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  1. 7 points
    After reading so many historical timelines of the way international here on GSC, and being an eyewitness to many of the changes implemented during/after the Allen lawsuit, it all comes down to one perpetual whitewash. The way international is a whited sepulcher. It all makes perfect sense to me now, especially when I consider the past that the way international does not want revealed in any capacity - unless of course its the approved version they teach the in-res corps through Ms Wierwille's incomplete biography of vpw, etc. But let's not forget the approved versions of the many nostalgic character traits vpw supposedly demonstrated as the man of god for our day and time. I was 32nd way corps, graduated in 2003. From 1996 - 2003 I spent my time immersed in all things the way international. Lived with my fellowship coordinators, moved with them, as they became candidate corps, went way disciple as they did - only in a different state. Was an assistant fellowship coordinator the remaining six months after my first way disciple year. Started my candidate year as a fellowship coordinator then went way disciple my apprentice year and was assigned to HQ. Spent two years in residence only to be assigned as assistant department coordinator at hq upon graduation from the corps. Became department coordinator within two years. Within a year as department coordinator was asked to be on the presidunce cabinet. Two years later I made my exit in 2008. Starting in 96 I was blown away by martindale's teachings, classes, etc. In my youthful zeal I choose blinders that suited my comfort level. Martindale was the man of God in my mind. I was told by my fellowship coordinators (who had been dropped from the way corps and been around damn near 30 years and were going corps a second time) of some of the history, fog years, the importance of the present truth, why the past was so bad - the adversary uses it, the importance of staying lock step with hq/Martindale, etc. During that time I witnessed the debt policy implemented, the no gift policy, learned of the no pregnancy BS, kept a tight schedule that my fellowship coordinator approved and oversaw. I was the perfect cult leader in training. I was so gung ho that when craig had us dial in on the phone hookup and admitted to a one time consensual affair with Mrs. All3n that I knew it must be the devil trying to take out my MOGFODAT. But during this time of supposed one time consensual affairs.......my exposure to dissension within the ranks from my branch/limb coordinators at the time began in full. But I was still lock step sold out to twi and craiggers.....aaaaaaannnnnd then I was assigned to hq for my second tenure as way disciple and my apprentice year. During this time I began adjusting my blinders to allow more light to shine. - 1999 - A couple months after I arrived at hq craig was asked to leave. My cabinet guy informed us that a major impediment had been removed. - Shortly after craig's departure dissenting top leadership (S@iler, Pannasmello, et al.) were rounded up, told to move into founders hall for monitoring and then either quit or were fired if they didn't get in line with Rosie the riveter. - Afterwards, hq staff were informed via their pres. cabinet that the board of dummies had invited two cult experts to hq and instructed hq staff to answer any questions honestly while going about our wayfer lives as normal. - During this same time frame so many changes were ushered into staff's and way corps' routines. Examples follow (but are not limited to): the pregnancy policy abolished, staff moved from need basis pay scale to salary based on an hourly basis (aka start of 46 hour hour cap with ot approved by presidents cabinet up to 52 hours and more hours than 52 approved by BOD,) Coerced volunteer time was now separate by cabinet area and coerced with department coordinators signing up those that didn't volunteer), staff personal schedules were no longer required to be turned in for approval, two by two travel was no longer mandated but encouraged, bod were forced to implement a harassment policy into the staff hand book as a system of redress for hq as well as staffers, STS attendance was now supposedly voluntary but checklists were still gathered by department every Monday morning, the noon meal was no longer mandatory, etc. - All of this gave the impression that rosalie was our great deliverer. Us plebe staffers had no idea that behind rosalie were lawyers hired by TWI to diffuse lawsuit ammo and whitewash the cult yet again from craigs lunacy. Whitewashed it so far and thorough that teaching responsibilities were decentralized from the president of TWI to many chosen folks. That way there was no charismatic leader to point the finger at. Wax on, wax off. - It was during this time that I was transferred out of my department and onto a large project to repair the main electrical loop that had fried from neglect. I found myself a fly on the wall to so many long time staffers and way corps that kept telling the same stories about craig and vpw. Abuse, adultery, large scale involvement of way corps to procure and hide that vpw and craig were serial sexual predators who preyed on any woman they found vulnerable. Personal misuse of ABS by board of trustees/directors over the years. Heck, this was such a big deal that even rosalie had to pay TWI to have grounds cut her grass at foxhaven lest she be found guilty of private inurement which would risk TWI losing its 501c3 status. The list could continue. Needless to say that my blinders were just about off at this point. - It was during this time that rosalie announced that twi had settled the lawsuit with the Allens. This announcement was during lunch in the OSC so all staff were present. Most people were in a daze filled with relief that the adversary no longer could seek to destroy TWI through this lawsuit. There were handfuls of people that simply sat there with a blank stare and I was one of them. I sat there and thought WTF does rosie mean she settled a RICO case (and other charges) that had been levelled against TWI? Settled, that's a payoff to keep it out of court, right? Guess my critical thinking skills were developing in their infancy at this juncture. Ok, after leaving HQ to go in-residence at camp gunnison this is where I started to learn some very startling truths. It was during this time I learned that rosie had two known lesbians living in her basement at foxhaven. Frankly, I coulda cared less about it except twi was so extremely anti-homosexual. I also took time to peruse through old corps night tapes of LCM. Rosalie hadnt had the chance to purge the study hall library at gunnison late 2001. So I heard first hand so many tapes where he defamed standing way corps, et al., went on cursing tirades against the IRS, etc, and was just a complete hateful a$$. Definately not words a true minister would impart. She purged it all before I graduated. Next I dove into university of life. I devoured tape after tape, but it was VPs Roman teachings that I was enthralled with. I was told by one of my corps brothers at the time to read Just and The Justifier by Charles H. Welsch - a student of E.W. Bullinger. I was shocked that the content of the Roman teachings were straight outta Welsch's work, yet no credit was given. VPW took all the credit for the teachings....period! Naturally, this started to open my eyes to the issues TWI should have with vpw's years of plagiarism. They should have but don't care at all. Upon my graduation into the way corps I was starting to become keenly aware of the many problems twi had in front of them to survive as a church/ministry. I was still under the impression that rosalie was the deliverer and was slowly changing things from the inside for the betterment of God's standing belivers in the household of the way. Pfffft. My assignments at hq as assistant DC, DC, and prez cabinet opened my eyes fully to the sad truth. The truth that if the Allen lawsuit never happened nothing would have ever changed. in TWI But change happened anyway so that must be good and rosalie still TWI protector, right? Wrong Wrong Wrong! During a cabinet meeting one Thursday afternoon rosalie went on a rant because a certain clergy member at TWI had skipped the STS to attend their kids softball game. She plainly stated that she hated all the changes that had been forced on TWI over the years as a result of the Allen lawsuit. She said if she could, she would take a baseball bat to the dude who had skipped the STS. If she could she would undo all the changes forced on TWI by their lawyers. IT was during this time that I fully started to realize the simple truth. The way international had been hide vpw's evils for years. But because of craig martindale's evils being brought into a court of law they have had to white wash every aspect of TWI into the bland, boring crap it is today. Most disgustingly, they blatantly hide vps plagiarism, the fact that he was a sexual predator and adulterer. They hide that he was a drunk. he was mean, short tempered, kept body guards. They especially hide the way east and west and the hostile takeover vpw did to Heefner and Doop. My God, where would the list stop if I were to continue? They way is a preservation society that has elevated victor paul wierwille above Christ and knowingly covered sin after sin of it's founder and successor(s). Most importantly rosalie rivenbark has hid her own sins as someone who not only knew that craig was a sexual predator but also helped him conceal his crimes until she risked too much exposure. The way international truly is extremely deceptive in how they have handled God's Word. I'm thankful I witnessed what I did and can put it out in plain sight, So much more could be said, so much more had been said. Here's part of my two cents. - -
  2. 6 points
    Don't know if you will remember me....I was on about 13 years ago, then not until now. I started out as chinson ... then married Stevelw! .... and kinda dropped off the map. Update: kids are all grown, still very happily married to Stevelw! , got a masters in Clinical Mental Health Counseling and am now writing my dissertation for a doctorate in Counseling Psychology. Working as a mental health therapist and loving life! Wanted to get back to "the spot" cuz so much of my life was made better by the loving people on this site and the support, friendship, and occasional kick in the butt... So...Hello Again (music from the Jazz Singer with Neil Diamond swells)
  3. 6 points
    What a total load of bullocks. How much more inventive can TWI be, in belittling people? Most everyone you meet has a debt - a mortgage - that they are working to pay off. It's cheaper than renting, often. (Even though my mortgage is quite a lot of money, it would be nearly twice as much to rent a similar place - and I couldn't rent anywhere remotely habitable for what I pay in mortgage... a grotty bedsit, maybe?) (Actually, I couldn't even afford to rent a place!!) Debt has risks, true, but there are risks in not having debts. Much better to help people think about their money in a proper manner, learn to budget properly, and work out the best way to borrow if there is really no other way. My church hosts a Christians Against Poverty debt centre to help people in debt. Helps them manage finances, gives them a compassionate hand up when they're crushed by debt, sets up debt plans and even bankruptcy (so as to give a fresh start). Isn't that a better way to encourage people with debt - rather than beat them over the head with Bible verses? And the gentle compassionate approach - guess what! - leads some people to choose to become very thankful Christians.
  4. 5 points
    Good morning. Thought I'd share a bit from my recent website post, "Good People I Met At The Way" "Greetings, subscribers and other readers who stumble across this website. By now, you have probably noticed I have a book in the making. It’s my very personal story of seventeen years in The Way International, a biblical research, teaching, and fellowship ministry that became one of the largest fundamentalist cults in America in its heyday of the 80s. I met many good people at The Way and you’ll meet some of them in my book soon. ... I’ve written many posts about cults and fundamentalism. Today, I just want to make some points clear for those of you who have never come in contact with any Way people before. ... Most Way folks had good intentions about helping people, many desired to serve God in every way, and others sought a godly cause to live for. However, I now consider even the most sincere of Way followers (then and now) as misguided, deceived, and in some cases … gulp … brainwashed. Myself included. Thankfully, with help from many folks, I’ve learned to sort the good from the bad over the years, and am still doing it. My book, Undertow, tells a lot of my story. But the sorting and learning will never be over, even after Undertow is published, which will be soon after the elections next week. In my book, Undertow, you will meet many good people I knew at The Way. Some who have left are still my friends. Some share stories and information at GreaseSpot Café, an online community founded by Michael Duffy that has helped many people recover. * Read the entire text of the post here: The Good People I Met At The Way I think all of us here at GSC owe Michael Duffy a debt of gratitude for his steadfast courage in making this site available so people can access stories and information about The Way that is not available anywhere else. In a democracy, people deserve to have facts from as many sides of an issue, cults included, as they can find before making any decisions about how to proceed in their lives. Cheers to Michael and all of you grease spotters for taking a stand against the propaganda of The Way and mustering the courage to speak out! You inspire me!
  5. 5 points
    Hi All! Well....I actually finished forcing myself to listen to those lying, sanctimonious, self-deluded fools. I could only take it in 8-10 minute segments, once a day. I felt as if I was watching the defendants at the Nurenberg trials lying their sleazy butts off. Where were they 30 fucking years ago?? These self-serving phonies were the Goehrings, the Eichmanns, the Goebbels, the Speers, the Himmlers of dictor paul's Aryan Nazi cult. I remember some letter writings back in 1986 and1987. I remember these same little Nazi asskissers congratulating themselves over and over for coming to the aid of da forehead throughout the 1990's buying every absurdity he made them believe and thereby carrying out the grand atrocities he devised in his pathologically disturbed mind and corrupt soul. NO ONE HELD A GUN TO ANY OF YOUR HEADS YOU CHICKENSHIT SELF-SERVING PIMPS AND WHORES. I remember old Boob himself so strung out on self-pity and anti-depressants that all the little crybaby could do was sit in meetings with his head on the table crying the crocodile tears of a zombie-wayfer. Horney sounds like a tape of da dancing president. There must not remain a single coherent, non way-brained braincell left in that clanging cranium. And Funnyboy Fort. Get em laughing on the way to the Gulags or push em into the gas chambers, l'il standup wannabe, Mikey the trustee's kid. I won't even get started on their perky, cutesy, smarmy, little slut wives. What a ship of fools. The combined courage of the cowardly lion and a combined IQ of 70. They ALL KNEW the truth about dictor paul, Rosie, da forehead and Donna, coward, ding dong, townsends, cummins, geer, finnegan, lynn, wrenn, et al, as well as their own filth over these many decades now. I was there you jerks. I KNOW! YOU KNOW THAT I KNOW. BUT, MOST IMPORTANTLY, THE LORD JESUS CHRIST KNOWS. And he will surely say to all of you hypocrites and spiritual cadavers, "I never knew you!". And, certainly, and obviously, you have never known Him! Selah!
  6. 5 points
    I don't agree with a single word if this. Such a wild claim requires a big burden of proof. His theological claims are unsubstantiated, his Greek was lousy at best, and his Biblical studies were fraudulent or a century out dated, although none of that is surprising since his credentials were artificial and he didn't allow review of his work and he didn't cite his sources. He was a phony though and through.
  7. 5 points
    Greetings, ImLikeSoConfused! I would have responded to this thread sooner, but I had a heart attack on February 9th which landed me at the hospital DOA. The docs resuscitated me and I've spent the intervening time in physical and occupational therapy, without access to the internet until last Friday. One of the things I've gained from the experience is a partial appreciation of how many people really do love me, including many of my fellow posters here at GSC. There is a difference between preaching and teaching. Preaching draws the auditor's attention to something. Teaching purports to explain the nuts and bolts of how a thing works. Wierwille preached many truths that were straight out of the Bible. Otherwise, no one would have paid any attention to anything he was saying. But in his teaching, Wierwille often directly contradicted the very truth he was preaching at the time. Many people who took to heart the things Wierwille preached got the results that God's Word promises. You yourself know all too well what can happen to the people who take to heart the things Wierwille taught... delusion... being played. One of Wierwille's greatest sins was to attribute the credit for the good things happening in peoples' lives to himself and his classes rather than to God through the Lord Jesus Christ. The flip side of that same coin was to attribute peoples' failures to their lack of believing rather than to the flaws of his teaching. This is the main reason I don't recommend Wierwille's writings to anyone else. It's just too much work... confusing work at that... separating the truth from the error in PFAL, etc. If you think one of your friends or acquaintances could benefit from a truth of God's Word, then simply speak to them the truth that you know. You don't have to explain the whole Bible to them. You couldn't if you wanted to. Nobody can explain the whole Bible, and ANYONE who tells you otherwise is trying to pull a con. No legitimate scholar would make such a claim. Love, Steve
  8. 5 points
    I found - abject misery. I was committed to TWI, they weren't committed to me, and threw me out with max ignominy and slander. Lost everything - everything that I hadn't given up previously, to follow the dictates of TWI. What did I find? After 10 years, I found GreaseSpot Cafe. And then - I found out about the lies, deception, ill-treatment, and that the way I'd been treated was nothing to do with me or anything I'd done - it was merely the modus operandi of TWI. And then what did I find? I found healing, peace of mind. Joy in life. Hard times, but I could thrive in them. Great friends, some of whom had "been there" all the time for me. Restored relationships. People who were kind and gentle, and truly loving. Freedom to love and serve. No condemnation. Daily, I find something of the years that the locust had destroyed, being restored to me.
  9. 5 points
    I've consulted with the mods (no I haven't). Well, with all the mods who check in regularly (which means me and pretty much no one else). The ban stays. No politics.
  10. 4 points
    Gonna speak from my heart. I sold my honest soul to twi. Based on a lie that Craig Martindale was the man of god for our day and time. I hold no fault. Decieving and being deceived. I have learned to let my anger go. Let my words stand as a warning. TWI is a corrupt organization. That u can use God's Words to profit u only serves yourself. What was spoken was stolen. All i ever saw from 1999 to 2008 was a flat out coverup. Lies and a flat out coverup. How tf can u deny Craig Martindale. Donna? Really? U came to my house and told me I needed a break? Who tf are u. Btw i did walk in on Marsha n Melissa having a make out session in the EOB. Straight mouth to mouth. And how many times did i see u and Rosalie together. U at her house and her at yours. My house is clean. JYDL. Open your damn eyes. U think they groomed u for honesty sake? John L!nder could sink this life raft at any time. And u think Donna's not controlling things? I saw first hand at placements 2007 Donna and Rosalie huddled up on break deciding Way Corps assignments. Our lives are worth more. But this one thing i can say. I gave my all heart and soul. Open and honestly. Thank u for opening my eyes. U can't hide the truth.
  11. 4 points
    I'm not even going to bother listening/watching to the R&R presentations you all are talking about. I remember when we got the boot writing a four-page letter explaining our situation to the Reverend Mr. Fort. We felt we had been unfairly treated by D*&e M1ln$r, the branch coordinator, and wished to clarify what we saw as his sarcastic, legalistic, unreasonable attitude. The Most Exceedingly Great and Mighty Man of God the Reverend Mr. Fort wrote a snide, snarky sarcastic little note on the last page of our letter and sent it back. Something like "Amazing that you take four pages to explain what D.M. could explain clearly in four sentences in a phone call. Don't bother trying to come back." I did figure out where D.M. learned his nasty, sarcastic ways, though. The Moneyhands as you call them were limb leaders in a state we lived in. They were, to my humble observation, very very very very superior to us mere peasants. The Mrs. did offer to administer some kind of a personality test to me, which I declined. "Don't you want to know how you think?" she asked me. "I believe I'm supposed to think the Word of God." I replied. I don't have a terribly good impression of her brand of psychology. Didn't trust her then or now. I don't remember meeting any of the other people on the list. Sad, though, to think they are setting themselves up to delude, degrade, and destroy even more hapless souls than they already have. Not a single one of them is worth a penny of my money or a second of my time.
  12. 4 points
    Facebook Q&A: Q. How can I find out the real lowdown on The Way? A. Well, there's this thing call GreaseSpot ..........
  13. 4 points
    2000s was when i was at hq and Gunnison, mostly at HQ. There was a lot of backlash from the Allen and Parker lawsuits. Dissenting top leadership at HQ were isolated, then marked n avoided when they wouldnt fall in line. Happened at hq and on the field too. Then the backlash from the debt policy hit full force with multiple letters and research disproving the biblical accuracy of the no debt policy. Of course rosalie had Rico Magnelli do a teaching proving hq was right. By teaching i mean he had to run his "research" through Rosalie's process of going through multiple layers of approval to make sure it didnt contradict the no debt policy. I digress. 2000s were no different than other times. I was one of many younger corps grads who thought i could change the way international if only i stayed way corps and used my leadership positions to love people and do my best to show them Gods goodness. Noble intentions but my intentions were sorely misplaced. Theres no changing the way international. It is, was, and will remain an abusive cult with those involved serving those at the top of the pyramid.
  14. 4 points
    Lots of jumbled assertions and accusations in that paragraph. "you folks want the dirty laundry"...........nope. I want to dismantle the wierwille-mystique and the cult's power to "steal, kill and destroy" others. "an entrusted person, a confidant".........how else would someone be privy to inside information? "it dirties the concept of loyalty, friend or foe".......umm, MRAP have you ever read about the Apostle Paul, a Pharisee of the Pharisees? "evil or good, I despise a breach in loyalty"...........wow, guess everyone who leaves a cult should cower and slink away, huh? Since I started this thread.....let me repeat the gist (first post) of why write "a tell-all book".... Secrets that could bust the wierwille-mystique once and for all? Secrets that could enlighten the geer power-grab and fog years? Secrets that could rattle the martindales and craig's buy-off? Frankly, I could care less about hearing any more of wierwille/martindale/twi "dirty laundry"........who really cares to hear more about seducers and seductresses? about three-somes in Dayton motels, corps girls abused and/or raped in motor coaches? about Cabin 12 at camp gunnison and the set-up wherein corps coordinators made sure martindale was provided privacy and access to selected in-rez girls? What about "the loyalty" to the faithful followers who think (cough, cough) that twi is legit? What about the craig martindale payoff.....the buy-out to silence him? How much was he given up front.......cash money, ira investment, insurance access, nice car, perks, stuff.........and THEN, $60,000 per year for life. At $60,000 per year..............martindale has ALREADY received $900,000. At this rate, .......in another 25 years.......add another $1,500,000. Wonder if the newbie cult-followers understand that their ABS helps supply "retirement funds" to a sexual predator? We know that martindale slithered away into the night to Toledo......to live in a twi-owned house. So, does craig STILL have this added perk? Does twi pay the property tax, electric, water and association fees? If so........WOW, that stretches that $60,000 even further. Then......does craig get access to Camp Gunnison? What are ALL the hidden perks that are skimmed from the cult's "abundant sharing" that pay for martindale's silence? If I were in the twi-cult...............I would want to know this evil. Then, and only then...................could I make an informed decision as to stay or not.
  15. 4 points
    here's a little teaser for tonight's teaching: While it may be important to remember "to whom it is addressed" It’s just as important to know a tutu is not a dress
  16. 4 points
    Hmmm. Just indulge me here in a wee bit of fantasy: Wouldn't it be interesting (and oh so sweet!) if LCM could ever be persuaded to attend a "party" somewhere, and all the invitees are people he used, abused, sexually assaulted, maligned, betrayed, slandered and smeared to others, M&A'd, etc.! They could each step up and tell their story. The problem is he hasn't a shred of humility to make the listening worthwhile. I do hope there is a day of reckoning coming for Twinkletoes in Tights..
  17. 4 points
    Part IX FreshAir77 We, as a family, walked away from the cult.......and breathed fresh air. Nothing else mattered. Every time I look at my wife and our two sons.....it was totally worth it. I walked thru a cult-hell to find my bride.......and married an angel. And, I dedicate this last chapter to my Dad and Mom.....they walked thru hell with me and for me. Thanks Dad. Thanks Mom. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Thank you Greasespotters !! I have no more words. You all are truly amazing and I dedicate the title of this "book" to you. I'm going introvert for awhile......to ponder the depths of the oceans, the reaches of the universe. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Ghost Ryders In The Sky ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ .
  18. 4 points
    Advanced Class Grads: Before moving on, I would like to give a shoutout to advanced class grads. I know that this timeline is focused on my limb coordinator experience and the full-time corps aspects......but really, I could give dozens and dozens of accounts of the many wonderful advanced class grads near and far. When we ran classes, none of it would have been possible, in depth and heart, without the support and giving of your talents and time. Branch meetings, special seminars, Pentecost weekends, limb events, weddings, etc..........advanced class grads provided the backbone of support. Thank you for all of it. You, too, gave time away from your families and kids to help serve. You, too, got less sleep or carried burdens that you probably got very little thanks in return. Some of my fondest memories were with you. Heck, there was a time when things were less crazy that we went snow skiing together (Whistler, British Columbia, Canada) or those times of basketball, waterskiing, golf outings, movies, barbeques, etc. Many of you advanced class grads sponsored us thru the corps program.....even when we didn't write letters of thanks all that often. Some of you had businesses and offered employment to us wandering corps. I am indebted to so many advanced class grads who helped carry me when I was weary of heart. Thanks....you helped me in so many ways and changed my life and my family. .
  19. 4 points
    Links to local and national news coverage, including video from Fox9 and the Minneapolis Star Tribune. Photo essay... Star Tribune article with video Two Childhood Rape Survivors Just Ended a Cult Leader’s Terrifying Reign (nymag.com) Minnesota Cult Leader Victor Barnard Sentenced to 30 Years (nymag.com) Excerpts from survivors' (Jess and Lindsay) statements included in a couple of the linked articles. It might be important to remember and reflect on the fact that Barnard didn't come up with his scheme completely out of the blue. His "father in the word" sowed the seeds, and so did LCM. And current prez Rosalie R, as noted in documents from legal proceedings related to Martindale's misadventures was fully aware of the sexual abuse at TWI's top levels of leadership at least as far back as the early 1990s.
  20. 4 points
    Responding to this: "I am quite certain this forum thread will be offensive to some (depends on your circle quad) because some folks out there held corp folk in highest esteem (in some ways I still do) and some loathe corp folk just like I do. What I like most about corp folk is that mostly but not absolutely can validate the teachings of vpw and that includes all the things he took from folks like Bullinger, etc. but you would have to post on the doctrinal forum to do that which seems below some corp folk level. Yes, I recently learned about levels here on GSC, I was elated to learn I was down there in doctrinal being spoon fed, I am ignorant having not sat at the feet of the master so ask and listen on the most stupid things I am allowed to ask; guess I caught the elevator. You see, one of the primary things a person leaving twi wants to know is what is crap and what was true." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I was never in the Corps. I was in a program called FellowLaborers. FellowLaborers, for those who don't know, was sometimes referred to as the bastard stepchild of the Corps. We were in-rez at Limb Hq for 2 years and followed the same set of principles as the Way Corps. We lived communally in a block of rental townhouses. (~50 participants/8 townhouses) One of the major differences between the Corps and FellowLaborers was that we were NOT allowed to have sponsors. We had to hold down full time secular jobs, in addition to our duties as FellowLaborers, and pay our own way. We had a housing fund, which covered rent and utilities, a "Manna" fund to cover the cost of our food co-op (can't pay=can't eat), a "household fund", which covered the cost of incidentals for our townhouses (6 to a townhouse), such as toilet paper, dish soap and various other exciting things. We also had personal expenses such as laundry, personal clothing, gasoline and the like. We had to ABS and were technically required to sponsor someone in the Corps. (I say technically because no one ever had much left over for such a requirement so it was virtually winked at if someone couldn't cover their pledge.) OK, with that out of the way, here's my point. People who weren't in the program seemed to think we were being exposed to some kind of in-depth Biblical insight, studying the meat of the word and all that kind of jazz. Well, the truth is, we probably read the Bible even less than you folks in the local twigs. Who had time? We were too busy weeding our communal garden, making mayonnaise from scratch or mixing huge batches of familia. We had no time to spend on any "in-depth" research. We read and reread and re-reread the same old stuff everybody else read (blue book, PFAL collaterals,etc) When we had our weekly teaching night, it was hit or miss on subject matter and usually pretty much focused on how much we had "screwed up" the previous week. We were never quite good enough. We weren't special. We weren't elite. People in our hometowns may have thought we were but, truly, we were not. We were just a misguided bunch of schmoes, trying to make it from one day to the next, with precious little time or wakefulness to ever look at the bigger picture. I can't speak for the Corps experience. I suspect there are fundamental similarities. So, please, stop thinking program participants have an inside scoop and can bring a more profound and scholastic understanding to the discussion, especially on doctrinal issues. Some can, of course. But, that's because of what they have to offer as individuals, not because the programs made them excel. I hope that made some sense.
  21. 3 points
    Good thread to bring back from the abyss... Since 2004, to my knowledge, two books by former TWI insiders have been published: Losing the Way: A Memoir of Spiritual Longing, Manipulation, Abuse and Escape by Kristen Skedgell (2008) " A riveting and finely crafted true story, Losing the Way recounts how the daughter of East Coast intellectuals was recruited into a well-known rightwing Bible cult, The Way International, where she was manipulated, betrayed, and abused, before being rescued by the worldly mother she rejected. Skedgell shows how easily an idealistic young person can be swept away by a spiritual quest and the quiet malevolence lurking beneath the religious exterior of a false leader." and Undertow: My Escape from the Fundamentalism and Cult Control of The Way International by Charlene Edge (2016) "Charlene Edge’s riveting memoir about the power of words to seduce, betray, and, in her case, eventually save. After a personal tragedy left her bereft, teenaged Charlene rejected faith and family when recruiters drew her into The Way International, a sect led by the charismatic Victor Paul Wierwille. The Way became one of the largest cults in America. Charlene gave it seventeen years of her life. Believing that God led her to Wierwille, she underwent his intensive two-year training program, The Way Corps, designed to produce loyal leaders. When Wierwille warned of a possible government attack, she prepared to live off the grid. She ignored warning signs of Wierwille’s paranoia and abuse—he condemned dissenters as the Devil’s agents, he required followers to watch pornography, he manipulated Corps into keeping his secrets in a “lock box,” he denied the Holocaust, and he surrounded himself with bodyguards. She married a Corps graduate and they served across the United States as Way leaders, funneling money into Wierwille’s bursting coffers and shunning anyone who criticized him. As obedient Way Corps, they raised their child to believe the doctrines of Wierwille, the cult’s designated “father in the Word.” Eventually Charlene was promoted to the inner circle of biblical researchers, where she discovered devastating secrets: Wierwille twisted texts of Scripture to serve his personal agenda, shamelessly plagiarized the work of others, and misrepresented the purpose of his organization. Worst of all, after Wierwille died in 1985, shocking reports surfaced of his secret sex ring. Amid chaos at The Way’s Ohio-based headquarters, Charlene knew she had to escape—for her own survival and her child’s. Reading like a novel, Undertow is not only a brilliant cautionary tale about misplaced faith but also an exposé of the hazards of fundamentalism and the destructive nature of cults. Through her personal story, Charlene Edge shows how a vulnerable person can be seduced into following an authoritarian leader and how difficult it can be to find a way out.
  22. 3 points
    The cult cannot survive out in the open.......it seeks the shadows and the darkness. Open discussions on the field and open internet forums will NEVER happen. Rivenbark tried to take the upper-hand by extending a sappy "invite to hq." Wierwille perceived that seclusion on a farm setting would build his cult. It hasn't changed from its inception........and it ain't gonna change now. Old McWierwille had a farm......ee i ee i o And, on this farm he built a cult......and that's "the way" to go.
  23. 3 points
    There are many out there who say VPW would "turn over in his grave" if he heard what was going on. I would just add that if that were the case, it would be to get a better view....
  24. 3 points
    Thankfully, our two boys never had to run the gauntlet of classes and twi-indoctrination where there is NO LIGHT at the end of such striving. Where would our lives be today if we'd kept prevailing (cough, cough) in twi's cornfield? As we were exiting, my Region coordinator smugly told me that Martindale was going to assign me to the Presidents' Cabinet at HQ. Wowsers. I am SO GLAD that we never got pulled back into that snare again. The micromanagement, the monitoring, no life to call your own......and what about our boys? Looking back, I shudder to imagine how things would have turned out. Would twi have allowed my oldest son the time and space to study and excel in high school? in college? in medical school? More than likely, there would have been corps grads along the way to browbeat and belittle his "secular" studies. What about the guilt that builds inside from such manipulation? Heck, I've read articles that the suicide rate amongst medical students is very high.....let alone a student who graduates #1 and gets the chancellor award in a class of 300+ medical students. Thank God my son was far removed from twi by then. On one hand, twi boasts of "believing" to live the more abundant life......YET, they demean THE YEARS OF DEDICATION AND ACTION that it takes to get from point A to point B. Are the directors and corps grads THAT clueless? Are they so regimented in lockstep loyalty that they cannot see their demented logic? Sure, Dr. Carol-yn R@wlins was committed to twi.....BUT she had made her journey and reputation years before hearing pfal. Are all those innie kids going to follow in the path of brian moneyhands or j2p2? The gauntlet of classes and indoctrination......I remember. I was in college when I started thru this gauntlet. Month after month, the leadership was lining up ANOTHER class for us pfal grads to take. They were poking and prodding us onward. Don't look back. And, twig after twig, they'd end it with a plug for going wow ambassador. Go and grow with God. Subtle, slick indoctrination. And, even though I decided to give 'a year to God' as a wow, I had every intention of finishing college. But the seduction of twi's indoctrination had a way of subverting my soul. Why give heed to secular learning when God has/had a much higher calling for your life? Go Corps. Looking back, I see whole swaths of corps grads whose lives have been upended, divorced and destroyed. Dozens and dozens of my fellow corps have run the gauntlet and succumbed to defeat. Heck, look at martindale, the corps mascot. Where is HE today? Divorced. Devoured. Dethroned. WARNING: Run the gauntlet at your own risk. .
  25. 3 points
    Thread Title: Is it okay to recommend wierwille's books to others? Alternate Title: Is it okay to burn these books to protect others from the cult snare?
  26. 3 points
    After the live "Defeating the Adversary" class, filmed, and all of this excitement going on with $$$$$ hemorrhaging, Corpse alumni, and the rest, even though we are just as spiritually sharp as a tack there, somehow the numbers aren't increasing. As far as purging, there are only so many old rodeo clowns you can fire because their horses cost too much or people you can make an example of because their kid takes tae kwon do lessons. But hey, we are a cult. We can do so much more. Let's start by the Pregnancy Policy. Ladies, if you are under 35 and don't have any kids, you are not allowed to get pregnant. After all, women are a commodity in the ministry. They should walk 10 steps behind their husbands and only speak at home. Thus we have successfully implemented the same cost cutting controls as Communist China. We are really making progress here. One dude with a few kids already makes the spiritually betraying mistake of copulation with his wife ending in a pregnancy. He asks for an exception. 3 hours of screaming later on a Corpse night and we have a new purge victim, and plenty of fear of unprotected sex. Except for the mogfodt harem though - they were all on the pill. No pets allowed. dog food costs money. Thus, the "Expense Cutting Purge". Many fall victim to this. After this comes the "Bribery Purges". All the fulltime ministers now are dirt poor. One starting teachers salary for 2 fulltime employees. Some cull additional income through working the populace for gifts. Free cars, free computers, etc. Oh no. That is evil. That is bribery. We need to purge that and implement a law. Purge, purge, purge. Now full-time ministers are no longer able to accept gifts, they are to suffer in silence. I just don't understand. All of this purging going on - surely God must notice it. Surely it must turn the ministry around. Surely we are the most pure spiritual beings you ever encountered now. Classes should just run everywhere. But they don't. Somehow, basic common sense is bypassed - how can you expect to increase numbers and revenue by kicking everyone out and chasing them off? But hey - I guess that is one thing you can't expect from a mogfodt - common sense. What is the culprit? The PFAL class is too old. Too out of date. Too hard to balance getting the red on the rose to balance with real live flesh colors on a TV set. Too many outdated jokes and references. We've already had tremendous success remaking the DTA class. The live one worked for a while, then we bought cameras and crap to film before a live captive studio audience at HQ. That was great. We found so many devils to kick out. So let's ramp up to take it on. The huge one. The mamba jamba. The spiritually most significant event of our lifetime - the remake of Power for Abundant Living.
  27. 3 points
    DWBH has a medical background. DWBH has both study and experience in medicine, at some level. vpw didn't- and still spoke at length on cancer. It was common for vpw to speak at length on topics on which he was factually ignorant.
  28. 3 points
    Remember the good old days in TWI – when problem-solving was made easy. Any challenge, obstacle, problem 1, or issue could be handled by a simple formula, rule, list of steps/keys, principle, pat phrase, or when all else fails S.I.T. Needless to say – for the most part these "problem-solving" tips were great for relieving one of a very heavy burden - - - thinking. These became our repertoire in counseling, decision-making or in any typical problem-solving context. To receive anything from God you must first know what, class? What are the keys to walking by the spirit? What is the great principle? Believing equals what, class?.....i'll take what is bu11 $h it2 for $200, Alex. ~~ I've thought a lot about when I first heard The Passing of the Patriarch and the aftershocks of turmoil, confusion, frustration, doubt, fear and even anger. And maybe it was after the dust settled that many started experiencing a unique sensation called thinking. This was a milestone in the next phase of a journey – the re-awakening of problem-solving skills. It's been said a problem clearly defined is halfway solved4. I think there may be something to that. However, when you're knee deep in the BS2 of leaders blame-shifting, avoiding the issues, attributing any problems, failures and trouble in the ranks as being caused by devil spirits you have about as much chance of identifying the problem as a blind man would in finding a blue book in the middle of a stack of orange books3. Maybe an aberrant form of the inverse would apply here – any problem defined by TWI is as clear as mud and will take forever and a day to solve. So by discouraging thinking and stunting growth of problem-solving skills, TWI in effect just about guarantees that a follower will fail at solving the greatest problem of all – why life in the Way Ministry is so miserable. Perhaps if the solution was laid out in a simple list – more folks would leave TWI… In order to be free of TWI you must know 1. Freedom is available: I can recall many a teaching that laid out their prophecy of doom – any choice other than the ministry's way leads only to oblivion. Don't believe that BS2. Think outside the box5. 2. How to receive it: pack your bags and high-tail it outta there. Pass "go" and do not collect the abundant sharing – matter of fact, give any collected money back to folks. Believing you're free equals you'll be leaving the Way Tree. 3. What to do with it after you've got it: don't look back! Join Grease Spot. Witness to friends & family about your new found freedom. 4. Your willingness to comply equals their ability to ensnare you: become rebellious. Pray in the name of Davey Crockett at your next twig meeting. Question everything they say. Pour cayenne pepper on the critical thinking lobe of your brain. 5. Needs and wants don't have to be parallel: they don't have to be perpendicular, concentric, or elliptical either. This is America for gosh sakes. Land of the FREE and home of those brave enough to thumb their noses at pseudo-religious control-freaks. ~~ ~~ footnotes 1. Note to reader on the above use of "problem"; in case you've lost your TWI Secret Decoder Ring, in the beginning "problem" was encrypted to appear as "opportunity". When was "the beginning"? According to the gap theory, it was sometime between plagiarizing the material of Kenyon, BG Leonard and a host of others. How long was that period of time? You can make it as long as you like. If any of you scholars out there want to place the dinosaurs in that time period, feel free to do so. As a matter of fact that will be addressed later in my class when we look into the evolutionary process of fossil fuels changing into snow covered gas pumps….by the way, tonight's message boys and girls is "….take more PFAL…" 2. bu11 $h i+ and BS, also known as the rightly divided word of vic. 3. To be fair, there are numerous cases on record of blind people easily identifying the Blue Book from the Orange Book when book covers were in Braille. There are also numerous cases of people with a unique form of mental blindness who cannot tell the difference between the Bible and any of the PFAL books. 4. Perhaps the other side of the coin that states "a problem clearly defined is halfway solved" might read "the biggest obstacle to solving a problem is being unaware that there is a problem. 5. The box refers to the itty bitty room where you first took the class, and specifies the exact dimensions of your projected growth – analogous to the idea that fish will only grow so big inside a very small tank. Jump out of the tank why dontcha! ~~ edited in this day and time and hour by someone who has not mastered the art of telling time
  29. 3 points
    The plagiarism explains why there is no research department, why nobody can replicate the research, why nobody can explain the research, most importantly, why nobody can build on it. It's just random stuff that sounded good to the mentality of ignorant, idealistic youth.
  30. 3 points
    TWI plunders individual sovereignty.....every class, every program. Wierwille's pfal pitches a "stand on the word".....but really, the message is "stand with twi and against all others." Keep your distance from "worldly influences".....from secular learning, family associations, denominations, etc. Further, in the Dealing with the Adversary class.....one of the FOUR FRONTS of the Devil is YOURSELF. Yeah, you are the culprit. You cannot trust your discernment, your critical thinking skills......you NEED wierwille/twi to do THAT for you. You just surrendered your individual sovereignty. Now......twi has power over you. Classes, more classes......way homes, wow ambassador, fellowlaborers, corps, university of life.....all with the same goal: TWI ASCENDANCY. Every dollar, every hour of volunteer work, every day of witnessing for twi....was profit to the organization. Today, twi sits on some $52 MILLION. Is there any wonder why twi targeted the youth? As youth are easily absorbed into groups, teams, clubs, gangs, they are more susceptible to groupthink and authority figures. Not adults. Generally speaking, most adults have experienced deception and scams and political/religious rhetoric to see the wolf in sheep's clothing. The corps indoctrination had so violated individual sovereignty.....that it seemed like there was a corps cloning factory in Emporia.
  31. 3 points
    Another generic mumbo-jumbo wierwille splinter cult............ Why is it?............Seems like every splinter group starts out the same way? Same generic spiel.........same "get back to the Word that wierwille taught us" Same pyramid structure, same "way tree" concept, same funneling $$$$ one direction..... And NEVER......NEVER broach the subject of wierwille's plagiarism, drunkenness, twisted scripture, predatory assaults, etc. Why ANOTHER wierwille cult-splinter? When people escape from Scientology.......do they start up another L. Ron Hubbard splinter group? Why are the wierwille splinters everywhere? Is it THAT easy to tweak some scriptures and gain a following?
  32. 3 points
    I can. The fellowship I attend is part of the St. Louis Bible Fellowship. I've been told that back in the 80s 85% of abs went to hq and 15% stayed in the limb. We do the opposite. In 2006 there were a bad series of storms here and we were without electricity for 8 days. It happened in July when the temp was 100 degrees or so. Pretty much everybody on our block had to waste food. Some of us had freezers full of food. What do you suppose it smelled like with all those trash dumpsters at the curb. We spent 5 of the 8 nights in motels. We also received a check for several hundred dollars taken out of abs. I'm guessing we weren't the only believers who got that. Never got anything like that from twi. There are places in scripture where believers helped other believers in need. (Acts6:1-6, Acts11:27-30)
  33. 3 points
  34. 3 points
    So.......admittedly, this group has been scheming a departure and "power grab" for at least 4 years. First of all, this RnR group will SOON REALIZE.......once people break away from the fear-based twit-cult, they will NOT automatically follow another "designated leader." Once the stranglehold is broken......and IF any venture on over to GSC......they will find whole new vistas of thought and freedom. Their critical thought processes will engage......AND......many will STOP GOING TO AN RnR-SPLINTER GROUP, as well. Many who went to CES..........don't anymore. Many who went to CFF..........don't anymore. Once people break free from the chains of fear, manipulation and exploitation........they ain't going to regularly attend RnR "fellowships" and give a hunk of their hard-earned money to ANOTHER group that preaches wierwille-adulation. Plus, add in some corps grad egos who want salaried........and, bang, off to the races they go with more in-fighting, back-biting, and splintering. Once people exit a cult..........it's a brave, new world out there. Go for it.
  35. 3 points
    I think we all struggle with what we should believe. A friend of mine on social media posted this quote from Paulo Coelho, a famous Brazilian author. To me it fits this struggle.... "None of us can be in the present and the past at the same time, not even when we try to understand the things that happen to us. What has passed will not return: we cannot for ever be children, late adolescents, sons that feel guilt or rancor towards our parents, lovers who day and night relive an affair with someone who has gone away and has not the least intention of coming back. Things pass, and the best we can do is to let them really go away. That is why it is so important (however painful it may be!) to destroy souvenirs, move, give lots of things away to orphanages, sell or donate the books you have at home. Everything in this visible world is a manifestation of the invisible world, of what is going on in our hearts - and getting rid of certain memories also means making some room for other memories to take their place. Let things go. Release them. Detach yourself from them. Nobody plays this life with marked cards, so sometimes we win and sometimes we lose. Do not expect anything in return, do not expect your efforts to be appreciated, your genius to be discovered, your love to be understood. Stop turning on your emotional television to watch the same program over and over again, the one that shows how much you suffered from a certain loss: that is only poisoning you, nothing else. Nothing is more dangerous than not accepting love relationships that are broken off, work that is promised but there is no starting date, decisions that are always put off waiting for the "ideal moment." Before a new chapter is begun, the old one has to be finished: tell yourself that what has passed will never come back. Remember that there was a time when you could live without that thing or that person - nothing is irreplaceable, a habit is not a need. This may sound so obvious, it may even be difficult, but it is very important. Closing cycles. Not because of pride, incapacity or arrogance, but simply because that no longer fits your life. Shut the door, change the record, clean the house, shake off the dust. Stop being who you were, and change into who you are." Paulo Coelho
  36. 3 points
    Jim Jack, if you want to know about awesome teachers and people who do awesome things, I'd love you to come with me to either of the two churches I regularly attend, spend time with the ministers there and with the congregations, and come out with us on some of our many and varied genuine outreach and assistance events. You will find many who walk the talk, and talk the walk. There are many people who are worthy of national and international respect, genuine scholarship, genuine very high level appointments (one is chaplain to the Queen), one is a peer of the realm (a genuine aristocrat) - and all are so humble, quiet, gentle, and inclusive. There are no TV evangelists, but from time to time the BBC broadcasts the Easter or a Christmas service from Bath abbey (where the Queen's chaplain has his "regular job" as the Rector of the abbey) and the rector is the nicest man who really points the way to Jesus and honours God. You want what he's got, not because he "sells" it in loud manner, but because of his quietness, peacefulness and confidence in the Lord. The peer has set up many programs to assist homeless and vulnerable people and is a real "mover and shaker" to get things done that bring Christ to the overlooked, and to build Christian unity among believers. Yet he's so self-effacing that he is easy to overlook. I know of several who have given land or large amounts of money for community projects (it's taken me a long time to find this out because they don't shout about it). I know people who have very little in financial terms, but spend their time and energy tirelessly doing things that benefit their community, because of their love for Christ and their desire to show that love. In fact, I could write a very long list of awesome but very humble people that I meet through these churches and the other very active churches, of all denominations, throughout this city. Jim Jack, I can arrange meetings for you with some mightily awesome Christian folks, who from genuine Christian love seek the wellbeing of their community in a huge variety of ways. I can't promise splashy miracles. I can promise genuine heart and genuine and observable turn-round in a myriad of ways, in people's lives. Please let me know when you would like to come with me.
  37. 3 points
    I’m not interested in viewing the teaching nor do I have fond memories of the way we were following a charismatic cult leader. Judging by a previous thread you started - you still seem rather intent on “proselytizing” to an unreceptive audience: thread: anyone ever hear or a follower of Todd White …and as suggested on that thread you might try starting a thread in the doctrinal forum – where you can discuss a system of teachings on a particular topic. That way you might have better luck engaging others in a thoughtful conversation…I don’t mean to be rude – just stating my take on your posts - but your repeated efforts of “testifying” or “witnessing” to the great impact that an assortment of “teachers” has had on your life, does nothing for me. Love & peace T-Bone
  38. 3 points
    I used to think there was comfort in "knowing that I know that I know, ad infinitum". I now realize there is a sense of relief in accepting I'm not as smart as I once thought. It gives me the freedom to explore, to change, to learn in ways that I may have avoided in the past. It was a bit scary, at first, learning my foundation was built on something defective. Wierwille used to say "You can't go beyond what you're taught." My wish for you is that you discover how very wrong he was about that.
  39. 3 points
    So sad. Beyond sad ... it's despicable how people were manipulated, hurt, and used in TWI. My heart goes out to all who were hurt by TWI leaders/members, beginning with VPW who was the one who modeled destructive behavior in the name of following God's Word. Not all leaders became equally destructive, but the potential was there. In my opinion, the root of all the evil perpetrated at TWI was VPW. It all goes back to him. Do not forget that. I knew him. I often wish I'd never met him, but I did meet him, and I was trained by him, and I learned hard lessons. I wasn't paying enough attention. I rationalized his bad behavior. I let his showmanship cloud my judgement about him. T-Bone put it well, "You cannot make someone pay attention to something that he or she does not want to notice." Wake up, people. Do not let TWI doctrines make you feel you should obey them or obey TWI leaders or TWI followers' idealistic view of what The Way is. It is not a transparent organization. Where on their website do you see any credentials for what they say they do best: biblical research? No where.
  40. 3 points
    I was outintexas years ago. I lost my password and since I've been in Ohio nearly six years I just started over with a new account. I was in twi 25 yrs mostly as a low level peon, out since 1999. I'm outandabout's "little" brother. Glad to be back and glad I'm no longer stringing chairs.
  41. 3 points
    Happy New Year Everyone: This will be my last post today, so I wanted to wish you all a Happy New 2017 Year. I plan to watch lots of football, eat snacks and later.....enjoy a couple of Jack and Cokes (maybe, three....just to defy any lingering two-drink limit data that needs deleted from waybrain). Most likely, unless someone comes along with a five million dollar publishing bonus, up front.......this series of posts will be "the book I never wrote, but should have." It does seem fitting though (as of this posting)......today marks the 100th year of victor paul wierwille's birth. A man who claimed to be on a quest to help people........left a wake of devastation. ~~~~~~~~~~ Endings -- New Beginnings: The 1997 Year was ending and......this 1998 Year would be the year that me and my family exited twi never to return. This certainly would be "new beginnings" for the rest of our lives. Should old acquaintance be forgot and never brought to mind...i.e. Auld Lang Syne......apples/oranges I suppose according to context of song vs acquaintances in a cult. Whatever. To me, there's a vast difference between the hierarchy of this cult and the people caught in its web. I have many wonderful memories of people.....unique, loving, individuals.....who were in, or now out, of twi. Personally, I resent the labels and grouping of people....i.e. corps, corps spouse, corps alumni, advanced class grads, etc......but to effectively communicate and expose this cult, I don't see another effective method to convey its tentacles. Should I reverse the groupings? Why all the labeling of corps this, corps that.....as if they are the most important? They aren't (more important).....just more intricately connected to the levels of power and abuse. Adios, 1997.......... ~~~~~~~~~~ When I'm in a reflective mood, as I will be today.........I see individuals, special and unique. Those whom my wife and I love and have loved thru the years. Those still at hq.....in canada.....in oklahoma.....and those, here in indiana. I hold no bitterness to any of them. I wish them well. Some who've exited are dear friends from decades past and now we spend time enjoying them, their kids and grandbabies........but there are still others who are ensnared. If that's their choice to stay, then happy living. But if some are institutionalized by coercion and deception.......there is a way out. Thanks, in large part to GSC, more are re-connecting with loved ones of their past.....and stirred onward to embrace new beginnings, new relationships. All the best.....to all of you. Happy New Year. See you in 2017. Football, snacks and drinks......woohoo.
  42. 3 points
    I'd like to join in on these thank-yous as well. Especially to Pawtucket for making this important and necessary site available. The good it does for many is clear and provable!
  43. 3 points
    wow ... what sweet humility here (don't want to embarrass you by that ... just writing what I saw/felt as I read this!) There's something so damn attractive and endearing to me about a humble man! Your wife and you sound like beautiful folks. : ) (I liked the "I started out small -- on vacation, mother's day, etc".!) Funny. Thanks for such refreshing honesty -- great to read! Funny -- I also have shed the twit indoctrination re: homosexuality ... actually, I'm somewhat ashamed I held it for quite a few years. It was so sickeningly judgmental. And when you consider that Twinkle Toes w/ the enormous forehead was a massive adulterer, it really infuriates beyond anything that he led the homo purges and messed up so many people's lives in the process!
  44. 3 points
    Not necessarily, but you would do well to take your blinders off and consider that you're not always right.
  45. 3 points
    Sitting through a video presentation of ANYONE expounding the Bible again is just not something I ever want to do again! And it's not because I think the Bible is BS (I don't) or any number of negative things some may say it is -- but just because I feel I've sat through enough Bible "teachings" to last a hundred lifetimes!! Hehehe. It's funny ... the fact that one man is still doing the same thing he did for well over 30 years now -- in exact style and content and delivery -- over and over and over again ... is sorta weird to me! Also, when I've popped on JAL's facebook page or clicked on a couple of his YouTube videos ... what I see and hear just does not seem authentic to me. It doesn't seem to be coming from the HEART of the man ... that sacred core where our deepest convictions/passions reside. His presentation almost seems robotic to me ... like some of those eerie Disney displays at the 1964 World's Fair -- where the characters look life-size and true to the human form, but move and talk in a slowed-down, mechanical way! I don't know ... maybe I'm being too harsh in my impressions. Or maybe all those teachings of "a hundred lifetimes" have just taken their toll on me. All I can say is that I've never been so thankful to have walked away when I did from the programming that I acquiesced to in TWI for far too many years! Real life and real people living in the REAL world are just a whole lot ... well ... more REAL than anything I ever lived in when I was a wayfer. Hearing JAL do his JAL thing is like going back in time to the unreal! "Get a chart - get a life"? I don't think so!
  46. 3 points
    Public humiliation. (or fear of it) It's powerful and it's effective.
  47. 3 points
    actually that's hilarious now 1) How many corps are in attendance? just me 2) And, only corps are present? just me 3) And, you're NOT recording is that correct? hang on, let me ask me
  48. 2 points
    Any narcissist who finds other people getting "his" spotlight- especially one who finds their skill in an area exceeds his. Like, say, he's an amateur musician who can't sing and they're professionals.
  49. 2 points
    Yes, some interesting distinctions are born of attributing symptoms to devil spirits. Someone is said to be "possessed of" such and such spirit. Another is "under the influence of" a devil spirit (this was some how not quite as bad, but still a problem). Later, I remember when Don Wierwille died of cancer, the Craiggers wading in on this topic. He brought up the "spirit of infirmity" is as a devil spirit cause of physical disease. There might not have even been sinfulness on the part of the afflicted. It was an attack of the adversary. (Also, smoking too, maybe.) I think cancer as devil spirit is a logical conclusion if you have first accepted the illogical premise that all life is spirit. We were taught that spirit was either spirit of God, a spirit of the devil, or the spirit of man (aka soul life). It's pretty easy to see this has big gaps as WW pointed out. What about fungus, plants, microbes, etc? In as much as cancer has "life of it's own", which category does it belong in? God is supposed to be all good so not Him. Obviously not a man, so that just leaves devil spirits. But then as you point out, if cancer is a devil spirit affliction, what does that even mean? Is it in your mind (that was how it was supposed to work right?) or is it in your body at some level? The more you try to explain it, the farther off the rails you have to go. In short, no, cancer is not caused by devil spirits.
  50. 2 points
    Un-bel-ievable!!! That any parent, but especially a parent who espouses to know God, would literally sacrifice not just one daughter but two and thinking they're doing God's will somehow! How wazzed out do you have to be? My God! That, and in the face of the oldest daughter's revelations. That's just over the top. But, I suppose people have been practicing child sacrifice to some sort of God for millenia. This is just another form. Man I'm glad I'm out.