I was Nawed on a couple times. It wasn't the cussin that was bad but the SPIT and breath could stop a freight train. Oh. yea, he needed some dental work. He had a couple cavities on his back molars - Sudo are you listening
I can't even watch for some reason... :( It's all very disturbing to me. A minister for GOD should NOT talk like that.... I can't believe I condoned it and listened to it for so many years.
I noticed that Craiggers was really bad with that in the late 80's and early 90's but that he backed off it in the mid-90's - did someone tell him to cool it or something?
I can't answer your question, but I can back up what you said about him being so bad in the 80's and 90's. Someone who was in longer than I was told me she was too embarrassed to share the SNS tapes with new people, because his mouth was so bad.
I can't even watch for some reason... :( It's all very disturbing to me. A minister for GOD should NOT talk like that.... I can't believe I condoned it and listened to it for so many years.
My husband (who didn't know what twi was like back in the day) took one look at the video and pronounced "That must be some sort of DEVIL SPITIT."
I can't answer your question, but I can back up what you said about him being so bad in the 80's and 90's. Someone who was in longer than I was told me she was too embarrassed to share the SNS tapes with new people, because his mouth was so bad.
Yeah same here. If on the off chance I was going to bring someone new I made sure to call ahead and make sure we weren't playing a tape for fellowship.
From what I've seen, a lot of the debate on whether or not cussing or swearing is a sin all depends upon what is in someones heart when they do it. For example, you miss the nail you are hammering and end up pounding your finger instead and immediately say: G** D*** it! Is that a sin? Some people think so based on the fact that God's name or Jesus' name was invoked and the name of the Lord should never be used in that manner. Other people say no, because it wasn't pre-meditated and it was merely a slip of the tongue and you didn't intend and never meant that God or Jesus should damn anything at all.
On the other hand, when someone is cussing at someone (rather than at an inatimate object - like a board or a nail in the above example) it is commonly thought that the person doing the cussing has pre-meditated ill-will toward the individual they are swearing at and cussing out. Now I am inclined to think that could be the case, especially in situations where an existing relationship between two individuals has deterioated - like between two spouses. This becomes even more apparent when verbal abuse leads to domestic violence. Then there are people who believe that they are being verbally abused just because they feel they are being attacked simply for holding a different opinion and no violence is involved at all. Some claim that swearing (verbal abuse) is a kind of violence in and of itself, that creates a deep and emotional pain and mental anguish that can be immobilizing.
Some synonyms: ABUSE, VITUPERATION, INVECTIVE, OBLOQUY, BILLINGSGATE mean vehemently expressed condemnation or disapproval. ABUSE, the most general term, usually implies the anger of the speaker and stresses the harshness of the language abuse. VITUPERATION implies fluent and sustained abuse vituperation. INVECTIVE implies a comparable vehemence but suggests greater verbal and rhetorical skill and may apply to a public denunciation invective. OBLOQUY suggests defamation and consequent shame and disgrace, obloquy and derision. BILLINGSGATE implies practiced fluency and variety of profane or obscene abuse, e.g. "billingsgate at the cabdriver." (From: T. Ghostwolf Davidson)
There is discussion on how swearing and cussing plays upon the psyche of Children. Children abusing one another with name-calling during playtime is said to be one thing, but it is a completely different thing altogether whenever it is done by their parents or elders. Some parents and elders have set ideas about how a child should behave, and if the child does not behave that way, the parents don't explain properly but make fun of their child verbally in front of others. If such fun is made in the presence of others then the child's psyche is hurt. The hurt may look very innocent but that makes a child feel insecure about themselves. The children lose faith in their own abilities.
How is that behavior any different from preachers who don't explain things properly, who talk down and cuss at people because that "child-of-God" is not behaving according to their own set ideas? They end up playing the role of an incompetent parent - a frustrated parent unable to control their child - rather than that of a competent teacher or preacher of the gospel. (Some of them even give lessons on how to go about parenting children.) Because the child cannot hit back, it is taken for granted by many adults that children can be verbally abused without hurting them. Likewise these preachers got the same idea - that one can be verbally abused without being hurt.
Amen to what everyone said about his dirty mouth. I was embarrased to hear what he said and was especially embarrased if new people were there, which was NOT often!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I thought it was a disgrace and still do, even though some dirty words pop out of my mouth occasionally. But not in front of a group of people, much less 'believers' for goodness sake. I also apologize to anyone that I say dirty words to, as I do not think it is ladylike or a Christian example. IMHO
I can't answer your question, but I can back up what you said about him being so bad in the 80's and 90's. Someone who was in longer than I was told me she was too embarrassed to share the SNS tapes with new people, because his mouth was so bad.
Wonder if this is around the same time his vulgar ideas on Genesis 3 emerged?? It's not just lingo, IMO
I remember a special show they did in 1995 or 1996 with Way Productions. It was SNS hookup for those who weren't at HQ. They LCM on the stage and he told fat lady jokes, and was an all around pin head. Why did he think he was so funny? I did happen to take an older lady to that hookup, and she was insulted by his humor (rightfully so). I was insulted as well, but I was too waybrained to see it back then. It amazes me how much I looked over to keep myself in "the Word" and "the household". I really had blinders on. It should have been a clue back then.
BTW, remember LCM said "whited sepulchre" was a cuss word? I wonder w here he got his stuff. It was personal interpretation obviously. http://www.allwords.com/word-whited%20sepulchre.html It's rather ironic that he fits the exact description of a whited sepulchre.
The cussing, the women, the drinking, the (insert whatever vice) were all part and parcel of the idea that once you were "born again" you couldn't lose your salvation. Therefore, everything was permissable, cussing in spittle strewn diatribes became a way to show that you were secure in your "new birth" that you knew you were saved, that nothing could change that.
No, I am not of the "once saved always saved" camp, and am not seeking to debate the issue on this thread -just offereing my viewpoint as to the why of the cussing etc.
Sometimes, a little cussing is necessary to make a point, though I think it depends mostly on the particular group one is speaking to. I grew up a good Catholic boy. I knew what the various four-letter words meant, but I didn't have much need for them. I could say to my folks, "I'm depressed," and there would be all sorts of concern. At my fraternity in college, however, that wouldn't have caused an eyeblink. If I said, "P... me F...ing OFF!" on the other hand, I would have gotten some attention. The REAL challenge was going home on vacation and putting the "censorship chip" in!
I used to work in Pro Baseball. Cussin was an absolute part of the language. If you didn't cus know one had any idea of what you were talking about. However, Since I left that job my mouth is 85% cleaner however I don't have any fewer cavities
The word "swear" or "swearing" in the bible have nothing to do with using 4 letter words. One CAN be arrested for using some of those words in public, and some people will immediately tune you out if you use them, but doing so, in and of itself is not a "sin against God". I think using those words merely reveals seriousness from whomever is speaking.
Like Geo said, I could say to my folks, "I'm depressed," and there would be all sorts of concern. At my fraternity in college, however, that wouldn't have caused an eyeblink. If I said, "P... me F...ing OFF!" on the other hand, I would have gotten some attention. I think it's ironic that in the bible to swear, or forswear thyself, means to make an oath NOT meaning what you say, yet when most adults swear (use 4 letter words) they do so because they REALLY want you to know they mean what they are saying.
I noticed that Craiggers was really bad with that in the late 80's and early 90's but that he backed off it in the mid-90's - did someone tell him to cool it or something?
Yeah, he did make some prognostication that he was going to cut down on the bad language. I think he did ease it a bit, as well, at least for a while.
Y'know, at one time I thought he was "passionate for the truth" (and perhaps he was at one time) but being passionate about something (anything) and being foul-mouthed are poles apart.
If he carried on like that in a public place, he'd probably be arrested for obscenity.
Jesus Christ never used such lango, a small mind only resorts to such
Not true. Jesus called the Pharisees and the Sadducees hypocrites and whited sepulchres (Matt. 23:27). Many people against Christianity make this argument because "Jesus using those words" still constitute Jesus himself as someone using cussing and swearing. You stated Jesus Christ never used such language, so how would you go about answering their argument?
Would have to know what was considered profanity in his day. "Hypocrite" is unlikely to be considered profanity. Same with whited sepulchre. But I don't know either for a fact. I would hesitate to put it in the same category as the foul language LCM used. One is an accusation against character; the other a metaphor (or a simile. I don't have the verse handy).
Then translation is an issue as well.
I could see how someone could translate something literally and strip it of its profanity (sort of like calling someone an anus when "the original" had the word a******.
Not true. Jesus called the Pharisees and the Sadducees hypocrites and whited sepulchres (Matt. 23:27). Many people against Christianity make this argument because "Jesus using those words" still constitute Jesus himself as someone using cussing and swearing. You stated Jesus Christ never used such language, so how would you go about answering their argument?
Hypocrite and Whited Sepulchre are not even close to F words LCM used frequently. They aren't even as offensive as pillow biter or butt muncher like he use to call homosexuals. I'm not sure why you think Hypocrite and Whited Sepulchre are equivalant to cuss words.
Y'know, at one time I thought he was "passionate for the truth" (and perhaps he was at one time) but being passionate about something (anything) and being foul-mouthed are poles apart.
My take was that he considered it a mark of true spirituality.
Should have had Richard Pryor or Lenny Bruce up front. At least we would have had some entertainment along with the foul language.
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ChasUFarley
mstar1...
that was tongue-n-cheek, darlin'... think about it...
where else did you hear preachers talk like that EXCEPT in TWI?
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Out There
I was Nawed on a couple times. It wasn't the cussin that was bad but the SPIT and breath could stop a freight train. Oh. yea, he needed some dental work. He had a couple cavities on his back molars - Sudo are you listening
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Belle
I can't even watch for some reason... :( It's all very disturbing to me. A minister for GOD should NOT talk like that.... I can't believe I condoned it and listened to it for so many years.
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VeganXTC
ChasUFarley said:
I can't answer your question, but I can back up what you said about him being so bad in the 80's and 90's. Someone who was in longer than I was told me she was too embarrassed to share the SNS tapes with new people, because his mouth was so bad.
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JavaJane
My husband (who didn't know what twi was like back in the day) took one look at the video and pronounced "That must be some sort of DEVIL SPITIT."
HAHAHAHAA!
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Nato
Yeah same here. If on the off chance I was going to bring someone new I made sure to call ahead and make sure we weren't playing a tape for fellowship.
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waysider
Shock value-------Guaranteed to pique the attention of the audience.
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WordWolf
In the GSC Documents section, I read where parents said their kids learned to curse
FROM LCM.
So much for setting a good example for the church...
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What The Hey
From what I've seen, a lot of the debate on whether or not cussing or swearing is a sin all depends upon what is in someones heart when they do it. For example, you miss the nail you are hammering and end up pounding your finger instead and immediately say: G** D*** it! Is that a sin? Some people think so based on the fact that God's name or Jesus' name was invoked and the name of the Lord should never be used in that manner. Other people say no, because it wasn't pre-meditated and it was merely a slip of the tongue and you didn't intend and never meant that God or Jesus should damn anything at all.
On the other hand, when someone is cussing at someone (rather than at an inatimate object - like a board or a nail in the above example) it is commonly thought that the person doing the cussing has pre-meditated ill-will toward the individual they are swearing at and cussing out. Now I am inclined to think that could be the case, especially in situations where an existing relationship between two individuals has deterioated - like between two spouses. This becomes even more apparent when verbal abuse leads to domestic violence. Then there are people who believe that they are being verbally abused just because they feel they are being attacked simply for holding a different opinion and no violence is involved at all. Some claim that swearing (verbal abuse) is a kind of violence in and of itself, that creates a deep and emotional pain and mental anguish that can be immobilizing.
Some synonyms: ABUSE, VITUPERATION, INVECTIVE, OBLOQUY, BILLINGSGATE mean vehemently expressed condemnation or disapproval. ABUSE, the most general term, usually implies the anger of the speaker and stresses the harshness of the language abuse. VITUPERATION implies fluent and sustained abuse vituperation. INVECTIVE implies a comparable vehemence but suggests greater verbal and rhetorical skill and may apply to a public denunciation invective. OBLOQUY suggests defamation and consequent shame and disgrace, obloquy and derision. BILLINGSGATE implies practiced fluency and variety of profane or obscene abuse, e.g. "billingsgate at the cabdriver." (From: T. Ghostwolf Davidson)
There is discussion on how swearing and cussing plays upon the psyche of Children. Children abusing one another with name-calling during playtime is said to be one thing, but it is a completely different thing altogether whenever it is done by their parents or elders. Some parents and elders have set ideas about how a child should behave, and if the child does not behave that way, the parents don't explain properly but make fun of their child verbally in front of others. If such fun is made in the presence of others then the child's psyche is hurt. The hurt may look very innocent but that makes a child feel insecure about themselves. The children lose faith in their own abilities.
How is that behavior any different from preachers who don't explain things properly, who talk down and cuss at people because that "child-of-God" is not behaving according to their own set ideas? They end up playing the role of an incompetent parent - a frustrated parent unable to control their child - rather than that of a competent teacher or preacher of the gospel. (Some of them even give lessons on how to go about parenting children.) Because the child cannot hit back, it is taken for granted by many adults that children can be verbally abused without hurting them. Likewise these preachers got the same idea - that one can be verbally abused without being hurt.
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act2
Amen to what everyone said about his dirty mouth. I was embarrased to hear what he said and was especially embarrased if new people were there, which was NOT often!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I thought it was a disgrace and still do, even though some dirty words pop out of my mouth occasionally. But not in front of a group of people, much less 'believers' for goodness sake. I also apologize to anyone that I say dirty words to, as I do not think it is ladylike or a Christian example. IMHO
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cinderpelt
QUOTE(VeganXTC @ Jun 5 2007, 05:22 PM)
ChasUFarley said:
I can't answer your question, but I can back up what you said about him being so bad in the 80's and 90's. Someone who was in longer than I was told me she was too embarrassed to share the SNS tapes with new people, because his mouth was so bad.
Wonder if this is around the same time his vulgar ideas on Genesis 3 emerged?? It's not just lingo, IMO
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Nottawayfer
I remember a special show they did in 1995 or 1996 with Way Productions. It was SNS hookup for those who weren't at HQ. They LCM on the stage and he told fat lady jokes, and was an all around pin head. Why did he think he was so funny? I did happen to take an older lady to that hookup, and she was insulted by his humor (rightfully so). I was insulted as well, but I was too waybrained to see it back then. It amazes me how much I looked over to keep myself in "the Word" and "the household". I really had blinders on. It should have been a clue back then.
BTW, remember LCM said "whited sepulchre" was a cuss word? I wonder w here he got his stuff. It was personal interpretation obviously. http://www.allwords.com/word-whited%20sepulchre.html It's rather ironic that he fits the exact description of a whited sepulchre.
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templelady
The cussing, the women, the drinking, the (insert whatever vice) were all part and parcel of the idea that once you were "born again" you couldn't lose your salvation. Therefore, everything was permissable, cussing in spittle strewn diatribes became a way to show that you were secure in your "new birth" that you knew you were saved, that nothing could change that.
No, I am not of the "once saved always saved" camp, and am not seeking to debate the issue on this thread -just offereing my viewpoint as to the why of the cussing etc.
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GeorgeStGeorge
Sometimes, a little cussing is necessary to make a point, though I think it depends mostly on the particular group one is speaking to. I grew up a good Catholic boy. I knew what the various four-letter words meant, but I didn't have much need for them. I could say to my folks, "I'm depressed," and there would be all sorts of concern. At my fraternity in college, however, that wouldn't have caused an eyeblink. If I said, "P... me F...ing OFF!" on the other hand, I would have gotten some attention. The REAL challenge was going home on vacation and putting the "censorship chip" in!
George
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Danny
I would go with the devil spirit.
With all the other junk he did.
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Out There
I used to work in Pro Baseball. Cussin was an absolute part of the language. If you didn't cus know one had any idea of what you were talking about. However, Since I left that job my mouth is 85% cleaner however I don't have any fewer cavities
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johniam
The word "swear" or "swearing" in the bible have nothing to do with using 4 letter words. One CAN be arrested for using some of those words in public, and some people will immediately tune you out if you use them, but doing so, in and of itself is not a "sin against God". I think using those words merely reveals seriousness from whomever is speaking.
Like Geo said, I could say to my folks, "I'm depressed," and there would be all sorts of concern. At my fraternity in college, however, that wouldn't have caused an eyeblink. If I said, "P... me F...ing OFF!" on the other hand, I would have gotten some attention. I think it's ironic that in the bible to swear, or forswear thyself, means to make an oath NOT meaning what you say, yet when most adults swear (use 4 letter words) they do so because they REALLY want you to know they mean what they are saying.
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Twinky
Yeah, he did make some prognostication that he was going to cut down on the bad language. I think he did ease it a bit, as well, at least for a while.
Y'know, at one time I thought he was "passionate for the truth" (and perhaps he was at one time) but being passionate about something (anything) and being foul-mouthed are poles apart.
If he carried on like that in a public place, he'd probably be arrested for obscenity.
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Captain Spiritural
Jesus Christ never used such lango, a small mind only resorts to such
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What The Hey
Not true. Jesus called the Pharisees and the Sadducees hypocrites and whited sepulchres (Matt. 23:27). Many people against Christianity make this argument because "Jesus using those words" still constitute Jesus himself as someone using cussing and swearing. You stated Jesus Christ never used such language, so how would you go about answering their argument?
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Raf
Would have to know what was considered profanity in his day. "Hypocrite" is unlikely to be considered profanity. Same with whited sepulchre. But I don't know either for a fact. I would hesitate to put it in the same category as the foul language LCM used. One is an accusation against character; the other a metaphor (or a simile. I don't have the verse handy).
Then translation is an issue as well.
I could see how someone could translate something literally and strip it of its profanity (sort of like calling someone an anus when "the original" had the word a******.
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Ham
The only reason I could think of using that kind of vocabulary.. especially in a public setting.. was if that was all the audience could understand.
I'd seriously think about finding another audience.
Of course.. maybe that's all loy boy could understand. Thing is, I thought he was educated better than that, and I thought he was raised better.
Jesus generally didn't use these words toward disciples. Hypocrite, whited sepulcre- were reserved for those whom the description fit.
Not used toward the beloved.
The spittle drenched tirades that should have been reserved for the WORST, were thrown at the BEST. People who had a love for God.
Edited by Mr. HammeroniLink to comment
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Nottawayfer
Hypocrite and Whited Sepulchre are not even close to F words LCM used frequently. They aren't even as offensive as pillow biter or butt muncher like he use to call homosexuals. I'm not sure why you think Hypocrite and Whited Sepulchre are equivalant to cuss words.
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Ham
My take was that he considered it a mark of true spirituality.
Should have had Richard Pryor or Lenny Bruce up front. At least we would have had some entertainment along with the foul language.
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