I was conditioned not to trust outsiders, and I knew I couldn't trust insiders. gods, it was so horrible. when I left in 2006, I was so scared. I was scared of my children getting killed for my waywardness, and I was scared of getting phone calls and visits because I'd heard so many times that's what you do when you don't see someone at twig... but in the end all I got was an email. I was too poor to tithe much, so I don't think they cared much that I left. it still took years for me to learn how to make my own decisions again. I'm so happy I'm not in it anymore.
  11. 5 points
    R n R...Ream' em 'n Rape' em? I mean, come on...the people on that list are suddenly awakened to all the evil of the past 40+ years? Give me a break. Try Repent 'n Restitution, for starters, sweet cheeks.
  12. 5 points
    One of them on my list is my bro-in-law....So I can tell you AT LEAST one or two on that list really haven't changed. I did mention on here a way back, a list/book was being compiled to address decades long areas of concern. I mean, seriously, anyone with any even half a sense of decency have already left and moved on and enjoying their new life of 'abundance & power' I agree whole heartedly with DWBH..the ones calling for 'change', where would they even BEGIN to address the wrongs and hurts THEY THEMSELVES inflicted on those that had sense to leave ??? maybe they could start with just once again, reading Gods' Word for enjoyment and understanding ?? maybe then, verses like this would leap off the pages at them... "therefore if you bring your gift to the altar and there remember your brother has something against you, leave your gift before the altar and go your way and first be reconciled to your brother and THEN come and offer your gift before the altar" - Jesus...Matthew 5:23,24
  13. 5 points
    Ladies and gentlemen, I'd like to report that I'm still alive and well . . . even after leaving TWI. It's been a while, but I went and got myself into debt (a mortgage) and I've started going to college. To top it all off, I sporadically attend various churches in search of a church home, BUT (this is gonna freak everyone out for sure) I don't tithe. And, you know what? Once I got over the whole idea that I was "no longer under the protection of the household" I've been able to live my life and realize that it's infinitely better without TWI. In fact, as I write this, I know for certain that I've had more than "2 drinks".
  14. 5 points
    I don't agree with a single word if this. Such a wild claim requires a big burden of proof. His theological claims are unsubstantiated, his Greek was lousy at best, and his Biblical studies were fraudulent or a century out dated, although none of that is surprising since his credentials were artificial and he didn't allow review of his work and he didn't cite his sources. He was a phony though and through.
  15. 5 points
    Greetings, ImLikeSoConfused! I would have responded to this thread sooner, but I had a heart attack on February 9th which landed me at the hospital DOA. The docs resuscitated me and I've spent the intervening time in physical and occupational therapy, without access to the internet until last Friday. One of the things I've gained from the experience is a partial appreciation of how many people really do love me, including many of my fellow posters here at GSC. There is a difference between preaching and teaching. Preaching draws the auditor's attention to something. Teaching purports to explain the nuts and bolts of how a thing works. Wierwille preached many truths that were straight out of the Bible. Otherwise, no one would have paid any attention to anything he was saying. But in his teaching, Wierwille often directly contradicted the very truth he was preaching at the time. Many people who took to heart the things Wierwille preached got the results that God's Word promises. You yourself know all too well what can happen to the people who take to heart the things Wierwille taught... delusion... being played. One of Wierwille's greatest sins was to attribute the credit for the good things happening in peoples' lives to himself and his classes rather than to God through the Lord Jesus Christ. The flip side of that same coin was to attribute peoples' failures to their lack of believing rather than to the flaws of his teaching. This is the main reason I don't recommend Wierwille's writings to anyone else. It's just too much work... confusing work at that... separating the truth from the error in PFAL, etc. If you think one of your friends or acquaintances could benefit from a truth of God's Word, then simply speak to them the truth that you know. You don't have to explain the whole Bible to them. You couldn't if you wanted to. Nobody can explain the whole Bible, and ANYONE who tells you otherwise is trying to pull a con. No legitimate scholar would make such a claim. Love, Steve
  16. 5 points
    First I'd like to thank Pawtucket and team for giving me the opportunity to share my story thank you and cheers Background Greetings all I'm a former member of twi New Zealand from the age of 4 to my exit at the age of 26.My accounts and events are from the years of 1992 to 2014.Currently living in Australia while my mother who is still an innie in NZ. My story Where it all begun was in 1992 I was 5years old and my mother had just been witnessed to by a team of two who were doing door to door.At the time twig as it was known then was 2mins up the road and I attended children's fellowship.Times were tough for me and my mother as her and my father were fighting as to why she all of sudden wanted to join this 'church' Long story short not long after my mother had taken PFAL my father and mother split and I was to stay with my mother and twi Being an only child I was around twi children who I grew up and lived with as i progressed through the years.During the years I grew up idolising Martindale and Mice@l Adams Nz country coord to this day.I cringe at this thought now im more focused on wanting ti br a better me.I had plans to enter Way Corp, go way disciple heck I wanted to take twi all over Nz! During the 90's I was able to witness alot of the purging that was going on I would see alot of people come and go and the part I would get confused at the time was the labels these people would get like 'he's possessed' she was not abundantly sharing enough she believed in the trinity this whole time blah blah.Sad part about it was I thought that I believed such lies about people who I once called uncle or aunt were now being marked and avoid at the time.Allan who I believe posts here on GSC is probably NZ twi enemy number one!he made such headway that leadership view him as a big threat know we we see why?! Allan kudos to you I stand with you brother The new millenium brought a new change for me I was just starting high school and I knew I was starting to change personally.My friends would want to hang out with me but at times I would say sorry we were running a class in our home.Me and mother were actually staying with a gung ho couple who were sold out to twi we ran up 7 classes in 1 year went witnessing almost every week.Almost on a daily basis I was reproved or should I say reamed for small issues backed up spirtually of course!As a 15 year old I was being torn down by these branch coord who were loving sweet dovey dove publicly around other 'believers' but tyrants in private.After 4 long years living with this family me and mother decided to live apart and move into our own house.We had lived with 6 families in a span of 12 years talk about being unsettled at different schools all for the sake of moving the word in that area 'oh you should move near leadership' or that area is not 'spiritually clean' As 2006 approached I was headed for the advanced class all the way in USA Ohio.In my mind at the time I thought I was headed for the land that flowed with milk and honey! I was to find not soo true according to what I have seen and heard here.As a young 18 year old it was my first time out of NZ and I was very excited to see Hq.I came back pumped up and ready to take twi in NZ to the next level A couple of years later in 2008 me and a friend did the Advanced class special 2008, boy If leadership only knew what we got up to before we wouldve been reproved big time haha.During special I also fell asleep during one of Rosalies welcome speech!JYDL had shown disapproval at next morning breakfast. The guy next to me was not impressed or room coordinator getting tired of waking us up in Founders hall poor guy! what can you do I was still adjusting to different time zones As the years progressed I moved out of home and got into the real world.I still attended fellowship saw the same people, sang same songs, gave the same message in SIT and prophecy and yes it's true all the teachings are from the collaterals.Rinse,wash and repeat.As 2011 approached I was having alot of doubts and started to wonder if my heart was in it.My teachings were often corrected right after fellowship was told your messages are the same in SIT your abs is short as they record what you give or it is given as a donation don't you want protection in your life?!The list goes on.. I found myself living in Trumans world After venturing out on my own in 2012 I really got a taste of freedom in California but not before being told this person has fellowship etc.. you should go where the 'believers' are why don't you go to HQ?Deep down I said stuff that! I want to go see some chicky babes surf sand and sun it's California baby! I met a girl and really had a great time with her and pour ed my heart she had actually shared how her mother was part of the cult children of God and how she had split from it and how her life had changed for the better.I knew I wanted that freedom too.It wasnt until 2 years later till that day finally came. .. It dawned on me that I wasn't getting any younger I was 25 and I said to myself can I continue doing something my heart wasn't into?can I still put 30 min of teachings together when I don't even believe what I'm saying!Do I want to be continually checked or am I spiritually fit as to why I wasn't at fellowship when I called/text to say I wasn't coming? did I have to scrape my last monies just so I could reach the ABS amount without being screened or questioned.Many more...these thoughts battled me until December 2013 when I decided I wanted to be free I remember waiting anxiously shaking like I was about to be executed waiting to tell my mother I wanted to leave the ministry.I remember her saying you know what the Devil is going to take you down!She was bawling her eyes out and yelling (twi programs and indoctrinates this kind of thinking) and I thought she was right as this was all I had known since a 5 year old.My mother had made the phone call on my behalf to Mice@l and he said I have the 'spirit of leviathan' and that I should go over dta syllabus and offered to pay 'a visit' in case any of you don't know dta is defearing the adversary class.I knew amongst all the fear,anxiety and stress I was not to going to participate I was sticking to my guns!After a couple of days I was in shock of what I had done.I truly believed at the time I was going to be killed because I had walked out of the 'household' It took me about a year a trip to Thailand and being out in the real world to realise hey I'm not that 'possessed or out to lunch as I have been labeled.Realising now that I was only programmed brainwashed to believe that the way was the only true place to be My biggest regret was not saying goodbye properly to all those friends and families I grew up with.There are some great people in the NZ twi.Know I did what was best for me and I can honestly say the grass is greener on the other side! !! I could share more on NZ side of things if any one would like to know more or you could private msg it is totally up to you! Oh btw the coffee in this cafe is awesome! Cheers from Straya D
  17. 5 points
    As someone who's still a Christian, I found nothing in your posts to draw my interest-which is why I found nothing worth commenting on. What I found was some link-dumping (just a link with no real commentary), and some cheerful blurbing (boy howdy, this is some great stuff!) Since this is a DISCUSSION forum, I expect to actually DISCUSS things. People who show up with just links usually are members of an ex-twi group who are posting links to their ex-twi group....and sometimes they pretend they're not a member of the group. (On an unrelated Christian board, I once ran into a drive-by post by Jeff of CES who said, in effect, "Gee, I found this website with some unusual stuff on it. What do you guys think?" with a link to his own content from the CES website. I responded immediately and called him on it. He never replied. Either it was a true drive-by and he never visited again, or he cut his losses when he realized he was caught. So, your posts. They were vague comments about someone's content on YouTube. They didn't even have the direct links to the content. So, I would have had to look them up to find out about what you WEREN'T saying about it. On message-boards, playing coy (being vague and indirect) usually backfires in either the short or long-term. I don't know WHY you posted that way. I just know that it's a formula for keeping me DISinterested.
  18. 5 points
    Like Sonny Boy Williamson said: Don't Start Me Talkin', I'll Tell Everything I Know. Warning! Link contains "The Devil's Music".
  19. 5 points
    If there were no GS then there would be one less resource for people to recover from the negative impact of the Way International. One of my relatives has a rare disease, OT - tremors. There are only a handful of people diagnosed with this disease across the world. She had great deliverance over the course of the last couple years when these folks got together and shared their stories, they even had a retreat. Hearing similar stories helped her to adjust to her disease, feel not alone, and since the two meetings she talks about them a great deal. Just seeing another human adjust to the condition and live a 'normal' life helped her so much. Like her, we who have experienced TWI also have a rare disease. I will be the first to admit I am damaged from it. The experiences there have affected aspects of my entire life into today. There aren't many people in public that can relate to me regarding this experience. it affects a lot in my life. I could ignore, that, suppress that, or admit it and heal and adjust. But admit it or not, my 'normal' life is a lot like my relative trying to adjust. To me the real heroes of The Way International experience are not the ones in lofty places, with condescending attitudes, being installed with pomp and ceremony into the highest offices of the organization that is growing less relevant every year. Not those who bury their heads in the sand, "thinking no evil" like the 3 monkey statue shows. Not those who use others to advance themselves. Not the enablers. No, the real heroes of The Way International are found on these pages. Those who tell the truth. Those who expose the lies, the control, the manipulation. Those who share real life drama about escape and adjustment. Those who say what everyone is thinking in the audience but are afraid to express to anyone - yes the STS sucks. Like every Way production. Boring, read teachings, whitewashed messages, all lies. The truth is what happens behind closed doors, where they are meeting out of fear. If you want to see a real hero from the Way experience, go look in the mirror. It's you. You survived. You told the truth. You, my friends on Greasespot, are the true heroes, not the moral midget being installed as President or any of his Pharisee buddies. Or any of the various hucksters selling versions of lies for their own profit. You are the true heroes. Even if you're damaged like me.
  20. 5 points
    Just wanted to revisit this thread.............and say again...... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Thank you, DWBH.......... For the past 18 years......i.e. Waydale/GSC........you have shown impeccable integrity towards spotlighting twit's doctrines of error, their culpability, and vehement resistance to come clean. And, to me, personally.........you've offered support, strength and kindness in every possible way. I have no words but to deeply thank you for it. At every step along the way, you've never divulged my identity or confidences....unless I provided it. IMO.....YOU are "the real deal." You stand head-and-shoulders above any of those listed in your post (below).....OR all the others in that 1985 clergy listing.......and I knew most everyone of them. Some of those men (and women)......like Dr. L0nnell J0hnson and others......exited rather quickly and moved into lives and careers that, if they'd spoken out, it would have been of great detriment to their careers,.....thus, for them, I understand. And, according to my count.....22 of these clergy have deceased. But OTHERS ........would coward away and/or used their positions to further exploit the deception for filth lucre sake and donned the mantle to lord over others. But you, DWBH.......are NOT like them. To me, you are likened unto those who heralded the days that would come.....yielding a rise unto David, a righteous Branch, and a King that would reign in the eternities. You are STILL standing tall.....still in there, giving "jeremiah-esque" warnings like thunderclap.......to the likes of Monsieur de Liar. I commend you far, far greater than my own brother-in-law who, to this day, STILL holds to wierwille-doctrine and has been instrumental for over 20 years in a top-tier role as wierwillite-clergy in a splinter group. May the Lord have mercy on those corps/clergy who have not turned from this wickedness and, thus, have blood on their hands. With most humbled thanks, skyrider
  21. 5 points
    The Pregnancy Policy What kind of board of directors legislates pregnancy policy to their employees? Forget diving into all the details......what gives them the right to insert when a couple should or shouldn't get pregnant and have children? Craig, Don and Howard all signed off on this? Doesn't this policy obliterate all kinds of issues about a woman's right over her body and conception? What about legalities? Is this even legal? [And please......don't start a legal-issues argument on this thread. Thanks.] Did this kind of thinking and policy connect all the way back to victor paul wierwille? Yep. It. Was. A. Cult. The Pet Policy On this one, the first sentence, the foundational directive..........Effective March 25, 1998, larger pets ("serious pets") such as cats, dogs, horses, reptiles and some birds will not be allowed by full-time Staff. Of course, when my wife and I read this, "Who has horses or reptiles or birds?".........but I digress.... The bigger issue, the MAIN POINT is......What gives the trustees the right to give these orders that affect our lives? Did every financial issue connect back to the needs-basis doctrine of wierwille......or what was it? NOW, it was personal. We had a dog, a rescue dog....a poodle mix. Our older son had turned 12 years old and summer was near. My wife was deeply involved in this and knew, with that deep-instinct of a mother's love, that our son needed the companionship of a young dog. Not a puppy with all its early needs, but a one-year old rescue dog from the shelter. A very dear and long-standing family corps woman, Jean G!les T0mko (mother of Paul G!les...corps grad) was like "the grandmother" that our boys never had encouraged it as well. [Note: My deprogramming episode was STILL rippling out its effects.....our two boys never really had that son/grandparent relationship.] Jean and her husband (a wonderful military veteran) through the years offered to babysit our boys several overnight weekends (Sat/Sun).....it blessed them immensely and my wife and I felt is was deeply healthy for the boys. Anyways......nine months prior to this "pet policy" my wife, son and Jean had gone to the rescue shelter and brought this dog home. Jean insisted on buying several dog items, because her heart was invested into our growing boys. She was, again, "Grandma" to our sons. When this policy went into effect, we had to get rid of this dog. My little twelve-year old son's heart was crushed and he sobbed for days while we looked to find a new home for his "little companion." Jean, too, was deeply saddened by this whole ordeal. The rippling effects of this pet policy on my family brought a deep, profound sadness to my heart.....opening the passageway to the haunting memories of my captivity, and my mom and dad. My son who had this growing desire to be a veterinarian.......floundered in this emotional turbulence of losing his little dog, Sandi. **Fast forward to leaving this cult........ into the years ahead, and now 19 years later: Our son graduated from college summa cum laude Received the chancellor award in medical school Selected as one of eighteen in nation for one year, intern yr, at sloan kettering (manhattan) Received intern of year award of those 18 Today.....a brain/spinal oncologist in top-tier cancer hospital So, readers......please indulge me as I pause..................to give a one-finger salute to the cult puppeteers, past and present.
  22. 5 points
    Skyrider Thank you very much for sharing these hardhitting personal life stories. Im ready to give my background in the next couple of days in the new member area Oh and btw Happy new year 2017 to all GSC posters
  23. 5 points
    Defining Moments in Time: I grew up on a wheat farm six miles from a small, rural town. Our farm house was small and my three brothers and I slept in the basement with concrete floors.......and the winters were bitterly cold. But life was good. My kindergarten class was in a country schoolhouse four miles northeast and grades k-8 numbered around 32 students. Yes, a country school house......and I chuckle to myself, "How old ARE you?" And, no......I didn't walk to school, barefoot. (haha) I still have a framed picture of those 32 students, with my three older brothers, from that little country schoolhouse. The next year my parents made the decision that we would start going to the public school in town, because the school bus drove right by our house each morning and studies, along with team sports, would help expand our growth. Besides the wheat farming, we had corn and alfalfa to irrigate. I was nine years old when my dad thought I was ready to drive the tractor in the field, alone. The fact of the matter was largely due to size not age; when one foot could reach the clutch and the other foot the brake, I was "ready." But hey, I didn't mind.....it made me feel needed and raised my status with my older brothers. The irrigation of the corn and alfalfa took on whole different aspects to manage. For a number of years, we had some cattle and hundreds of sheep. I learned a lot about sheep that embedded deep impressions when, years later, I delved into the scriptures. Life on the farm was a load of challenges and plenty of hard work, but it opened up whole chapters of fond memories of wholesome living. Along with school activities and team sports (football, basketball, golf and track), we were involved in 4-H and I snagged several blue/purple ribbons for my black angus heifers. As farm kids go, we had our share of B-B guns and birdshot to ward off pesky sparrows and vermin attempting to nestle into many of the outbuildings. The first weekend of November each year marked the opening season for pheasant hunting......and, for years, we had relatives who came from out-of-state to join us. Later in life, my dad and one brother spent ten years of time, effort and investment raising 1,000 pheasant and 1,000 quail chicks, each year, [and 80 acres to habitat preservation] and turned them loose in the county....all on his own dime, anonymously. Growing up, we lived 22 miles from the largest lake in the state......so there was water skiing and fishing to be had. Of course, farm work was definitely six days a week, so this wasn't like weekend after weekend. There was work to be done......and my dad started his day, every day, at 4:30am. He did not look favorably on us boys if we were still in bed after 6am......"sleeping in" [anything after 6am] was cause for a stern look. Thinking back on those memories, I recall that phrase....."Tough times make for tough men." I suppose there is some truth to it. With all our diligence and hard work, more prosperity followed......and years later, when all three brothers were off to college and beyond, I traded in my 350 Honda motorcycle for a new 900 Kawasaki [4 carburetors, 112mph in 1/4 mile]. Fast times.....and lots of high school dating. My senior year, our football team was #1 in the state in class C division football. An undefeated season. I played starting halfback on offense and defense. Life was good and fun and memorable. In the spring, I decided to go out for track....even though I'd been on the traveling golf squad my junior year. My track coach was thrilled, my golf coach shrugged. Amongst several events.....100 low-hurdles, 220 yd dash, long jump.....I found a place in the mile relay [each of the 4 guys runs a lap, 440 yards]. We broke the school record three times.....and came in 2nd in the state finals [a school record that held for 28 years]. The following year, I headed off to college......to major in business administration. I really enjoyed the marketing classes my second year, but also had this growing interest for spiritual/biblical truths.......and then, months later, a guy with a nametag who told me he was a "wow-ambassador." Two months later I took pfal.......and repeated pfal class twice more. After the spring semester ended, I dropped out of college........to go WOW. In many way, my recruitment was similar to Charlene's account in Undertow.......change the names, locations, dates......but the recruitment tactics and deceptive marketing of pfal/twi was the same. I was led to believe in "biblical research" and that by God's grace, I could walk circumspectly with that Christ-within spirit. So much of twi's ploy has a basis of truth.......but the "bait and switch" is hidden from view. Systematic and subtle indoctrination. I, too, could write a book......but it would have much of the same content, same guilt/shame/fear cult tactics, warnings from family/friends, conscious and subconscious red-flag warnings, and escaping from deceptive cult. One of the things that I've always contemplated is.......leaving twi is like jumping off a moving train. You know, at some point, that you don't want to go to that destination [an idolatrous end]. You want off.....but you also have a wife and kids in tow. Yeah, I'm ready......are you? Uh oh, the wife is not sure......now what? You can't voice your plans to jump, because others on the train will tell their supervisors....and confrontation will mount from all sides. All those inter-personal relationships.....your "friends" and co-workers, your wife's, your children (activities/friends/school)........when do you jump? Where is there a "soft landing?" Who will be hurt? How will life change? Maybe, I'll write a book entitled, "Just Jump"
  24. 5 points
    I've consulted with the mods (no I haven't). Well, with all the mods who check in regularly (which means me and pretty much no one else). The ban stays. No politics.
  25. 5 points
    My point is that the ripples of The Way's extremism are far reaching--through generations, not just those that got involved back in the 60's, 70's and 80's. How terrible to feel as though the community that shaped you would want you to be dead.