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  1. 4 points
    FIFY...................... Dear Faithful Sycophants of The Cult: God has nothing to do with our scam.....but it sure is a good lead in towards deception, ain't it? On the occasion of the Seventy-fifth Anniversary of The Way International, .....soon-to-be 60th Anniversary of our plagiarist cult [December 19, 1957----according to Mrs. W's historical accounting to be exact] we could care less about you and your families. Please keep sending in your money, though. Our hearts are filled with deceit and, even though some 30 Thousand have exited since our heyday in 1984......we still like our gravy train. Because of the plagiarist efforts started by our Founding President, Vic The Man, and his wife, Dorothea......we here at headquarters live a life of ease and sordid gluttony . Men, women, and children are still being taken in by our scam......but that damn GreaseSpot Café internet site is doing significant damage to alert others. Stay off the internet and tell all at your twigs that the internet is full of devil spirits. We encourage you to keep selling our classes and programs—it is making a difference! This cult gig is the greatest! We have so much time on our hands to dilly and dally around the shopping malls and restaurants here in Ohio. Heck, we've probably eaten at nearly every new place that's hit the market in the last ten years. And, we are thinking of heading back to the Bahamas, but need to check on that since those devil hurricanes went thru there. But, if we go.......we will send you another picture. Please pray for us constantly.........the devil is nipping at our heels. Feeding at the trough and lovin' it, Rosalie Rivenbark and Donna, my BFF Jean-Yves......my underling Billy Greene.....can you believe he's still around? Johnny Rupp......he believes what we tell him
  2. 4 points
    The topic question asked what was the purpose of The Way Corps training? I was in the 2nd Corps. I'll venture this. The purpose was to indoctrinate us with Wierwille's ideology (propaganda) and have us spread it "over the world." We were unthinking puppets. There's enough on this website to fill a planet with information about how this was done. Besides the few that have spoke up here, I would like to see more "Corps trained" people speak out about the sham that Wierwille perpetrated. Hello?
  3. 4 points
    Hi folks, it's been a day or two. Does anyone know where I can read a copy of the Waydale article I wrote called Destruction of Self? Am doing some writing on the subject, and wanted to re-read this article but can no longer find it on this site. Anyhoo, I am happily working in higher education, finished my MSHE a while back at Drexel University. Research Geek is still researching and is still a (lovable) Geek. Kittencup will be at Harvard next May. Mom is still doing well and will see her 92nd birthday on Sunday, celebrated with Kittencup who shares the same birthdate. All send their best. I hope this note finds all of you well and happy! =-^._.^=-
  4. 3 points
    Thanks again.....DWBH Love it when you post!
  5. 3 points
    Thank you all so much! Wordwolf, you are so helpful! And thank you, DWBH. Finally finished what TWI kept me from achieving. Kitten plans on studying cybersecurity.
  6. 3 points
    And further........not only was it accepted as "normal" by young corps...........but most splinter group leaders are STILL singing the praises of wierwille and promoting his doctrines, methods, tactics of manipulation, etc. in their little fiefdom cults. It is clearly one thing to be manipulated and intimidated in one's youth.........BUT now that the curtain has been pulled back, it is downright REPULSIVE to see sycophant splinters herald wierwille's name as founder and "man of god." Thank you Pawtucket......for keeping the doors open here at GSC.
  7. 3 points
    What you don't see is, firstly, any genuine love for God, or for Jesus Christ; and secondly, any genuine concern for God's people. No kindness, compassion, consideration. No honest concern for the Way Corps. No concern whatsoever for the "mission field" other than getting bums on seats. (Well not bums, they wouldn't be allowed, but bottoms on seats.) Just whiny moaning and "poor-little-me-ishness", and complaints about abandoning the ministry. Shows how degraded the WC of that time had become, to accept this as "normal." (Can't speak for myself as WC then, as I didn't come along till after the Great Man was dead - we had other terrors (or terrorists) to contend with.)
  8. 3 points
    Another reference to doulos............... February 1982 "Some Corps have said to me that they never really were called to be Corps. I don't believe that. You never would have been in the Corps in the first place had not God had His hand on you. Man, you're Corps! I haven't the time to figure it all out, but I'll let God be the judge at the bema. All I know is what God has called The Way Corps to do, and what our sold-out, committed response must be." "The Way Corps is a lot bigger than just you or me. It's the accuracy and integrity of God's Word that is at stake. When any Corps start turning away from the Corps, they are turning away from the Word, the great Mystery. We are to diligently keep the unity of the spirit in the bond of peace. Your loving response to the ministry that has given you the privilege of being Corps for four years of teaching is your total commitment and service to the Word as a bond slave (doulos)." With each letter, the incessant focus on "you're corps, called to be Corps, privilege of being corps" was to ratchet pressure against those who knew it was time to get off this moving train. When one reads thru this whole letter......it's obvious that lots of people were dropping their nametags and moving on in life. How about a timeline of some facts? 5th Corps [75+] graduate in July 1977 6th Corps [320+] graduate in July 1978 1977 ROA in Sidney, OH......utilizing buildings and areas on the fair grounds 1978 ROA was moved to hq-grounds and needed lots of labor to set up tents, food pavilions Corps Week added prior to roa. Now, corps traveling long distance needed 16-18 days of "vacation time" from employer each year Add, Anniversary Weekends, WIB, Weekends in the Word......the corps were scrambling to meetings and scrambling to pay bills By 1980, 81.........corps marriages resulted in babies, babies and more babies Wierwille could have written a corps letter per month......it wouldn't have mattered. Reality of life was settling in.......with marriages and babies came MORE bills, MORE financial burdens in the short AND long term. Working menial jobs wasn't paying the bills........especially with a growing family. Since wierwille demanded corps attend corps week and roa each year.......a large portion of corps were self-employed; [painters, landscapers, window cleaners, salespersons, etc.] With each passing year, the exponential burden of family/ child-rearing was inescapable reality !! Read thru the corps letters.......and what you DON'T see? Emphasis on education, family, children, school, careers, building a family unit thru generations..... Read thru the corps letters.......and what you DO see? A driving emphasis to jump thru hoops of fire and don't complain if you got burnt, dammit.
  9. 3 points
    You can't think of other factors that affect quality of life? (and of a society? how is that measured?) You can't think of other sources of thought? You think reactions to words are completely predictable? This is "you can't go beyond what you are taught" Repackaged.
  10. 3 points
    I am a sociologist/professor/researcher and your argument is definitely "null and void." I know what the peer reviewed research and paradigms say about every major social problem. We can discuss them once you figure out how to construct a valid opinion/argument.
  11. 3 points
    LOL!! Sorry! I was just thinking that, if I was still "yoked and salted", that this would have been the 46th freaking time that I would have been "celebrating" the same sex, lies, and video tape that's been celebrated by those inbred mutants since my first in 1971! And, as I pondered these "lotsa things", I burst out laughing....hence the opening LOL. How desperately bereft of any authentic, individual identity these automatons have "trained" themselves to become. I thought, "this is the perfect combo between The Village of the Damned and The Stepford Wives". I see absolutely no way anyone would still be shoveling this horseshit after all these years unless they are brainwashed (Braindead!), or "possessed"! LOL! 75 years??? Pfffftttttttt! What is left on that garbage heap in OH, and the beautiful place built by slave labor in CO, is the stench of death, mental, psychosocial, spiritual and even physical DEATH. Oblivion. Nothingness. Not even Dark Matter! It's like an old Rube Goldberg obstacle path! Only takes one marble to start the totally predictable and destructive path to a TWIt end......."a life of quiet desperation", followed by the ultimate disappointment when they find out all their bema fairytales and champagne wishes are as phony as their arrongant, deluded, impotent brand of "Christianity". Happy Freaking Anniversary morons! Enough is enough already. Stop torturing yourselves and all those who come in contact with you Zombie Jesus Nazis! Please! LOL!
  12. 3 points
    I was told a number of times that my birth was miraculous. Thanks to The Law of Believing. However, through diligent research, careful, rational thought, quiet observation and a hard look at the facts, I've learned something that I hope is one day backed by peer-reviewed literature: Human Beings are born every f'ing day.
  13. 2 points
    It's kind of a stretch to suggest that a MOOC on Global (anything, let alone...) Diplomacy relates at all to a discussion on an obscure cult escapees' forum about the role of the Bible in societal mental health. Btw, "Unless you are satisfied being a raving maniac..." does boil down to name calling.
  14. 2 points
    total lol ASSENT Thank you for clarifying. Make a lot more sense. More ego inflating.
  15. 2 points
    Hi all! I was brought into TWI by my mother in 2nd grade (about 1992). I stopped attending fellowship as soon as I moved out to go to college in 2002 and haven’t looked back. I was part of fellowships in NC but we also spent one year in WV when I was in 5th grade. We were supposed to go out WOW the year that they canceled it and for whatever reason we (me, Mom, and sister) were placed with another couple of Way Corps people in WV for a year. In 6th/7th grade, I was sexually abused by the adult son of our fellowship coordinators. I told my mother. Rather than informing the authorities, we did what you do in TWI and handled it internally. That process means going to the fellowship leaders for counseling. Unfortunately for me, they were not unbiased. Nor did they have any kind of training to handle such a situation. In the end, it was decided that I was just as much to blame (at 12 years old) as this grown a$$ man. “We” agreed that it was wrong, would never happen again, and moved forward from there. That’s when I stopped believing in God and I’m pretty sure it’s when all of my self esteem and anxiety issues started. Throughout my teen years, I was forced to take the classes, pay for magazine subscriptions, go out “witnessing”, lead/teach fellowship, etc. I faked speaking in tongues because it was something I was supposed to know how to do. I was called out and humiliated for so many things during these crucial years, but was told that it was all done out of love. None of the other kids my age stayed with TWI, and my mom later told me that they refer to us as “the lost generation.” I guess they’ve since taken steps to ensure the younger folk stick around. I have some good memories of the ROA. Being raised by a single mom, we didn’t have many opportunities to go on vacation, so it was our one vacation per year. My parents are still very much involved with TWI and it saddens me. My mom first go involved with it back in the 70s/80s in Northern California and then sought it out again in NC when she was going through a particularly tough time in her life. I get that. I think the part that will take me the rest of my life to recover from is that my mother chose TWI over me and my well-being at the time in my life when I needed her the most. She recently turned me on to the A&E show about Scientology because she wanted me to see how ridiculous other religions are. It brought back sooo many memories about my own experiences and maddened me that she couldn’t see the parallels between Scientology and TWI. Anyway, that’s why I’m here. Sorry for the book! It’s nice to meet you all!
  16. 2 points
    Yeah, Twinky your post got me thinking about something - - not sure where this came from - - but I’ve usually been the type to say you can’t judge peoples motives…and along with that my mind went to related ideas....actually....there’s been a couple of obfuscating ideas promoted by certain individuals on Grease Spot that went along the lines of justifying wierwille’s books, classes and ministry: One, is that he had good intentions (good motives) but was often or occasionally or once-in-a-blue-moon (I’ll leave it up to Grease Spotters to decide the frequency) stymied by bouts of sinfulness. And Two, sometimes wierwille-sympathizers like to appeal by consequential-ism – saying the end justifies the means........ “Alright so wierwille plagiarized a lot of material from many different sources – but bottom line is that he put it all together to give us “The Word” like it hasn’t been known for centuries.” hey, how about a round for the best cult-leader In thinking about this what kept swirling about in my head was the three aspects of a crime that must be established before guilt can be determined in a criminal proceeding: . Motive, means and opportunity == == == == Now getting back to the # 1 obfuscating idea – wierwille had a good motive/good intentions – I checked on how motive or intent are looked upon in the law: Motive is usually used in connection with Criminal Law to explain why a person acted or refused to act in a certain way—for example, to support the prosecution's assertion that the accused committed the crime. If a person accused of murder was the beneficiary of a life insurance policy on the deceased, the prosecution might argue that greed was the motive for the killing. Proof of motive is not required in a criminal prosecution. In determining the guilt of a criminal defendant, courts are generally not concerned with why the defendant committed the alleged crime, but whether the defendant committed the crime. However, a defendant's motive is important in other stages of a criminal case, such as police investigation and sentencing. Law enforcement personnel often consider potential motives in detecting perpetrators. Judges may consider the motives of a convicted defendant at sentencing and either increase a sentence based on avaricious motives or decrease the sentence if the defendant's motives were honorable—for example, if the accused acted in defense of a family member. In criminal law, motive is distinct from intent. Criminal intent refers to the mental state of mind possessed by a defendant in committing a crime. With few exceptions the prosecution in a criminal case must prove that the defendant intended to commit the illegal act. The prosecution need not prove the defendant's motive. Nevertheless, prosecutors and defense attorneys alike may make an issue of motive in connection with the case. (the above quote from: Legal use of motive) (also see Motive defined on Wikipedia ) In the case of ex-followers versus their former cult-leader - - wierwille’s motive can be used to explain why he acted a certain way. As in the above reference that talked about the beneficiary of a life insurance policy motivated by greed to commit the murder – I think the case could easily be made for wierwille’s lust for fame, fortune, power and pleasure drove him to establish an egocentric exploitative and parasitic organization. One has only to look at all that he had gained by sexually taking advantage of select women besides capitalizing on the time, resources, money, and hard work of other committed followers. == == == == Getting to the # 2 obfuscating idea – the end justifies the means…well, at this point I think the riddle of what came first the chicken or the egg? may be solved – by merely considering what wierwille taught as “The Word”. As far as I’m concerned that chicken$hit phony theologian wierwille comes first in laying an egg that hatched into the greatest scam in way-world today! That the word of God is…(drum roll please)… wierwille – oh God !!!! Yes..Yes...Yes ....take a good long look at the end – the establishment of an egocentric exploitative and parasitic organization and an insidious theology infused with the very essence of a sexually depraved megalomaniac. The means to build all that was wierwille building a facade of respectability…fabricating phenomenal events…manipulation....coercion...deception....harassment... lying and stealing and incompetently cobbling together a grossly skewed interpretation of The Bible. You know he wanted folks to take his PFAL class just so he could get his foot in the door – once “inside you” as a mindset the treachery escalates… So in PFAL I remember him teaching from the gospels about what is the greatest sin one can commit…oh yeah, oh yeah I remember that …by sheer logic it’s breaking the greatest commandments love God and love your neighbor…and therefore if you love God and neighbor you don’t go around breaking the 10 commandments anyway… -oh yeah the word means what it says and says what it means yada yada yada…. Yeah, stick around awhile…maybe go in the way corps…then you see the other side – the double standard that hypocrites use. The Bible forbids lying and stealing but that doesn’t apply to wierwille’s rampant plagiarism. The Bible forbids adultery – but that never stopped wierwille the sexual predator. Well in the end - if what you want is an egocentric exploitative and parasitic organization and an insidious theology infused with the very essence of a sexually depraved megalomaniac (commercial ad insertion: the insidious theology can be sold separately i.e. offshoots, splinter groups, etc. ) then I agree the end justifies the means – because I know of no better way to get there then by wierwille’s means. hey how about a round for the best cult-leader
  17. 2 points
    Whether it's the WAP class, the FLAP class or the CRAP class........it doesn't matter to the cult. The class is the mesmerizing monomania to which all in the cult bestow regurgitated renown. The clichés gain a life of their own.....repeated over and over, in the cult magazine, in home fellowships and sunday teachings. The repetition drowns out one's surroundings......drudgery and monotony and misery......and captivates the collective marching of symbolic syllogisms.
  18. 2 points
    I personally do not really lay a finger of blame at those who were/ still are, involved with twi who were grass level, twig turner upper, help others get saved type of believers BUT there IS NO justification for them who were/still are in leadership positions who turned a blind eye to the insidious bs going on in that vile place. Now it seems with rnr off-shoot 'leadership' they are all about covering their own backsides as their lightbulb moment has hit them that they will not be taken care of by twit hq in their old age lol...every man and dog for themselves huh ?!
  19. 2 points
    Doncha love the "benefits of the class" - Learn how to: Get true peace in your life Know with certainty that you are going to heaven Develop a knowledge of the absolute goodness of God Know what happens when people die Enjoy reading the Bible Strengthen family relationships How to win in this life Hmm. If Jesus [who's he?] is a role model for "winning" "in this life" - the prize of crucifixion isn't one that would attract many people. Whoever said we would win in this life? Chapter and verse please! As to "Know with certainty that you are going to heaven" and "Know what happens when people die" - I know what the Bible says and what I understand and believe; but these "benefits" are still speculative. People don't come back from heaven (wherever or whatever that is) or after they've died, to tell us. We have a glorious future ahead of us - but we don't really know what it is going to be like. It will be different from this life, however, and beyond our wildest imaginings. I would say that all of the other things mentioned happen OUTSIDE TWI - and further, that any peace you have in your life now, or understanding of the goodness of God, or enjoyment in reading the Bible, and decent family relationships, will ALL BE SHATTERED BY TWI. And whoever put this poster together doesn't understand that they don't need to repeat the "how to" in the final benefit. They forgot to mention the charge, sorry donation, required for this "class series," too. Don't think I'll be in a hurry to sign up for this. (Runs away very fast.)
  20. 2 points
    That's the important thing about looking back. What happened? Why? How can (I) prevent this happening (to me) again? We will always come up against "red flags." Some we have to view with caution: proceed forward warily. Others definitely mean DO NOT PROCEED. Which is which? And how do we proceed? What do we do to stop getting into similar dangerous situations? How do we respond to red flags, now? At work? When we see something happening in our neighbourhood? In many cases, our friends and families warned us - and we didn't listen. How do we warn our own friends and families of dangerous situations that they might be wandering into? It doesn't mean being suspicious of everyone and everything. It does mean being vigilant (roaring lions bearing red flags are everywhere!). And it definitely means SPEAKING UP and "whistleblowing." Which is not easy when one is in a position of subservience to someone with power or authority, however it comes, over one's life.
  21. 2 points
    .........Wierwille exemplified the works of the flesh, not walking by the spirit. He committed adultery and sexual predation, assaulting the foundation of love as Christ loved. He lived a life of uncleanness, not uprightness of heart. Wierwille lusted after idolatry, not seeking the altar of the Living God. He stirred up strife and seditions, not comfort and exhortations. Wierwille reveled in drunkenness, not the quenching of thirst from the Fountain of Living Waters. He was a cherry-picker of selective verses, not the harvester of fruit of the spirit. Wierwille stoked the fires of his night owl-meetings to send indoctrinated corps members to replicate his craft.
  22. 2 points
    Hi all! imo, one must never lose sight of the debilitating co-morbidities and unconfronted, untreated pathologies which were an integral and dominant part of dictor paul's lifelong devolution into madness. This was never "a good man gone wrong", or a "spiritual 'breaking bad' " story. This was the predictable outworking and acting out behavior of a deeply disturbed individual. This was the inevitable progression of a sexually and psychologically abused child of a dysfunctional Prussian immigrant family (read pre-Nazi white, Aryan nationalism), in rural, agrarian Ohio, populated by a major cluster of German immigrants. This is reflected even in the local town names....Minster, New Bremen, St. Mary's, Anna, and others, amongst an equally large population of Scots-Irish Protestant "colonists" in the area. Interesting cultural and historical mix of genomes. Add to that, an increasing need for self-medication with alcohol in the teen years, and the growing paranoia and demand for approval and attention his malignant narcissism demanded, his mental "clarity" was under self-destructive assault from at least age 14. There were various misguided and/or uniformed attempts at intervention by family members, most notably older sisters Sevilla, and Lydia, and angry, punitive interventions by his guilty father, but dictor's "problems" remained unconfronted and untreated, hence predictable and inevitable from a clinical point of view, but totally hidden and disguised socially and interpersonally. Quite typically solipsistic and sociopathic. dictor paul was "outta control" in high school already, and as the substance abuse increased so did the erratic, attention-seeking behavior. He eloped with his HS sweetheart. Went through a C- academic career at a WI Evangelical and Reformed denominational college supported by the local New Knoxville congregation, was part of Lindbergh's America First "Anti-War" Movement, took his first pastorate in Payne, OH, had his first extra-marital affair with a "Christian evangelist", Rosalind Rinker, started Chimes Hour Youth Caravan, and a series of extra-marital dalliances with musical directors, personal secretaries, church secretaries, all during the move and pastorate time in Van Wert which lasted until the fall of 1957, when dic, and Harry, and Ermal, founded The Way Inc., and started work on renovating the family farm, and then the BRC. All during this time, there was no "good going bad". It was bad gojng worse! And, gaining money and members and victims yearly until the wretched death of metastatic melanoma claimed another body in May of 1985. Not a pretty story. Quite a shitty legacy. Immeasurable human suffering and horrific human carnage. No Jesus visible. No "good fruit" from the Righteous Branch. Abjectly opposed to and anti(against)-Christ. Don't be fooled by the false narrative of possible "good intentions"! The road to hell is paved with good intentions. In the twisted case of dictor paul, there were no "good intentions". There were perverted and psychotic pathologies with the accompanying depraved behaviors . There were victims, not "blessed followers". There was destruction, not deliverance. There was was brainwashing, not teaching. There was group think, not fellowship. There was normalization of Aryan Supremacist Theology, not Biblical Research. There was hubris, not Holy Spirit. There was theft, not community service. There was MLM economics, not outreach. There was control, not love. There was a cult of personality, not the truth of da woid. It was all trick, no treat. Don't be fooled again. Happy Halloween.
  23. 2 points
    I've been out of town since my post on Friday evening. Upon returning, I've seen some interesting comments in this continuing discussion. I'll try to answer as best I can, and I'll even "open up a bit"! For one thing, I noticed T-Bone apologized for having "taken us all hither and yon". Such things do tend to happen in forums such as this. But NO PROBLEM T-Bone! We LOVE your diversions at times, and pick up some "very interesting connecting slants" during the process, which are most refreshing! Nevertheless, T-Bone did say (basically) that my post caused him to return to rrobs' original post and reply to it from a different angle. And as a result, I believe we'll be making more progress now! rrobs: Upon returning though, the first thing I did was laugh to myself at some of your recent remarks to me. (We BOTH mean no harm, and I believe ALL here understand that.) Here are some of those quotes: "Right, I did not mean to start a fire-storm." [AND] "No argument, just discussion." [AND] "Sometimes I find myself in what I consider to be a discussion with someone that they considers an argument." (And that same tone seems "somewhat integrated" within your entire reply to me.) What made me laugh though, was that these remarks seemed to be in response to Rocky's having called my Friday post an ARGUMENT, and you were simply clarifying some things for me --- to reassure me that "all was well". (Bless your heart.) HOWEVER! It appears to me that you never clicked on the link he included which leads to its definition --- and assumed it was akin to "quarreling". (LMAO!!!) I beg you to simply click on that link and bone-up on the definition of "argument". Perhaps you'll laugh with me! Of a truth, I perceive that (all along) we've NOT been "bickering back and forth." Although there HAVE been "differences of opinion" among the many posts by everyone here (which are to be expected) --- all has seemed quite civil indeed! Now robbs, let me make myself quite clear: Concerning my first reply, I admit to having approached your OP from a "purely literal standpoint", as though I thought you meant everything exactly the way you worded it. And I'll also admit to having taken excess liberty along that same line (towards the extreme) to reinforce "my supposed standpoint". SO: Please forgive me for having been obtuse, and "picking" at the way you presented the OP. My intent by that was merely to encourage you toward considering what you're saying "just a bit finer" before posting, in light of how it MIGHT be perceived by others. Now (after long last), let me give a more appropriate response to your OP, reading between the lines to get at "the heart" of the matter. Yes, something SHOULD be done concerning the recent Las Vegas shootings, and the like. And yes, it sure wouldn't hurt matters to promote good will by first keeping ourselves pure (as individuals) and then "spreading the Gospel" as you propose. Everything DOES have an affect toward either good or evil. And yes, I'll admit to you that harsh words from certain people DO tend to have "some adverse affect" upon me at times, whether I like it or not (even if only in some small way) --- because I'm human. Yet, my ability to resist that continues to strengthen with each new stride I take upon the truths I glean --- not only from the Bible, but from "everywhere". (Yes..I said EVERYWHERE!) So I really DO see the heart behind your OP after all. (And I have from the start.) And yes, I do believe that "more individuals banding together" can have a greater effect upon society. And it's true we cannot negate what will eventually happen to this earth; but in the meantime we can all still "do our part" to improve society as best we can, despite all which happens to the contrary. BUT! (And this may be hard to fathom.) I would have you know that "the Word alone" (that is, teaching and sharing Scripture) is not a "cure all" by itself. Consider Waysider's remark concerning people with "chemical imbalances". Have you ever tried to have an intelligent conversation with (or even heal!) a crazy person in a mental institution? It's just not likely you'll get the results you hope for --- unless you first have "specific guidance" from God himself. Forgive me for being sarcastic, but I suppose the TWI would suggest casting out that "chemical imbalance devil spirit"; and if it didn't work...then either "the man just wasn't believing for deliverance", or the believer "just wasn't trying hard enough himself". How silly! We live in a real world --- with real-life physical problems. And many times the solutions are NOT merely spiritual, but physical. And "the fix" is a practical one, based upon things which are learned from science, physics and chemistry, etc --- ALL of which God had designed himself, long ago! The Bible itself doesn't contain detailed lectures on these professions like you would find in college textbooks. But I would have you to know that God himself endorses these things and stands behind them --- because (in the wide view) what lies behind these things are SPIRITUAL LAWS that align with the physical ones...which make them work! SO: It not only behooves us to study the Scriptures, but to also learn what we can from NATURE as well. And that includes science (etc) because those things are actually in alignment and harmony with the spiritual things which lie "behind them", from which they are derived! Here's a simple related verse: Ro 1:20 "For the invisible things [spiritual realities] of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being UNDERSTOOD by the things that are MADE, even his eternal power and Godhead..." You'd be surprised what you could learn about the Bible by simply "looking behind" the things God made. Time fails me to explain...but let me simply say that what the sun does in the physical sense for the earth is what Jesus does in the spiritual sense for the Church! (Please forgive my lack of documentation here, for it's quite vast. Maybe I'll start a Topic of my own on that, as an example of this wonderful reality.) What I'm saying rrobs is that "da Woid, da Woid, and nothing but da Woid" will just not fix things by itself. You need MORE than written words to accomplish things in this world. You also need the science, etc, which lies behind it! OK, Mel...back to reality! T-Bone offered PRACTICAL and VIABLE solutions to the problems of society, by doing what we can to stay informed as to what's happening around us (via the media...it's not ALL corrupt, ya know!) and addressing those issues with our Representatives and Congressmen to adapt our laws accordingly, which (in the case at hand, for example) will at least diminish the ability (to some extent, anyway) for people to have weapons "they just don't need" for hunting and personal protection.
  24. 2 points
    Spectrum49, I enjoyed your thoughtful post - - lot’s of good points and thanks for going back to the first post that started this thread; like Rocky I may differ on some of what you covered – which I’ll try to articulate while I also offer my two cents on the issues rrobs addressed in his thread-starter post. Needless to say your post got me to review rrobs’ again – and to have a different approach with what I have to offer now. rrobs certainly picked a hot topic, especially so soon after the Las Vegas mass shooting – and jam-packed with a cross section of complex issues. In reviewing the post – I dwelled on a number of questions: As a Christian what should be my response to the shootings? As a society what should be our response? What should be the response of our government? Does the Bible offer any practical solutions to real-world problems? I want to apologize in advance for jumping around a bit – but attempting to answer questions many thoughts run parallel…tandem…superimposed…weaving in and out of each other…running in the background then foreground…sorry but that is just the way I think when it comes to complex problem-solving where many things may have to work in concert. It probably annoys the $hit out of most folks…anyway… As far as what’s been said about the need for each person to change in order to start changing the world around them – I get that ! while I do believe my Christian faith is helping me to become a better person – I do NOT believe it makes me any better than anyone else. And to be upfront with you all – it’s probably from my 12 years of experience with a hypocritical, legalistic, pompous, manipulative, deceitful, exploitive supposedly Christian organization known as The Way International that I now am a little wary of any folks who claim they are Christian and talk a good walk and tout their faith as if it were a good housekeeping seal of approval and are dead set on sticking to their dogma. I’ve been ripped off financially, socially, emotionally, business-wise, academic-wise not only by upper leadership in TWI but even by so-called professing Christians not in TWI…I feel I need to say all that so you can understand where I’m coming from with the rest of my post. == == == == In the big picture I’m of the opinion that Romans 13 is saying in God’s sovereignty it is his prerogative to deem earthly governments as a means to manage societies. that's one interpretation of it anyway...you could argue against that viewpoint and against using that to justify any form of government and I might even back down - perhaps I'm just a wishy-washy theologian I dunno …but hey, we’re all part of a fallen race and this is all God has to work with right now...it's one of the many things we've been entrusted with - and like many things it can be used properly...or abused. Something that intrigues me about Romans 13 is that it does not specify that the authorities in power are or should be Christian. I’m cool with that (please see my previous comments ). We do not live in a theocracy – where priests or religious leaders rule in the name of God; our society is comprised of folks of various belief systems; but I believe in order for a government to work all citizens must find some common ground. I think a faith in God had something to do with the founding of our country – as seen in The Declaration of Independence: We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foudation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. I understand the common ground stated in The Declaration of Independence as being the unalienable rights and equality. I know some folks can harp on “God” being mentioned in it until they’re bonded-leather-blue in the face but I tend to think that might take away from what’s really important in that document….hint hint…it’s the people! As a noble experiment our government…our society…newscasters…social media - must keep the conversation going about mass shootings…9 in a church…26 in an elementary school…49 in a nightclub…58 at a country music festival…I’m just mentioning the more recent ones – and not to mention all the lesser known crimes / murders committed with a firearm. mass shootings in America When it comes to the prevalence of guns in our society – I think of two things: you can’t put the genie back in the bottle – but maybe by making smart wishes we can corral it. Call me old fashion but I think government should try to honor the wishes of the people. Part of the answer to stop the shootings – or realistically, to make them more difficult to commit is going to be through legislature / our government – and will mean taking on the gun lobbyists among other things besides citizens on both sides of gun-control hashing things out…for starters….besides all the good guys (and gals ) - that's you and me - being ever vigilant. I own several firearms. I have friends who are big into hunting. Throughout my career as a security technician there’s been times when I’ve been licensed to carry a firearm doing double-duty as a security officer as well. I’ve been around firearms most of my adult life. It’s no big deal to me…But a detail with the Las Vegas shooter totally mystifies me – he used several bump-stocks to enable near-fully automatic firepower. The shooter obtained that accessory legally. What is so mystifying to me is that the bump-stock is legal! bump stock - is it legal ? My question is – unless you’re military or law enforcement – what the hell do you need something that approximates a machine gun in rapid firing capacity for?!?! How did something like that get approved by the ATF? Years ago at a gun show I saw something similar – Hellfire Trigger System – and I think they’re still around - Hellfire Trigger System Obviously as a society with our government “in tow” we need to look long and hard at our existing gun laws and procedures for a citizen obtaining a firearm, ammunition, accessories, going to gun ranges, hunting, etc.…Perhaps we will need to consider a major overhaul – similar to airport security evolving since 9/11. Honestly – security and safety is inconvenient if you haven’t realized that already. Yeah there’s passages that indicate the world continues to get worse. But when I read verses like be strong in the Lord and in the power of his might (Ephesians 6:10) or endure hardships as a good soldier of Jesus Christ (II Timothy 2:3) – I’m thinking now is NOT the time to roll over and give up. We need the good guys (and gals ) to stay tough ! One final thing I wanted to mention was to counter the bad rap rrobs was giving the news media. The news media helps keep me connected to the world in a number of ways and helps me prepare for what’s ahead. Like the Equifax hack…pain in the a$$ to hear about that – but the smart thing is to take the necessary steps to thwart the bad guys – so I had my accounts at the credit bureaus frozen for $10 each….I hear about home invasions in the news…so I have a firearm handy when I’m at home (but still keep it inaccessible to any kids around) – when I’m out , my pistol is with me and my other firearms at home are locked up and hidden. You can look at the crimes and dangers on the news and let fear eat at you – or you can channel that fear into doing something smart about it...making the safety and security of you and your family a priority...get involved in your community to promote awareness and address security and safety concerns...be an involved citizen, let your elected officials know what you think - stay up on the issues and vote for change, following the dictates of your conscience....Proverbs 22:3 says, A prudent person foresees danger and takes precautions. The simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences…. NLT
  25. 2 points
    THAT is an argument. One that's worth the time to consider. (Contrast that with Spectrum49's use of the word argumentative above) I do not necessarily endorse it as my view of life or the Bible... but that's okay. But It is a legitimate presentation of a reasonable thinking process that incorporates one person's understanding of the Bible without trying to shove something down anyone's throat. It's not a regurgitation of something in an anachronistic class presented by a cult.
  26. 2 points
    Thanks WordWolf for posting the links Catcup, great editorial ! I saved it as a PDF on my Laptop in the Grease Spot Lockbox ....uhm...er....I mean Grease Spot folder...great line from your article: "you will see that when a person utilizes the techniques taught in this class, he dismantles his God-given internal warning system of intuition, conscience, and common sense. Out of fear, he refuses to consider outside opposing information." !!!! congrats to you Catcup and wish Kitten the best in cyber-security studies
  27. 2 points
    omg, the extreme paddling of young children and making them work as adults at the camps, worse than TWI's HQ, Emporia, Rome City, and Gunnison combined.
  28. 2 points
    There is nothing like reading the "ORIGINAL" ........before it's translated dozens of different ways by the splinter groups. Bwahahahahaha...................
  29. 2 points
    The best way to start a cult is actually to let someone else do it. Then when it all goes south operation-wise (see footnote #1), you can rise up and lead a revival and restoration to draw others to your new cult - so you don’t need to reinvent proven cult-tactics...just repackage them as “new and improved “. Once you’re officially the new offshoot Cult-leader remain ever vigilant and have a clear vision and goal where you want to be in five years. (See footnote 2). Footnote #1: some cults may or may not start out in the wrong direction - that is contingent upon the degree of ineffable greatness that wells up from the dark recesses of the megalomaniac’s heart of hearts - which is now the heart of the cult - and becomes infected...make that infested - in the senses realm by many despicable acts. Footnote #2: once you’ve started a cult by imitating the schmuck that inspired you - common sense will tell you there’s bound to be some dumb fvck like yourself, who’s eyeballing your illustrious position of power and glory. So plan ahead, if it takes four or five years to get a masters degree in secular shystership - get started immediately while you’re on the cult’s payroll.
  30. 2 points
    Twi's "75th Anniversary" is laced with lies....... In 1942, wierwille was already discouraged with his church pastorate work........Outreach beyond vpw's congregation So, he gathers together a few kids to sing some songs as a prelude to his teaching a radio broadcast.......whooptee do Wierwille patterned his radio teachings from Rev. Charles Fuller.......wierwille copied/plagiarized all thru his life. Old man wierwille paid for wierwille's education and degree mill doctorate.......and 1948 new car. Vpw stayed on Van Wert payroll until August 1957.......and twi "officially" started in December 1957. No originality, no vision, no risk-taking, no "founder" of anything...........all manufactured/fabricated image. The conjuring of the wierwille ghost will be heralded during twi's anniversary weekend.......count on it. The mystique of wierwille will be glorified throughout the auditorium and sounded forth on the sunday teaching tapes for all the sycophant followers to relish this manufactured marvel. They will, once again, hear of this "man of God's" life.......his relentless devotion to research and rightly divided the word of truth, the pfal class, the corps program........and how he blazed a trail of glory that, still, is beyond comprehension. I mean, heck........God had to wait for nearly 2,000 years before a man like wierwille would rise and follow in the pattern of the Great Apostle Paul. Praise be the name, wierwille. sarc/ The cult will laud his name to the rafters........for he, and he alone, set the cult in motion. But.......who's gonna ask........why, if wierwille was SO GREAT, did some 510 clergy leave twi? Why have some 3,100 corps abandoned and/or splintered away from the mother-cult? Why were the wierwille-corps letters lamenting the fact that notable leaders were abandoning ship as early as 1975? Or, why are things so pathetic and boring.....IF the spirit of the living God is 100% behind "the faithful remnant"....the "true household of God.?" Could it possibly be............that conjuring of the cult's ghost is the ONLY FORM of cohesion that the group has? The manufacturing of the wierwille-mystique gives the cult a semblance of relevance? Spiritualists and twi...........one and the same.
  31. 2 points
    "What would make any Corps person think that now they are going to go out and supposedly make 'a million' for the ministry? God never called the Corps, the leadership of our ministry, for that purpose?" Well, for one thing.......you, mr. wierwille, stated publically in 1979 that you WERE WAITING for the day when someone in the ministry would donate one million dollars to the ministry. There were no qualifiers with that public statement: why wouldn't a corps person, "trained in believing," be able to step up to the plate and do it? See......that's the dirty little secret, what you really wanted was to pigeon-hole groups of people for the cult's purposes.... ............Only corps can be the leaders, parrot the mandates, oversee the followers, and help crack the whip to run those classes. ............Only college division alumni are to be the 'business and professionals' of the cult..... ............The staff are to be in the inner sanctum, the holy and spiritual elites near the mog. These corps letters were NEVER MEANT to reach the general masses.......it exposes the ruse.
  32. 2 points
    Wierwille's last corps letter in this collection..................Spring 1982 Embedded in the middle is this........ "The 'programming' of the minds of the world has been materialistic idolatry. The world will always make you feel like you have less than you need with the many 'gods' it offers. As the minds of the leadership go, so will go the minds of the people. The temptation: settling into a comfortable job or position and a socially acceptable life-style." "What are you claiming and evidencing in your life? Having food and raiment let us be therewith content; and unalterable commitment to move the Word over the world; a need to lead; a yearning for more laborers for the harvest; the heart of the doulos, Jesus Christ." Well, the reason some of us felt like we had less than we needed.....is because we HAD LESS than we needed. We had no health insurance, no equity, no savings, no IRA-retirement accruement, jumped from menial job in one state to another menial job in another state......we were driving broken-down cars, our marriages were being strained, our kids needed attending, and we didn't know that the next leader's confrontation might just nix 15-20 years of twi-involvement. Another rambling letter dripping with a sanctimonious lecture on "one's commitment to hock his classes." And, "as the minds of the leadership go"........and......"The temptation: settling into a comfortable job or position and a socially acceptable life-style".................MEANING, many of his lieutenants / corps leaders were ABANDONING WIERWILLE AND HIS CULT LIFESTYLE and getting a real job. Gawd........it all seems so surreal, knowing that wierwille had the soft, comfortable chair throughout life and stayed on Van Wert church payroll all during his 6-month India itinerary and until August 1957. And, if he wanted to claim martyrdom of his eye......well, that was his own damn fault. He plowed ahead with intense lighting and refused technical advise. IN MY OPINION.........This thread is in the top 5 of exposing wierwille and his cult tactics. These letters show wierwille's deceptive tactics and shenanigans to keep lock-box secrets in place as his "ministry" was crumbling around him 1976-1982. He uses manipulation to try and get corps to feel guilty that "they are abandoning him and not keeping their vow".......letter after letter, one can see how he uses corps, against their better judgment, to sell his soap. This thread should be pinned.
  33. 2 points
    The list is long.........of those trying to revive the twit-corpse. Let me define "twit-corpse".........imo, it is the semblance of wierwille's pseudo-Christianity with home-based fellowships, class-structure and pyramid hierarchy wherein all tithes and offerings are funneled to one location. The mystique of wierwille is revered in an honorary position right up there with the Apostle Paul, ie. "the 20th Century Man of God." It matters NOT that splinter groups have disconnected from the central-cult........they are STILL trying to "revive and restore" the nostalgia remnant of their spiritual relevance in life. Many of these leaders in splinter cults are deceivers, frauds, hucksters and opportunists. They are hirelings who have self-serving motives and interests. To them, they've simply hooked their wagon to the wierwille name and clichés, because they know it swathes the greatest number of loyal followers. It matters not that wierwille was a drunkard, sexual predator and bully.......... didn't wierwille teach in pfal that critics would focus on the man, and even the ties he wore? /sarc Chris Geer was given the most vaunted platform to revive the twit-corpse. The then-trustees, Craig, Don and Howard, allowed Geer to stand on the main stage at Corps Week 1986 and read his poop paper........declaring that 90% of USA corps were "off the word." The Way International needed revival and restoration.........see?? Right. There. In. Plain. Sight. Leaders and corps, even the trustees.......NEED TO STRIVE to "get back to the word." Of course, Geer hopped on the next plane and headed back across the Atlantic........never clarifying the ambiguity of his bloated pontifications and pronouncements. Sure, it was 90%........not 91%. Bullschit. Soon, John Lynn and others had their version of how to revive and restore. What needed reviving? What needed restoring? Hearts? Attitudes? Behavior? Doctrine? Practice? Why did walter c. dismiss the paper on adultery as "new research?" New Research??? So, add walter and johnnie to the geer camp to revive and restore.... Keep it generic. Keep it ambiguous. Keep control of the masses. Region men had the greatest access to loyal followers.......and take full advantage of it. Doug Seed. Vince Finnegan. Steve Sann. Others. Keep soft-pedaling the wierwille clichés and classes........baby steps........as they keep distancing themselves from the mother-cult. Slick. Deceptive. Calculating. Years later, John Shroyer deems it necessary to revive and restore "the good, old days of The Way International".......you know, those feel-good-about-your-spiritual-self-days. Soft spoken and compassion helps to win over scores of others........and CFF, at Troy, Ohio, just down the road from the twit-cult starts a-cooking the brew. Heck, even a couple wierwille kids see their calling in this new revival movement. Fast forward................May 2017. After eight months of deliberation, the Revival and Restoration Group have their Q&A Meeting. With Bob and Dottie Moynihan, Michael Fort, the Horneys and Sheltons to spearhead this dissent........are they trying to resuscitate The Way International Cult? Are they trying to affix Victor Paul Wierwille as the arbiter of truth? Were they trying to underscore that Rivenbark was a micro-manager.............and give wierwille a pass on all this? Gawd, these guys are SO LAME and DISILLUSIONED. Just heard..................that Tom Kn-upp went down to meet/teach at an R&R group and is now, on twi's shun-list [note: twit-cult is making EVERY EFFORT to avoid using mark/avoid tactic and label in the public domain. Probably, has legal backlash.....]. Wowsers.........30 years of trying to revive the twit-corpse and that's the thanks he gets. Back-stabbers...... 30 freakin' years.....................
  34. 2 points
    5 days later.......wierwille sends ANOTHER corps letter.........January 2, 1982 "My Dear Way Corps: .......<snip>......[2nd paragraph]......"It always hurts when any believer "leaves" the household, YET the Word still says, 'Therefore seeing we have this ministry [we've got it!] , as we have received mercy [God's withholding merited judgment], we faint not.' ' It is ours. We do not deserve it, but we've got it. God committed it to us, so we are responsible to God; therefore, we are obligated to commit ourselves to it. There is a great and final day of reward throughout all eternity on the threshold. When the Corps has a fuller understanding of rewards, they will stay in fellowship. Speaking in tongues is a constant reminder of eternal rewards." ANOTHER corps letter about people leaving twi.......... And.....this little doozie, "When the Corps has a fuller understanding of rewards, they will stay in fellowship." Yeah, wierhole........like YOU were (cough, cough) IN FELLOWSHIP amassing all those eternal rewards.
  35. 2 points
    December 28, 1981............[You do not have permission to add comments] BUT......here at GreaseSpot Café, I do......................................... "Dear Way Corps: (I have difficulty knowing to whom to send and address this letter. Read it and see if you are the one.) Perhaps other people feel the same way I do but there are sure times when I ask myself the question WHY? Why do people whom you love and whom you want to help so much, and have helped so much in the past, continue to hurt you unknowingly or even unwillingly? You wonder why you continue to bleed your heart out for them. You wonder why one continues after over 40 years, to get up in the morning at 4 or 5 o'clock and go to work just to bless people. Yes, one just wonders "why?" But, then somehow or other I think of my life and what God has wrought for me personally and in me, and I just keep going on and on." How about looking at it this way............ Mr. Wierwille: (I have no difficulty knowing why I left your cult and sounding the alarm with others here at GSC.) Perhaps other people don't feel the same way I do, but now after more fully discovering your depravity of sin, lusts and sexual predation on so many innocent young corps girls, I find myself shaking my head and saying, "How sick and perverted was he?" Why does an ordained man ravage the flock of which he, hypocritically, deems to protect? Why does he plagiarize and steal from sources constantly rather than turn to God and His divine love, mercy and inspiration? And, I wonder why did all of his enablers.....Howard Allen, Don Wierwille, Chris Geer, Craig Martindale, Johnnie Townsend (and lots of others) and seductress women in his stable..... continued to succumb to this demented and destructive circle of evil. Yet, here at GSC.......we've connected the dots these past 17 years and continue to sound the alarm for others. And, even to this day.....the lies and plagiarist doctrine in twi and its splinter groups needs a counterpoint. So, it encourages many of us to keep going on and on."
  36. 2 points
    rrobs You might find a more receptive audience if you had more to offer than a rehashed version of PFAL 101. We all heard this stuff, over and over, too many times to possibly count. My advise? Read a book or two... get a hobby... volunteer at a local charity...Just do SOMETHING other than trying to make PFAL work. Because, quite frankly, it doesn't.
  37. 2 points
    What I said, rrobs, was this: So again, what, in practical terms, are you doing, rrobs? In what way is the quality of your life and thus the quality of life of your society [community] effecting social change in your community? Is it working? How has your community improved? Show us your faith, by its outworking. By what you do. You chose to quote a part of my own post. But I quoted you (that's what you repeated) and then I asked you the above question. Do please answer. And DO NOT ascribe to me your take on anything other than the written word. Most Christians use the written word as the basis for getting out there and DOING something for their society. I don't care for fancy phrases. I do care for living the way Jesus Christ has modelled, taught, lived.
  38. 2 points
    This is pretty much an updated repackaging of the challenge VPW put forth in PFAL, along with sprinklings from a half dozen or so various other teachings. ..."Put away all your secular materials for 3 months." (paraphrased a bit) It's just repackaged PFAL dogma. And that's fine, as long as you're willing to subject it to scrutiny in the doctrinal forum.
  39. 2 points
    There is SO much in your post that you claim without either proving or even supporting logically. I agree that this is a discussion fitting for the doctrinal forum, but this IS the Open Forum where anything (except for politics) is allowable. I also suspect that your thread title is misleading, suggesting the topic would be political. To reiterate, my biggest concern (not a matter of whether or not this discussion should be allowed) is that you state several things that you expect the reader to accept at face value just because you say so. That makes your arguments weak and ultimately unsound and invalid. I don't buy them.
  40. 2 points
    Hi, Tom My point wasn't really a reference to intent. Before the internet, a large part of proving someone had stolen your music was being able to show they had been exposed to it at some point. Such is the case with Led Zeppelin using Taurus as a partial framework for Stairway to Heaven. They toured together and shared the same stage. Zep may have even heard Spirit experiment with various paramutations. So, there's the exposure element for you. Same with Eric Carmen. He undoubtably had extensive exposure to Rachmaninoff material. Wierewille clearly had access and exposure to the works he pilfered. They weren't "previously unknown truths" as he led people to believe. This is where intent to deceive enters the picture. Yes, the problem with authenticity of what was once regaled as sacred is certainly a valid area of interest and quite worthy of exploration. I think what we're talking about here, though, is something of a more basic, fundamental nature...Wierwille actively made a deliberate effort to misrepresent his work and conceal that fact in order to facilitate his own, self-centered interests.
  41. 2 points
    Clearly the largest blunder was filming one man's doxa and selling it as episteme.
  42. 2 points
    LOL! Zombie Jesus Nazis! This really inspires the real theme for the 75th anniversary: Season 76 New episodes available at The Way
  43. 2 points
    Evidence..........that wierwille's corps leaders were bailing in 1976, 1977, 1978, etc..... All those wierwille-apologists who attend splinter groups OR plaster things on Facebook are cult-sycophants. Wierwille's letters, over and over, were lamenting the reality THAT CORPS LEADERS WERE LEAVING TWI.......year after year. The only reason that this is NOT wide-spread news is wierwille instigated a cover-up......trying to put it in "lockbox territory." How damn convenient!! When wierwille could NO longer contain the hemorrhaging, he resorted to his "corps letters." The last card in his hand was........"woe is me, that my corps leaders are deserting me".........ugh. A con-artist to the end.
  44. 2 points
    I would be surprised that anyone goes to that site other than hard core heavily indoctrinated Wierwillites or persons that are interested in maintaining and/or rebuilding old but familiar social structures that have shown themselves to be inherently dysfunctional and are as destructive as they are beneficial-- probably more so. During the 'times of disruption and breakthrough' when the old regime fell, I found it remarkably refreshing as posts often had a thousand or more responses.Free spokenness, openness and heartfelt honesty briefly but wonderfully replaced the nostalgia/old photos site of years past. Unfortunately that brief moment of sunlight was shortlived as a return to the often overly heavy handed, extremely dogmatic, openly hostile and harassing way style of personality one up manship in the guise of (an extremely thin) christian veneer was quick to follow, demolishing the spirit that had made it seem alive. As it was in the way back when, despite the many protestations and self justifications to the contrary it is still primarily a personality cult with a christian veneer imo The names have changed, the circumstances, times and methods have changed but it is still basically the same old song and dance --the not so underlying doctrine of the site is My Way or the highway
  45. 2 points
    The reason it was horrible is because I was an adolescent who was forced. Forced to utter tongues among adults and peers my age. All publicly. Forced into a "performance". There's no current disbelief in the power of tongues I just don't believe the method of coercion was suitable for adolescents and should come naturally and bit by coercion of any means. You may have been an adult and this may have come naturally but got adolescents it was inappropriate. Judgement and condemnation for not uttering immediately ensued.
  46. 2 points
    Hi Greasespotters! i wrote to Boob MoneyHands back in May, asking some of the same 16 questions I submitted for them to answer at their new cult kickoff rally in early May. They never even answered one at their rally. I also included some poignant questions about the suicides, rapes, domestic violence, and child abuse they knew about and willfully and purposely covered up to protect dictor Paul, and Da Forehead, and THEMSELVES! surprisingly, I received a terse response, finally, to both of my letters, from Boob himself. Here it is in it's entirety: "Hi Ralph." That's it. LOL. He always has been a little whiny chickenshit since the day he pulled into NY to help dictor paul throw out Heefner and steal the entire SEPARATE CORPORATION of The Way East from the Christians who built it, and sucked it into wierwille's black hole cult. Asslickers since ECU. Boob officiated at my first wedding in July, 1973, 2 weeks before I left for OH and the 4th corpse. I heard from Boob once more after his overly loving and lengthy response to my previous e-mails. It was in July. He wished me a happy 44th wedding anniversary, knowing I've been divorced since 2001. Those whited sepulchers and their "minus-trays" are sure reviving and restoring the same old spiteful, vengeful, perverted , Nazi gospel their faddah-in-Da-woid gave his life for. They sure are "salted", and will soon be roasted. LOL! Anyone who buys one ounce of the bullshit this collection of white trailer trash Nazi clones of dictor paul wierwille are pushing, should really obtain professional psychiatric help immediately. For your own safety and financial future. Those are a lot of "gift ministers" you are gonna have to fully support and loyally follow in order to "restore and revive" their bank accounts and "gifts" income. After all, retirement time is near and, like hundreds of others through the years, TWIt always liked to dump retirees to keep moving Da woid without all that dead weight of keeping their promises to "always take care of" their faithful corpse and staff. Just another lie to justify their love of money and total disregard for the teachings and example of The Lord Jesus Christ, who remains chronically absent from anything and everything these liars and charlatans think or do. They remain the plague on humanity they have always been, and continue to spread the anti(against)-Christ horseshit they delude themselves into thinking is "da rightly divided woid in da love of gawd in the renewed mind in manifestation". What a crock of ages! Mark and avoid these asswipes! They're waybrained, self-serving, lying, thieving hypocrites, adulterers and adulteresses, cover-up artists, false teachers, fake "counsellors", sexual abusers and predators, and have the blood of saints on their consciences. They are most miserable among "men". Their "bema" will be a long line of "I never knew yous"! Truly a sad joke and wasted time, air, and space. I pity the fools...........selah, and............peace.
  47. 2 points
    Deceived and deceiving others........ Wierwille NEVER had that connection. As a plagiarist and false teacher, he feigned words of spiritual grandeur to make merchandise of others. In his lust and covetousness, wierwille will receive judgment and rebuke from the Lord..............others who copy this degradation, will receive likewise.
  48. 1 point
    Perhaps, I should state this more clearly......... The disaster was wierwille...............his "works of the flesh" in strife, striker, drunkard, predator, etc. were hiding in the shadows.
  49. 1 point
  50. 1 point
    Wasn't Pressed Down considered "pozzest" and their music banned? It was great music too. I recall we didn't understand what had happened and few destroyed (as instructed) their copies of cassettes. In fact, bootleg copies were made, of which I have or had one .
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