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Dr's Last Teaching - LOST for 17 Years!


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6 hours ago, Mike said:

 

The main theme here at GreaseSpot is how grads were innocently harmed by the ministry. I say we were inept and did not learn much in depth from the class. We let lots of things slip through our fingers. Dr’s very last teaching is one glaring example of this.

Give it up, Mike. It was a second rate Bible class, not some fountain of truth and wisdom. It was rife with inaccuracies. Most of us were too young to realize that, "inept", as you say. You say we didn't learn much "in depth" from the class. Well, here's what we've learned since the days of our innocence... People were raped, robbed, deprived of career opportunities, psychologically maimed,  physically disfigured and even killed as a result of their involvement. Now, you want to say they were "innocently harmed". Instead of feeling pride in your dedication to PFAL you should hang your head in shame for continuing to promote such vile dross .

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Great posts Rocky & Waysider ! Sometimes wierwille apologetics make me think of an Old Testament passage: 20 Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and

He tells them to be joyful.  Doesn't explain how.  The Word says be joyful *POOF* you are now joyful. Like when claiming verses.   Craftily disconnects the motive from the action.  . . .

Yes.   BTW, anyone who wants a quick summary of the main points of that entire transcript, it's simple. I said it before:   "Serving people is important for Christians.  Therefore, master

8 hours ago, Rocky said:

Ummm... Mike, you are blaming young, inexperienced PFLAP grads for wasting opportunities? How about if Wierwille's ministry had been of God maybe God would have given him guidance on how to help those young people build sound wisdom and insight?

 

 

2 hours ago, waysider said:

Give it up, Mike. It was a second rate Bible class, not some fountain of truth and wisdom. It was rife with inaccuracies. Most of us were too young to realize that, "inept", as you say. You say we didn't learn much "in depth" from the class. Well, here's what we've learned since the days of our innocence... People were raped, robbed, deprived of career opportunities, psychologically maimed,  physically disfigured and even killed as a result of their involvement. Now, you want to say they were "innocently harmed". Instead of feeling pride in your dedication to PFAL you should hang your head in shame for continuing to promote such vile dross .

Great posts Rocky & Waysider !

Sometimes wierwille apologetics make me think of an Old Testament passage:

20 Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter! 21 Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes, and shrewd in their own sight!                 Isaiah 5: 20, 21 ESV

 

What an insult - to fault the students for the “teacher’s” ineptness (not even considering his gross moral depravity here) . How ridiculous is that?! wierwille was supposedly a "gifted teacher" – president and founder of a biblical research and teaching ministry – but one of the few things he was really adept at was crippling the intellect of devoted followers.

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11 hours ago, Mike said:

Grace Valerie Claire

 

I’d say you made a decision based on incomplete knowledge. Please allow me to fill you in a little.  One of the main reasons I posted that is to show how inept we grads were when the ministry was growing during the 1970s and mid 1980s. That continued on through the collapsing years as this teaching was forgotten and lost.

The main theme here at GreaseSpot is how grads were innocently harmed by the ministry. I say we were inept and did not learn much in depth from the class. We let lots of things slip through our fingers. Dr’s very last teaching is one glaring example of this.

 

 

 

YIKES.......now, you blame all this on "youth" and "ineptness?"

Mike, here is what inept looks like...................The filming of pfal........and blunders

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6 hours ago, waysider said:

Give it up, Mike. It was a second rate Bible class, not some fountain of truth and wisdom. It was rife with inaccuracies. Most of us were too young to realize that, "inept", as you say. You say we didn't learn much "in depth" from the class. Well, here's what we've learned since the days of our innocence... People were raped, robbed, deprived of career opportunities, psychologically maimed,  physically disfigured and even killed as a result of their involvement. Now, you want to say they were "innocently harmed". Instead of feeling pride in your dedication to PFAL you should hang your head in shame for continuing to promote such vile dross .

Way, very well said!!!  

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Did Mike ever get around to saying what the last teaching was?

 

I just got stumped where he was using the word "instruction" interchangeably with the word "teaching" like it is the word "command"

 

 

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2 hours ago, Bolshevik said:

Did Mike ever get around to saying what the last teaching was?

 

I just got stumped where he was using the word "instruction" interchangeably with the word "teaching" like it is the word "command"

 

 

Bol, I don't think he did.  I don't give a S--t what the last teaching was about, because I am not going to listen to it.

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1 hour ago, Grace Valerie Claire said:

Bol, I don't think he did.  I don't give a S--t what the last teaching was about, because I am not going to listen to it.

We could take bets on how sizable a spin off would start over it.    IF they only knew!

Last Instructions of Cycloptic Knowledge.

or,  LICK.

The actual teaching would be known as the LICKING.  

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Grace, Mike believes Wierwille was misunderstood and bullied by denominational clergy who were jealous of him. He and Jonitham are angry st GSC for exposing errors that VPW made, both doctrinally and behavior wise. Personally, If I were Pawtuckett, I would kick them off here for being trolls.

 

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21 minutes ago, Thomas Loy Bumgarner said:

Grace, Mike believes Wierwille was misunderstood and bullied by denominational clergy who were jealous of him. He and Jonitham are angry st GSC for exposing errors that VPW made, both doctrinally and behavior wise. Personally, If I were Pawtuckett, I would kick them off here for being trolls.

 

I don't know about kicking anyone off for being a Troll, but I think a lot of DC understood VPW very, very well.  They knew he didn't know Jack about God, and never should have been allowed to be a Minister. I think many of them were right; unfortunately!!!

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On 8/19/2017 at 1:31 AM, Grace Valerie Claire said:

Mike, if others want to listen to it, that's fine.  I'm not going to waste my time listening to it.

Grace - - what are you trying to do here???  This thread was started 15 years ago, and the last post to it was 7 years ago until you decided to "stir the pot". After 30+ pages of opinion - - yours is hardly needed (these days) to add to what has already been said.  If you are so ....ed off at docvic and his teachings and the class (as many of us are) - - start your own thread and see how many pages you generate from it.  Mike has his opinion that many of us here accept as being HIS OPINION, and even though we disagree - - we respect him for his opinion.  You (on the other hand) sound like you don't, and have an ax to grind as well.

 

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27 minutes ago, dmiller said:

Grace - - what are you trying to do here???  This thread was started 15 years ago, and the last post to it was 7 years ago until you decided to "stir the pot". After 30+ pages of opinion - - yours is hardly needed (these days) to add to what has already been said.  If you are so ....ed off at docvic and his teachings and the class (as many of us are) - - start your own thread and see how many pages you generate from it.  Mike has his opinion that many of us here accept as being HIS OPINION, and even though we disagree - - we respect him for his opinion.  You (on the other hand) sound like you don't, and have an ax to grind as well.

 

Excuse me??  David, I don't have an ax to grind; F-off! 

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1 minute ago, dmiller said:

My - my - my - - Anything you say  Ms. B****.   I aim to please!!  :dance:  :beer: :dance:   

David, the same to you.  Why are you calling me a B''ch??  I think you are an Axxhole.  Now, should we call each other names, or should we try to resolve our differences??  Up to you; either way is fine with me.

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13 minutes ago, Grace Valerie Claire said:

David, the same to you.  Why are you calling me a B''ch??  I think you are an Axxhole.  Now, should we call each other names, or should we try to resolve our differences??  Up to you; either way is fine with me.

David, if you want to be a jerk, it's up to you.  I am willing to mend fences, but if you don't want to, you don't want to.  It's your call.

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8 hours ago, Bolshevik said:

Did Mike ever get around to saying what the last teaching was?

 

I just got stumped where he was using the word "instruction" interchangeably with the word "teaching" like it is the word "command"

 

 

It was vpw saying people needed to come back to pfal and the collaterals and spend more time with them. It was a freaking commercial.

 

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BTW, bumping this thread probably made Mike think (despite a hundred threads being bumped before this and others after) that people actually wanted to hear his sales pitch again.    I can understand if that made someone testy.  It's like the person in your mountain-climbing group who JUST HAS TO yodel loudly to see if stories about avalanches are true-not realizing they end up drawing an unthinking flood to the group.

Meanwhile, how about a brisk walk around the block and posting friendly, brothers, sisters and distant neighbors?

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8 minutes ago, WordWolf said:

BTW, bumping this thread probably made Mike think (despite a hundred threads being bumped before this and others after) that people actually wanted to hear his sales pitch again.    I can understand if that made someone testy.  It's like the person in your mountain-climbing group who JUST HAS TO yodel loudly to see if stories about avalanches are true-not realizing they end up drawing an unthinking flood to the group.

Meanwhile, how about a brisk walk around the block and posting friendly, brothers, sisters and distant neighbors?

 

8 minutes ago, WordWolf said:

BTW, bumping this thread probably made Mike think (despite a hundred threads being bumped before this and others after) that people actually wanted to hear his sales pitch again.    I can understand if that made someone testy.  It's like the person in your mountain-climbing group who JUST HAS TO yodel loudly to see if stories about avalanches are true-not realizing they end up drawing an unthinking flood to the group.

Meanwhile, how about a brisk walk around the block and posting friendly, brothers, sisters and distant neighbors?

WW, yes!!

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4 hours ago, Thomas Loy Bumgarner said:

Grace, Mike believes Wierwille was misunderstood and bullied by denominational clergy who were jealous of him. He and Jonitham are angry st GSC for exposing errors that VPW made, both doctrinally and behavior wise. Personally, If I were Pawtuckett, I would kick them off here for being trolls.

 

Dealing with those opinions online hardly compares to dealing with them offline.  There is some benefit, IMO.

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1 hour ago, WordWolf said:

It was vpw saying people needed to come back to pfal and the collaterals and spend more time with them. It was a freaking commercial.

 

Since it was hard to find, I thought I'd repost it.  Mike insists this was vpw's last public teaching (there's reason to dispute that), and that it's important (and most of us don't take that seriously at all.)    It was called "The Joy of Serving." Here's the transcript of "The Joy of Serving",  aka "The Joy of Serving Transcript."

(Yes, it took me a while to find it, so I'm reposting it off of "OK, Once and For All", page 7, from dmiller.)

======================================================================

The Joy of Serving Transcript

------------------------------------------------------------------------

"The Joy of Serving"

Dr. V.P. Wierwille

May 12, 1985

[song ends "I Am Resolved"]". . . will come to thee."

Thank-ya very much. Please be seated. Well it's wonderful seeing

you all again on a Sunday night. Really I appreciate your coming in

from all over the area -- and I'm sure that Reverend Chris Geer and

everybody else does. Most of you know, at least the Corps knows,

that Chris and Barbara were my aids for about five years. So, through

the years we have been very closely knit together. And, real thankful

for their ministry and their dedication.

Phil it's [Phylis?] good to see you. (laughter) You got married on

me. 's nice. (laughter) Got anything to show for it? (heavy laughter)        

[pause]

Mrs. Wierwille and I will be returning to the s-- United States tomorrow.

And so I just wanna, again, thank Chris and Barbara and all the -- st-

Corps here and staff and everybody, for -- the exquisite way they took

care of us. And how blessed I been just ta be in their presence.

[Article from The Way Magazine begins near here.]

Since this is the meeting here at this time of country coordinators --

and of course, what I'm going to say should be applicable to every born

again believer, but especially to -- our coordinators. I wanted to just

share a little bit tonight on the joy of serving. The joy of serving.

Number one, you can't serve unless you've got something to serve. So if

you are going to serve a dinner, you have to have a dinner to serve,

right? Good.

If you master the foundational class on Power for Abundant Living, and

the intermediate class plus the collateral readings that accompany them,

you have really something wonderful to serve people -- with. That twig

and twig area leader, and the country coordinators, leadership of the

Corps, of the WOWs, have to all have this joy of serving. If you

haven't got the joy of serving you missed something in the Word of God

you oughta ah-put on. Heh, heh. So, number one, you gotta have

something to serve. Number two is love.

In Ephesians, chapter five -- verse one:

Be ye therefore followers [imitators] of God, as [beloved, or]

dear children;

Number two:

And walk in love, as Christ also [loved you, is the text], and

[gave up] himself for [you] an offering and a sacrifice to God

for a sweet smelling savour.

I'll bet most of ya thought I was going ta read ya first Corinthians

thirteen. (laughter) Wouldn't hurt ya to read it sometime again --

and believe what it says. Ha-ha-ha. Then I want you to look at

first John, the epistle of first John.

Chapter three -- verse sixteen:

Hereby perceive we the love of God [and this word "love" is always

agapao, or agape], because he laid down his life for us: and we

ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.

Verse seventeen:

But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need,

and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth

the love of God in him?

Go back to Peter. Flip back a book, first Peter. Chapter two - no,

chapter one. Verse twenty two.

Seeing ye have purified your souls . . .

That's renewed mind, 'cause your soul is not purified when you're born

again. It becomes purified as you renew your mind -- according to the

Word.

purified your souls in obeying the truth [there it is,] through

the Spirit unto unfeigned ["unfeigned" is genuine] love of the

brethren, see that you love one another with a pure heart

fervently:

So first, in the joy of serving, you've gotta have something that's

joyfully to be served, heh heh, secondly love, and then thirdly service.

That's the joy and the order of it.

I'll give you the four basic scriptural things relative to service

as I know it from the greatness of the Word. Not gonna read these,

just going give 'em to ya. I'm gonna read one of 'em with ya.

Luke twenty, twenty-two and following; Luke twenty-three, sixteen

and following; John thirteen, one and following. [ Luke 20:22ff,

Luke 23:16ff, John 13:1ff ]

But the one I want to read with you is from the Gospel of Mark. Mark,

chapter ten. Verse thirty-five:

And James and John [two of the apostles], Sons of Zebedee, [came]

unto him [unto Jesus], saying, Master, we would that thou

shouldest do for us whatsoever we shall desire.

(heh, heh, heh) Sounds sort of selfish, doesn't it? (heh, heh)

And [Jesus] said unto them, What would ye that I should do

for you? They said unto him, Grant us that we may sit, one

on thy right hand, and the other on thy left hand, in thy glory.

[And] Jesus said unto them, Ye know not what ye ask: can you drink

of the cup that I drink of ? baptized with the baptism that I am

baptized with?

It's referring to his death.

Thirty-nine:

And they said unto him, We can. And Jesus said, Ye shall indeed

drink of the cup that I drink of; and with the baptism that I am

baptized with shall ye be baptized: But to sit on my right hand

and on my left hand is not mine to give; but it shall be given to

them for whom it is prepared.

Verse forty-one:

And when the ten heard it, they began to be much displeased with

James and John. [And] Jesus called them to him [all twelve], and

saith unto them, Ye know that they which are accounted to rule

over the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and their great

ones exercise authority upon them.

See the world is just opposite of the teaching of the Scriptures. They

exercise lordship over them; and then the great -eh - when he gets

higher up on the ladder, then he exercises authority over the top of

them too. That's why, so many times, we have heard that money is power.

Because money buys people, and then people become the slaves of those

who have the money. That's the world.

Verse forty-three:

But so shall it not be among you: but whosoever will be great

among you, [shall be minister -- be your minister -- means

minister to you].

See, every twig coordinator ought to know what's happening in his twig,

among his people. He ought to know his people very well so he can

minister to them. You can't help somebody if you don't know there's

a need there. So a twig coordinator really has to get close to his

people -- to know. And people are usually hesitant to really tell

ya what they need until -- you have earned their respect. And you

earn people's respect by serving them the Word of God and loving them

-- and then learning to keep your mouth shut. You just -- you just

never tell anything; you just help people.

Forgot which verse I was -- forty-three:

But so shall it not be among you: but whosoever will be great

among you, shall be your minister:

Verse forty-four:

And whosoever of you will be the chiefest [the greatest, the

toppest], shall be [doulos of all] servant of all.

Not just minister but a servant of all, a doulos, -- marked out for

just serving people.

For even [verse forty-five] the Son of man came not to be

ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a

ransom for many

And after all of my years, and our years of working with people,

I think the joy of service is exactly, in a synopsis form, what

I've given you tonight.

Number one, you have to take PFAL and master it -- Intermediate,

you gotta master it; the collateral's that go with it, you gotta

master. Then you've got something to serve people. And then you

have to do it with the love of God in the renewed mind, -- agapao.

Then your service is just not a ministering service, it is a

doulos service, where you are a marked-out slave for serving.

And I think this is what has made The Way Ministry so wonderful

all over the world, generally speaking, is that we have a lot of

the love of God in the renewed mind in manifestation among our

people and that we are serving our people. So every Twig

coordinator, Twig Area, Country, anybody that blesses people,

like anybody, even if you are not a Twig coordinator, you ought

to master this so you can help somebody in the shop or factory;

or wherever you are, so that you got answers for them. Outside

of this ministry, people, I've seen very few answers. If we

knew where there were more, we'd go get 'em! (laughter) That's

right. Heh, heh.

I think later on tonight you're gonna hear this old church hymn:

O Master, let me walk with Thee

In lowly paths of service free;

Teach me the wayward feet to stay,

And guide them in the homeward way.

Teach me Thy patience! still with Thee

In closer, dearer company,

In work that keeps faith sweet and strong,

In trust that triumphs over wrong;

In hope that sends a shining ray,

Far down the future's broad'ning way,

In peace that only Thou canst give,

With Thee, O Master, let me live.

[The Way Magazine Article ends here.]

That was my confirmation verse. Heh, heh -- hymn rather, not

verse, hymn. Revelation three-twenty was the verse.

Well, way back in March 17th this year we officially opened and

dedicated the Word Over The World Auditorium at International

Headquarters, that I'm sure a lot of your love and blessing's

involved in. And since the opening, we have been making available

the Sunday Night teaching fellowships -- Teaching Service, on

video tape, as well as audio. But because of the differences in

formats used in the United States and used here, most of you have

not yet had the opportunity to see a video version of the Sunday

Night Services. So Reverend Geer and I discussed this yesterday

and felt that you'd be blessed tonight to see the Word Over The

World Auditorium and a Sunday Night Service.

So, Reverend Geer, you do what you have to do.

[Tape ends here]

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1 hour ago, WordWolf said:

It was vpw saying people needed to come back to pfal and the collaterals and spend more time with them. It was a freaking commercial.

 

I shouldn't be surprised but I am.  But isn't that what modern TWI is?  (We need to get back to collatertals etc.)  The Cyclops himself had to start saying that too, over three decades ago?

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7 minutes ago, Bolshevik said:

I shouldn't be surprised but I am.  But isn't that what modern TWI is?  (We need to get back to collaterals etc.)  The Cyclops himself had to start saying that too, over three decades ago?

Yes.   BTW, anyone who wants a quick summary of the main points of that entire transcript, it's simple. I said it before:

 

"Serving people is important for Christians.  Therefore, master all three levels of PFAL and serve them that. There are no answers outside the Way Ministry."

(The end,)

My initial response to it was that this was the closing remarks of a man with an overinflated sense of his organization, and an underinflated sense of all Christians outside that organization.

 

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He tells them to be joyful.  Doesn't explain how.  The Word says be joyful *POOF* you are now joyful.

Like when claiming verses.  

Craftily disconnects the motive from the action.  . . .

Be joyful because I said The Word says so, mention "love" cause that'll sound good to your mind, now go sell PFAL.

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3 hours ago, WordWolf said:

Yes.   BTW, anyone who wants a quick summary of the main points of that entire transcript, it's simple. I said it before:

 

"Serving people is important for Christians.  Therefore, master all three levels of PFAL and serve them that. There are no answers outside the Way Ministry."

(The end,)

My initial response to it was that this was the closing remarks of a man with an overinflated sense of his organization, and an underinflated sense of all Christians outside that organization.

 

WW, you are sooo polite!!  I would say that VPW was full of S--t.  Just my opinion.

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5 hours ago, WordWolf said:

It was vpw saying people needed to come back to pfal and the collaterals and spend more time with them. It was a freaking commercial.

 

WW, I hated reading the collaterals; I thought they were boring.  As for the PFAL Class, I would rather have another Root Canal, than to spend a minute watching that class again.  Seriously!!:nono5:

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4 hours ago, Bolshevik said:

Dealing with those opinions online hardly compares to dealing with them offline.  There is some benefit, IMO.

Bol, my Computer skills are not that great; I don't think I would be able to deal with them off-line.  Perhaps in my case, not having good Computer Skills is a blessing for dealing with certain people here at the GSC.  

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