Over the past weeks I have seen some folks, in & out of TWI, say that our information here on GS is out of date and does not apply to the current TWI. Heck, we have heard for years that TWI has become kinder and gentler, all the "bad leaders" are gone and the "wrong doctrine" changed.
If this is so, then I personally would like to see a public from admission of this from official TWI sources. There are many people who were kicked out of TWI or driven out for reasons that may not be valid, including questioning doctrine that TWI no longer holds to or confronting leaders who have in turn been thrown out.
It's not as if I have any plans to return to TWI, but they would gain a measure of my respect for coming clean, admitting their problems and apologizing to those who they hurt.
Since I'm preoccupied with research issues, I figured I'd check the current TWI web site research page just to see whether or not they've changed their approach to the Bible and claims of "knowing how to find the accuracy of the Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic texts." IMO, what they're currently doing is the same thing VPW promoted from when I was involved back in 1970-87. I'd be curious about what the "wrong doctrines" are that they've changed...it seems to me VPW made a doctrine out of his methodology, but I could be wrong...
Over the past weeks I have seen some folks, in & out of TWI, say that our information here on GS is out of date and does not apply to the current TWI. Heck, we have heard for years that TWI has become kinder and gentler, all the "bad leaders" are gone and the "wrong doctrine" changed.
Jeremiah 13:23
Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil.
The leaders in TWI haven't changed.
But it's a nice sounding lie that they are promoting.
Changed????? within the last 6 years, (and that is recent enough for my caring) I have known two people who were asked not to come to twig anymore since their lack of believing was a drag to the fellowship. Seems one of them was unable to believe for healing of a degenerative eye disease in the 25 years or so that he had been slaving away for his local fellowship.
Local soup kitchens do more to inspire faith in God and the Lord Jesus Christ than TWI does. I will take Christian action over book learning any day. Especially when the books are based on fabrications, deceit and perjury. thump thump thump doesn't cut it for me anylonger.
It is very possible for TWI to change. . . . just like The Worldwide Church of God changed with the help of the Christian community. They would have to be willing to reach out beyond the same kind of Christ denying cults. . . . but, it really is possible. It has been done before.
It just has not happened with TWI. Same kinds of doctrine which always lead to the same unethical practices.
The apology wouldn't do me any good unless they had really repented and made the necessary changes. Otherwise. . . . it will just keep on recycling the same kind of abuse and hurt.
Over the past weeks I have seen some folks, in & out of TWI, say that our information here on GS is out of date and does not apply to the current TWI. Heck, we have heard for years that TWI has become kinder and gentler, all the "bad leaders" are gone and the "wrong doctrine" changed.
If this is so, then I personally would like to see a public from admission of this from official TWI sources. There are many people who were kicked out of TWI or driven out for reasons that may not be valid, including questioning doctrine that TWI no longer holds to or confronting leaders who have in turn been thrown out.
It's not as if I have any plans to return to TWI, but they would gain a measure of my respect for coming clean, admitting their problems and apologizing to those who they hurt.
Coming clean..?? Twi..??
Rosalie took the reins nearly 10 years ago in Apr/May 2000 when Martindale publically announced "his one-time affair" and stepped down from the big chair. Soon, he wanted to be Chief Research Geek......but was ousted by the lawyers a few months later.
Nearly 10 years of damage control....10 years of pfal-resurrection reruns.....10 years of phasing down martindale and gearing up "we taught you the word" tapes. The mark/avoid doctrine still lives, just not openly. The "kinder, gentler" ministry is a stealth approach to the same old trough.
The boring, sterile, script-read teachings stand as an ongoing testament to twi's deadness. Even if one were to argue that twi is changing it's cultish demeanor, it would be safe to say that, at best, its adopted a petrified, denominational stance of pfal-perpetuity.
Inside the hq-compound, its business as usual. Money sent in......very little seeps out. The tithe doth prosper......them.
“The Biblical research which was presented wonderfully built upon the foundation of the Word I knew, and it inspired me to enlarge my thinking as to how to apply the great truths of the Word to my life.”
What does that even mean?
Looking at it logically, devoid of emotion, it becomes apparent that the very essence of The Way's approach to the Bible is built on an erroneous understanding of II Timothy 2:15. Wierwille mistranslated, misinterpreted and misrepresented the meaning of this verse in order to promote his own agenda. How can one promote an organization as being a "research ministry" when the very "research" (II Timothy 2:15) the organization itself is built on is faulty?
That research page LINK provided above is one of the lamest things I have ever read.
It gives no indication at all of anything that they do or dont believe, any sense of doctrines that they hold or any works that they as a body carry out--things that just about every christian group provides front and center....like waysiders quote it basically says nothing at all.
That research page LINK provided above is one of the lamest things I have ever read.
It gives no indication at all of anything that they do or dont believe, any sense of doctrines that they hold or any works that they as a body carry out--things that just about every christian group provides front and center....like waysiders quote it basically says nothing at all.
are they saying they are an empty shell?
Looks like it to me
Just go to their "About Us" page and you get a much better sense. They do claim to let people believe it for themselves. . . . which to me is highly questionable . . . no persuasion tactics??
Just go to their "About Us" page and you get a much better sense. They do claim to let people believe it for themselves. . . . which to me is highly questionable . . . no persuasion tactics??
Based on what I gleaned from the overall message of that LINK, they are still quite preoccupied with subscription to a twisted rendering of II Timothy 2:15.
But, good news! If you've been wondering how to operate revelation in your own life, they have a method that can help you.
"People have not been taught how to understand things like figures of speech, Eastern customs, what revelation truly is, and the accuracy of the Word. Our ministry provides this service and direction."
Well, the top leadership is much the same. In other words, the current TWI is not much different from TWI-1 or TWI-2 or any other version. The style of management is much the same.
The separation from other people is still the same, ie, no integration with mainstream Christian groups. No discussions or joint events. Not even a debate, where TWI doctrine could be considered alongside mainstream theology. No promotion of the works of other Christian writers of the current day - just the same old same old.
So there isn't so much compulsion to do things (or so we're told). Do current "members" still feel obliged to attend SNS, traveling long distances to do so? Do people still have to tithe, or go beyond the tithe - or get chucked out?
In this, I'm mindful that CFFM, which is an offshoot of TWI, had a public debate over a couple of weeks, on the topic of the trinity. It was open for attendance to CFFM, to the mainstream church nearby, and to anyone else who wanted to attend. I'm not debating the merits or otherwise of CFFM - just saying that they are being more open about what they believe and teach, moving in a different direction. No such moves from TWI, which is as anxious as ever to hoard people (and their money) to themselves.
So even if the info at GSC is "out of date" - it applies to an out-of-date organization.
Over the past weeks I have seen some folks, in & out of TWI, say that our information here on GS is out of date and does not apply to the current TWI. Heck, we have heard for years that TWI has become kinder and gentler, all the "bad leaders" are gone and the "wrong doctrine" changed.
If this is so, then I personally would like to see a public from admission of this from official TWI sources. There are many people who were kicked out of TWI or driven out for reasons that may not be valid, including questioning doctrine that TWI no longer holds to or confronting leaders who have in turn been thrown out.
It's not as if I have any plans to return to TWI, but they would gain a measure of my respect for coming clean, admitting their problems and apologizing to those who they hurt.
IMO these folks who say this may likely be the same ones who resisted this info. when it was current and timely Oakspear.
we do have more current information coming in from folks regularly too.
I too would like a public admission and a repudiation of past practises and the ones who initiated all the mess. Until they show some accountability IMO all the claims of change is just empty rhetoric. I would expect that much from any individual who did terrible things too (as a starting point), I'm certain that expecting this from an organization is not too much to ask either.
(added in editng)
I would not understand my former splinter group unless I understood TWI.
I would not understand Barnard unless I understood Wierwille.
IMO the fruit and the root go together. All this out-of-date info still serves a VERY VITAL PURPOSE!
This all sounds so familiar to me. Remember when I ran into some "believers" in the early fall? I started a thread about it here. I keep in touch with this couple since they mean so much to hubby and I and I'm looking for a way to separate them from "their" ministry.
Everything that's been stated here about a "new" ministry seems to be substantiated by them. They even like RFR saying she is a soft spoken sweet person. Anyone who wants to can go back....no questions asked!
I can't understand this, but it's possible their lawyers suggested this to keep other lawsuits at bay? I don't believe this is coming out of the goodness of their hearts, there must be a reason....but the outward appearances are changing.
Maybe some of us should go back....infiltrate the ranks and check it out ? (aaaaakkkkkk - - gag!)
I think the saying a rose by any other name is still a rose....
oR in this case you take B.S. and rename it but it is still B.S.
I just read their web site too and what I can see is they renamed stuff... repackaged it... but in essence it is the same stuff. the same teachings the same hooks they threw out when I took the class in 1979.
they have renamed the class and shuffled some information around.. they have the same information being taught by different people instead of VP but it looks like it is the same information as when I took the class. They made a web site and have put what looks like quotes from real people who took the class but they are aren't it is just some cleverly written hype.
of course I could be wrong but the reality is if you take a lie and put a bow on it and pretend it is the truth it is still a lie.
A kinder gentler Ministry.... Don't make me puke.
oh lets all follow a kinder gentler Hitler yeah there is a good plan.
I think the saying a rose by any other name is still a rose....
oR in this case you take B.S. and rename it but it is still B.S.
I just read their web site too and what I can see is they renamed stuff... repackaged it... but in essence it is the same stuff. the same teachings the same hooks they threw out when I took the class in 1979.
-----[snip]-------------------
Hey!! please don't kill the messenger....all I did was report what I've been told! I agree with you in general, but I'm wondering it it's time for us to adjust our tactics to keep twi from indoctrinating more people and at the same time induce plenty to leave!
I think the saying a rose by any other name is still a rose....
oR in this case you take B.S. and rename it but it is still B.S.
I just read their web site too and what I can see is they renamed stuff... repackaged it... but in essence it is the same stuff. the same teachings the same hooks they threw out when I took the class in 1979.
-----[snip]-------------------
Hey!! please don't kill the messenger....all I did was report what I've been told! I agree with you in general, but I'm wondering it it's time for us to adjust our tactics to keep twi from indoctrinating more people and at the same time induce plenty to leave!
LOL I was actually thinking the same and agreeing with you... sorry I wasn't trying to be snotty.. They re packaged PFAL perhaps we need to address the repackaged program so to speak! Because I believe it is still the same product just with a new name and a new package and new shiny pictures so to speak.
Over the past weeks I have seen some folks, in & out of TWI, say that our information here on GS is out of date and does not apply to the current TWI. Heck, we have heard for years that TWI has become kinder and gentler, all the "bad leaders" are gone and the "wrong doctrine" changed.
Baloney! Polish a turd all you want. It's still a Turd.
Local soup kitchens do more to inspire faith in God and the Lord Jesus Christ than TWI does. I will take Christian action over book learning any day.
Hap - - - Absolutely!!
Material doesn't look to be changed....if there are changes it might be in attitudes.....could it be??
The ONLY feasible reason I see for any "change in attitude" would be - - - There's less money coming in (these days).
It gives no indication at all of anything that they do or dont believe, any sense of doctrines that they hold or any works
that they as a body carry out--things that just about every christian group provides front and center....
like waysiders quote it basically says nothing at all.
True. If you want REAL answers, you're free to snail-mail them under the "contact us" button!
So even if the info at GSC is "out of date" - it applies to an out-of-date organization.
IMO the fruit and the root go together. All this out-of-date info still serves a VERY VITAL PURPOSE!
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chockfull
Jeremiah 13:23 Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil. The leaders in TWI haven't changed. But it's a nice sounding
OldSkool
Some of the posts here carry "dated" information but I like it because it shows the history of that ministry. Nothing of note has changed. If anything the evil in that outfit has become more subtle bu
Watered Garden
OH! Look!
A flying pig!
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Oakspear
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penworks
Since I'm preoccupied with research issues, I figured I'd check the current TWI web site research page just to see whether or not they've changed their approach to the Bible and claims of "knowing how to find the accuracy of the Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic texts." IMO, what they're currently doing is the same thing VPW promoted from when I was involved back in 1970-87. I'd be curious about what the "wrong doctrines" are that they've changed...it seems to me VPW made a doctrine out of his methodology, but I could be wrong...
TWI Biblical Research 2010
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newlife
I scanned the website....read parts of articles, looked at the bookstore.....Looks like all of VP's works.
Funny, what can trigger your mind cause my mind got triggered by looking at this website.
Material doesn't look to be changed....if there are changes it might be in attitudes.....could it be??
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chockfull
Jeremiah 13:23
Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil.
The leaders in TWI haven't changed.
But it's a nice sounding lie that they are promoting.
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HAPe4me
when pigs fly (in a July snowstorm)
Changed????? within the last 6 years, (and that is recent enough for my caring) I have known two people who were asked not to come to twig anymore since their lack of believing was a drag to the fellowship. Seems one of them was unable to believe for healing of a degenerative eye disease in the 25 years or so that he had been slaving away for his local fellowship.
Local soup kitchens do more to inspire faith in God and the Lord Jesus Christ than TWI does. I will take Christian action over book learning any day. Especially when the books are based on fabrications, deceit and perjury. thump thump thump doesn't cut it for me anylonger.
Is there a new move to come back or something?
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geisha779
It is very possible for TWI to change. . . . just like The Worldwide Church of God changed with the help of the Christian community. They would have to be willing to reach out beyond the same kind of Christ denying cults. . . . but, it really is possible. It has been done before.
It just has not happened with TWI. Same kinds of doctrine which always lead to the same unethical practices.
The apology wouldn't do me any good unless they had really repented and made the necessary changes. Otherwise. . . . it will just keep on recycling the same kind of abuse and hurt.
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skyrider
Coming clean..?? Twi..??
Rosalie took the reins nearly 10 years ago in Apr/May 2000 when Martindale publically announced "his one-time affair" and stepped down from the big chair. Soon, he wanted to be Chief Research Geek......but was ousted by the lawyers a few months later.
Nearly 10 years of damage control....10 years of pfal-resurrection reruns.....10 years of phasing down martindale and gearing up "we taught you the word" tapes. The mark/avoid doctrine still lives, just not openly. The "kinder, gentler" ministry is a stealth approach to the same old trough.
The boring, sterile, script-read teachings stand as an ongoing testament to twi's deadness. Even if one were to argue that twi is changing it's cultish demeanor, it would be safe to say that, at best, its adopted a petrified, denominational stance of pfal-perpetuity.
Inside the hq-compound, its business as usual. Money sent in......very little seeps out. The tithe doth prosper......them.
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waysider
From THIS link:
“The Biblical research which was presented wonderfully built upon the foundation of the Word I knew, and it inspired me to enlarge my thinking as to how to apply the great truths of the Word to my life.”
What does that even mean?
Looking at it logically, devoid of emotion, it becomes apparent that the very essence of The Way's approach to the Bible is built on an erroneous understanding of II Timothy 2:15. Wierwille mistranslated, misinterpreted and misrepresented the meaning of this verse in order to promote his own agenda. How can one promote an organization as being a "research ministry" when the very "research" (II Timothy 2:15) the organization itself is built on is faulty?
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cheranne
Train Wreck!
I see the faces are differant but the teaching is still the SAME!
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mstar1
That research page LINK provided above is one of the lamest things I have ever read.
It gives no indication at all of anything that they do or dont believe, any sense of doctrines that they hold or any works that they as a body carry out--things that just about every christian group provides front and center....like waysiders quote it basically says nothing at all.
are they saying they are an empty shell?
Looks like it to me
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geisha779
Just go to their "About Us" page and you get a much better sense. They do claim to let people believe it for themselves. . . . which to me is highly questionable . . . no persuasion tactics??
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waysider
Based on what I gleaned from the overall message of that LINK, they are still quite preoccupied with subscription to a twisted rendering of II Timothy 2:15.
But, good news! If you've been wondering how to operate revelation in your own life, they have a method that can help you.
"People have not been taught how to understand things like figures of speech, Eastern customs, what revelation truly is, and the accuracy of the Word. Our ministry provides this service and direction."
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Twinky
Does what we say apply to the current TWI?
Well, the top leadership is much the same. In other words, the current TWI is not much different from TWI-1 or TWI-2 or any other version. The style of management is much the same.
The separation from other people is still the same, ie, no integration with mainstream Christian groups. No discussions or joint events. Not even a debate, where TWI doctrine could be considered alongside mainstream theology. No promotion of the works of other Christian writers of the current day - just the same old same old.
So there isn't so much compulsion to do things (or so we're told). Do current "members" still feel obliged to attend SNS, traveling long distances to do so? Do people still have to tithe, or go beyond the tithe - or get chucked out?
In this, I'm mindful that CFFM, which is an offshoot of TWI, had a public debate over a couple of weeks, on the topic of the trinity. It was open for attendance to CFFM, to the mainstream church nearby, and to anyone else who wanted to attend. I'm not debating the merits or otherwise of CFFM - just saying that they are being more open about what they believe and teach, moving in a different direction. No such moves from TWI, which is as anxious as ever to hoard people (and their money) to themselves.
So even if the info at GSC is "out of date" - it applies to an out-of-date organization.
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JeffSjo
IMO these folks who say this may likely be the same ones who resisted this info. when it was current and timely Oakspear.
we do have more current information coming in from folks regularly too.
I too would like a public admission and a repudiation of past practises and the ones who initiated all the mess. Until they show some accountability IMO all the claims of change is just empty rhetoric. I would expect that much from any individual who did terrible things too (as a starting point), I'm certain that expecting this from an organization is not too much to ask either.
(added in editng)
I would not understand my former splinter group unless I understood TWI.
I would not understand Barnard unless I understood Wierwille.
IMO the fruit and the root go together. All this out-of-date info still serves a VERY VITAL PURPOSE!
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waysider
Worth repeating.
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krys
This all sounds so familiar to me. Remember when I ran into some "believers" in the early fall? I started a thread about it here. I keep in touch with this couple since they mean so much to hubby and I and I'm looking for a way to separate them from "their" ministry.
Everything that's been stated here about a "new" ministry seems to be substantiated by them. They even like RFR saying she is a soft spoken sweet person. Anyone who wants to can go back....no questions asked!
I can't understand this, but it's possible their lawyers suggested this to keep other lawsuits at bay? I don't believe this is coming out of the goodness of their hearts, there must be a reason....but the outward appearances are changing.
Maybe some of us should go back....infiltrate the ranks and check it out ? (aaaaakkkkkk - - gag!)
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leafytwiglet
I think the saying a rose by any other name is still a rose....
oR in this case you take B.S. and rename it but it is still B.S.
I just read their web site too and what I can see is they renamed stuff... repackaged it... but in essence it is the same stuff. the same teachings the same hooks they threw out when I took the class in 1979.
they have renamed the class and shuffled some information around.. they have the same information being taught by different people instead of VP but it looks like it is the same information as when I took the class. They made a web site and have put what looks like quotes from real people who took the class but they are aren't it is just some cleverly written hype.
of course I could be wrong but the reality is if you take a lie and put a bow on it and pretend it is the truth it is still a lie.
A kinder gentler Ministry.... Don't make me puke.
oh lets all follow a kinder gentler Hitler yeah there is a good plan.
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krys
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Bolshevik
Twi and followers have been trying to reclaim what was lost in the 1970s for as long as I can remember.
Ask anyone under 30, we were there.
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Ham
what is *tt* that they exactly think they lost?
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leafytwiglet
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Bolshevik
vpw's libido.
I don't know really, I wasn't there.
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dmiller
Baloney! Polish a turd all you want. It's still a Turd.
Hap - - - Absolutely!!
The ONLY feasible reason I see for any "change in attitude" would be - - - There's less money coming in (these days).
True. If you want REAL answers, you're free to snail-mail them under the "contact us" button!
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