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Showing content with the highest reputation since 02/24/2018 in all areas

  1. 5 points
    Was idly thinking this evening about the internet, perhaps triggered by the disclosures about Facebook. Had the internet been around when many posters here became enmeshed with TWI - they would have checked it out first. Had the net been widely available when I got enmeshed - again, I'd've checked it out first. Today's potential victims, likely mostly young people, have great opportunity to check TWI out first. Maybe they went along to a couple of fellowships with their mates, but decided to check out the organization before they got more involved. Well, well! When I was (in my ignorance) planning to crawl back to TWI, I googled them and the first site up was - GreaseSpot Cafe! And so it still may be, for random people googling TWI, depending on how they phrase their enquiry. BUT, at least with Google, there's lots of other potential or similar sites listed, both after the main site and at the bottom of the first page. TWI's own boring, very static, site appears high in the list - closely followed by a few anti-TWI sites. We who have been here for a long time know how much GSC has helped us, and most of us remain so that we can help others too. What we can't know is how many people have encountered GSC, had a quick look, and zoomed off the other way. They've never been "helped" by having to de-tox here, because they never got "toxed" in the first place. Good for them, I say!
  2. 4 points
    Just for the record - I’ve mentioned this before - the definition for “hard hitting” as often associated with tough journalists who do their job - is uncompromisingly direct and honest, especially in revealing unpalatable facts...so forgive me if I don’t consider your dodging and relentless promotion of a charlatan like wierwille as “hard hitting”...and honestly in my humble opinion that’s about as hard hitting as a wet noodle Especially when you often display a flair for distorting facts or simply re-imagining an “alternate truth or facts, or history” - revisionist style ! . and I find this odd too - when you said - “I've been at this a very long time, I was lucky to get a LOT of facts that none knew here, and I was sheltered from a lot of the BS of the Corps.” I tend to think the stories, incidents, facts as told by former corps, staff, WOWs, etc on Grease Spot are truly hard hitting - they reveal the dark underbelly of the charlatan ! so I’m not sure if that is the BS you’re talking about?
  3. 4 points
    And on the topic of whether or not there has been manned (and womanned) space flight, moon landings, Mars rover landings, exploration of distant planets and other wondrous things, I disagree with your entire concept that NASA has been staging huge deceptions. Further, I find your claims in that regard so absurd that I have no intention of addressing the minutia. Your inference, "too much good, hard evidence... etc." Only reflects how you see the situation and bears no relation to how I view any of it.
  4. 3 points
    Good one, Mel. I know George. I'll let him know you cited him.
  5. 3 points
    Terrific posts Skyrider and T-bone! Thank you both for such self-reflective insight into the myriad, varied, yet quite profound, psycho-emotional factors which caused so many of the idealistic youth of the 60s to be prime “cult bait”. I was among them as were you, and all of those who spent any amount of time getting gobbled up by all the various “spiritual growth” programs offered by the cult. The doctrine they manufactured was certainly “self-supporting, self-propagating, and self-governing”, especially adept at manufacturing “spiritual needs” which only their manufactured doctrine could meet. Then, add in the guilt motivation of “Gawd has no hands but our hands blah blah blah yada yada yada in the name of Jesus Christ amen, with a little “what has this ministry cost YOU? How much have YOU given to God? Christ was willing to die! Are YOU??”, and, of course, a lot of fear of “not measuring up” to whatever shifting “spiritual priorities” were manufactured to maintain the ever-changing standards of “the prorgram(ming)”, moving the goal posts of that “spiritual maturity” which gawd required of his “douloi”, further and further away, requiring more and more $$ and “training” for never-ending programs living only on a “needs basis”. Not a cult, eh?? LOL! The “Art” of sociopathic, malignant, narcissistic behavior disorders ALWAYS includes “charming” and “engagingly manipulative” personality traits in those so afflicted. Such behavior is not only diagnostic, but also predictive of future pathological behavior as the patient progressively decompensates while the disease progresses, and goes untreated. This hindsight is 20/20 though. It is the result of my post-cult Nursing education and 25 years of practice. Remember the old adage, “ if only I knew now what I knew then, I woulda, shoulda, coulda.....”? I have learned through life experience that such thinking is self-defeating. It deals with “what IF” instead of “what IS”. That sabotages any productive self-reflection while rationalizing continued behavioral inaction as a “frustrating waste of time”. That inaction and rationalization freezes your identity at whatever stage you are willing to accept in order to relieve the frustration. Usually, that locks folks into the identity formation stage of human development. Normally, that stage occurs during the ages of 21-32. How old were YOU at the height of your TWIt involvement? In the Corpse? Way Home? WOW VET?Bet it was somewhere between age 18-32, unless you had a kid or 2. There are as many psychoemotional factors contributing to our being “cult bait” as there are individuals who unwittingly became cultists. IMO, posts such as Skyrider and T-bone have posted here, are the greatest weapons we here at the GSC have in our arsenal of FACTS and eyewitness accounts from honest, altruistic, and concerned ex-wayfers, of the other side of the TWIt stohree. TWIt and it’s offshoots hate this site because it exposes the purulent underbellies of each and all of their cults. The Truth only hurts those who stand against it! Selah...........peace.
  6. 3 points
    I've seen how some of them re invent their resumes for the benefit of employers who don't understand that "spiritual perception and awareness" is a really valuable skill. I'd love to hear their answers to interview questions like "what do you think your greatest weakness is?"....how do you make "I can be a hateful lying bastard if I don't like you or I think you've done something to question my authority" sound good? I lost track of what they Way offered as training. Back in my day it was Howard Allen or Harry Wierwille going on about keeping a ledger, writing lists, saving money, that kind of stuff. I learned some practical things that I was able to use later, but if I hadn't continued my education I'd be seriously ham strung. Public speaking and life coaching is big amongst ex-Wayfers from what I see - but unless someone has some real experience and a thick resume why would you want them teaching you that stuff? Anyhoo.
  7. 3 points
    Hey, new poster here. Am definitely still recovering from 14 years in the way, and 18 years with Geer followers. Is GREAT to find liars being named liars here, and to know that truth is being told personal-testimony-wise. Blessings to all!
  8. 3 points
  9. 3 points
    What experience with churches today exactly do you have? Aren't you one of the ones that isolated and studied PFAL collaterals for a decade plus not attending churches? In my experience the trinity is not really discussed, taught, or really dwelt on at all in churches today. Thus difficult to make it the biggest problem with churches today. Looking back from my experience, it looks more like VPW was looking for a bone to pick with mainstream Christianity because nobody was paying attention to his plagiarized material cobbled together class, or at best taking it and going back to their churches. VP had to do something to poison the well so they only could get water from him. Teachings on the trinity culminating in calling all the major heads of denominations "seed boys" or his personal slang for people sold out to the devil and living for the devil did the trick. Do the young hippies want to go back to church? No, not with seed men running the denominations.
  10. 3 points
    Did he preach and elevate himself (or live lavishly)? Did he preach Christ crucified, and risen from the dead? Were doors opened unto him? What then? Well, to continue on (in the words of Paul)... notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.
  11. 2 points
    Dear Mike: After reading your latest verbose fairytale ramblings, I have come to the conclusion that it is fruitless to discuss anything about dictor paul, TWIt, the Bible, or piffle with you ever again. To once again quote Thomas Paine, “To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead.” I’m happy to discuss anything else with you, share a glass of wine some time maybe......but NO MAS on anything Bible, Wierwille, TWIt, or piffle. Bette sums up how I feel about discussing any of the aforementioned “spiritual topics” with you. Never again! LOL! TY.......and......peace. https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10214804932574770&set=a.10214089284524016.1073741830.1169468755&
  12. 2 points
    Maybe a bit off topic, but I have something to say: There's been talk here about how to define just who "your spiritual leaders" are. I have a story which might shed some light on this: First, let us keep in mind Heb 4:12 "For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and IS a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart." From the above, we understand it's entirely possible to actually perceive what's going on in people's hearts and minds by understanding appropriate related scriptures. And that's still true --- even when they themselves may not be fully aware of it! This is a very important part of discerning spiritual situations. I once had a Twig Coordinator (name withheld) who wasn't very nice to me personally. It seems he never had much good to say of me --- if anything at all! But still, I put up with his often rudeness the best I could. While it's true I did much to help in the fellowship and conducted myself well, I never heard even one word of thanks, or "good job" from him. However, he was very quick to point out each and every fault he could find on me (like a fly on .... ). And many times it wasn't even justified, meaning that he was accusing me falsely! [This is one of the so-called 7 deadly sins from Prov 6:19 (#7) "and he that soweth discord among brethren.". It also relates with the 8th commandment --- from Ex 20:16 "Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour."] Anyway, one time I was reading in Galatians and something stuck out to me. I've bolded the part which struck a chord in my heart: Rom 13:1-3 "Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and THOU SHALT HAVE praise of the same:" According to this, true spiritual leaders are defined by God himself --- and NOT because someone has a corpse ring on his finger and sanction by some earthly ministry to be my leader! This is done in heaven --- and is in accordance with what the Word declares. (Remember Heb 4:12?) Simply because this guy didn't give me praise when it was warranted, it was revealed to my heart that he was NOT REALLY MY LEADER at all; for if he truly was, he would have conducted himself accordingly. So one day (when I had enough of his BS) I confronted him about denying me those "words of praise" when they were due. And he laughed at me. So I took him to the section in Romans 13 and showed it to him. And I told him that I no longer considered him my spiritual leader because of it. And he laughed me to scorn! And from then on, I made it a point "not to obey him in all things". Instead of putting up with his nonsense during fellowship, I constantly confronted him (in front of everyone) when he would accuse me falsely. In a short time, he became very frustrated! In fact, he got so upset that he actually left the area. (He even divorced his wife, quit the ministry all together --- and moved back to Louisiana where he was brought up!) And thus: The truth I had boldly declared became true upon earth, even as in heaven --- that he was no longer my leader, or for that matter, anyone's leader! (Actually, he never was anyway --- get it?) There are many similar parameters like this within the Word --- which truly define life's situations. And the more of them we notice, the wiser we shall be in evaluating the proper associations we should make among people --- and choices which will enhance our lives for the better.
  13. 2 points
    Yeah..........it is nauseatingly gut wrenching to look back at that cult exploitation with eyes wide open. Thankfully, I didn't stay in that cult for 40 years, or more............like many in that R&R group. Then, there are those like that new poster who stated that he was in twi for 14 years and a Geer group for 18 years!! These splinter groups take a slice of cultism, home-brew it........and just as manipulative. Dealing with tree suckers.......... "Sometimes a tree starts looking more like a shrub, with a bushy clump of young stems sprouting from the base or from a spot on the trunk. Those stems are called suckers, because they zap water and nutrients from the main tree. As suckers are unhealthy for trees and they are unsightly, it’s important to know how to eliminate them and when possible, how to prevent them in the first place." Same with way tree suckers........ Eliminate them........from your life Prevent them in the first place.....do not attend How many more "tree suckers" are going to sprout up from the R&R group? Five? Seven? Ten? It is ALL so sickening........ my wife is in contact with a corps grad who left twi some 20 years ago and she still gravitates to a splinter twig that meets twice a month. There are corps grads out there who STILL cleave to pseudo-pfal jargon and "teach twig" like it was 1974. Ugh.
  14. 2 points
    We who were young in the 1970s and 1980s in TWI know what love bombing is, don't we? We know/knew it as a sales technique for a religious multi-level marketing enterprise. But with the advent of the #MeToo movement, observant scholars and essayists started recognizing it as an insidious scheme to win the loyalty and affection of the object of one's sexual attraction. “Love bombing, unlike real love, is a self-centered, anxious pursuit, with the singular goal of acquiring someone because it boosts the bomber’s ego,” Craig Malkin, clinical psychologist and author of Rethinking Narcissism, told HuffPost. “It’s not about care or compassion or tenderness..."
  15. 2 points
    King Solomon apparently disagreed with your (il)logic. What do you do with Proverbs 11:14? "Where there is no guidance, a people falls, but in an abundance of counselors there is safety." ESV And what about Proverbs 16:18? "Pride goes before destruction, a haughty spirit before a fall." NIV Mike, I think the scriptures are calling BULL$hit on you. VeePee was as arrogant as they come and clearly, he eschewed wise counsel when he needed it most.
  16. 2 points
    Call me old fashion but I tend to think in courts of law, in business, in science, in history - the prevailing authority are the facts. As far as determining who are genuine spiritual leaders – and me being just your typical, dull, 5-senses oriented schlub, I guess I’d have to find out a few things. Like ask what religion do these supposed spiritual or religious leaders represent? Then review the basic tenets and sacred documents of that religion. Next look into the personal and professional life of that leader – the body of their work and the example they have set – looking to see if they have done the due diligence to actually achieve the status of being a genuine spiritual leader… …not like I have a whole lot of free time and would do that before the next ecclesiastic conference when clerics might get together to negotiate an official stance on whatever…I guess it has to do with the fact that I’ve been fooled before by one certain unabashed plagiarist, sexual predator and hypocrite…just sayin’.
  17. 2 points
    Nothing to say here, except: Such a shameful act to steal one's work and put your own name on it! Actually, I wanted you all to ENJOY something appropriate: (It's only about 3 minutes --- AND WELL WORTH IT!)
  18. 2 points
    Lately, here at Greasespot..........we've discussed quite a bit about retirement issues in regards to that Revival and Restoration group. Not only did twi's BOD keep moving the goal posts on what it meant to receive 1) emeritus status versus 2) retired status........rivenbark wanted (requested) to assign them to writing articles or work projects in their retirement years. In effect, she wanted to keep them at her beck and call for more twi-servitude. Martindale, on the other hand, was ousted from office and stripped of his corps/clergy titles........and receives a lifetime $65,000 pension. What gives? What is behind this incredible double standard? Couldn't this 65k-pension more aptly be described as a nondisclosure agreement.........hush-money? I mean, from everything we know and have seen from twi......it wasn't like martindale and twi penned a forward-looking pension plan when he took office in 1982. Hell no. This abrupt "pension agreement" was solidified under the auspices of legal counsel (in August 2000) days before his ousting. What gave martindale leverage of such an agreement? Threats to expose ....Rosalie's background and sexual proclivities? Threats to expose ....Wierwille's plagiarism, predation and debauchery? Threats to expose ....Twi's unethical financial practices and secret holdings? Or, call an impromptu corps meeting.....and tell the corps how they're being exploited? All of the above......... Whatever it was......martindale slithered out of headquarters in the dead of night. All questions regarding L. Craig Martindale were deemed anathema.......no one was allowed to ask. Not staffers. Not corps. Anyone who did ask was immediately confronted. [To find out who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.] So, today.......martindale collects his cult-pension (65K) and social security benefits (15k-17k?) to the tune of say $82,000 per year. Does he get other perks?.........secret credit card, travel perks, access to Camp Gunnison, healthcare plan, etc.?? Not too shabby.......for a guy who was ousted under a cloud of suspicion and sexual predation, eh? ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Open your homes, Open your refrigerators
  19. 2 points
    First and foremost -- you are not alone! As far as going to therapy, the good thing is that all you have to do is respond to the questions posed by the therapist. I realize you probably already know that, so I hope you don't mind that I said it. Also, here's the video Twinky mentioned (that I posted the other day in another forum on this website). The labels are different for other cults, but the template is essentially the same as what we were subjected to in twi. You are also far from alone in dealing with depression and anxiety. It can get better for you. We're on your side.
  20. 2 points
    Welcome to Grease Spot, Less Than – I am sorry to hear about the loss of your Dad and the tension with your Mom. Family conflicts can be messy and complicated all by themselves and even more so when you have a cult in the mix – I think it may be because a cult has its own set of weird interpersonal dynamics – which gets superimposed…injected…mixed in with whatever particular dysfunctionalities are already present in a family - every family has them - - there is no “perfect” or “normal” family. On the anxiety / depression thing you brought up – I can relate on how I use to believe if I worked at renewing my mind, praying, reading the Bible, etc. I would be over my depression. I suffered from it before TWI – then while in TWI it eventually got worse (please refer to my previous paragraph – mental health issues and a cult are never a good mix). I finally went to a psychiatrist – even though I was wondering the same thing as you “what would I actually talk about?”. My first session was more like stream of consciousness writing – I was flitting from thing to thing – going over various incidents, worries, fears, people in my life, failures, decisions I made, etc. His great words of wisdom were “you’ve got to stop beating yourself up over all that stuff.” There were a lot more helpful discussions of details in the following sessions, of course and I found a great book to help me manage depression - it’s Feeling Good: The New Mood Therapy by David Burns ...The book gets into cognitive distortions which are "exaggerated or irrational thought patterns that are believed to perpetuate the effects of psychopathological states, especially depression and anxiety"…funny thing though – while I was reading this book I began to realize that there were a lot of cognitive distortions built into the mindset that The Way International encourages its followers to have. I think that’s some of what my psychiatrist was addressing when he told me to stop beating myself up over things…yeah I sort of got the idea that some of the mental habits I learned in TWI actually made me my own worst enemy, if you can believe that. Hope to see you around, check out the About the Way forum you’ll probably find some stories in there of folks you can relate to. And let me offer you a cup of our finest cappuccino.
  21. 2 points
    chockfull, This is an insightful question, and I believe at the root of the issues brought up by the R&R folks. RFR so refuses to be meek to even consider someone else might be right and she is wrong, that it has caused tremendous schism within the ranks. Her reaction? Discard them, and anyone else who agrees with them. Absolutely. I was just recently having a discussion about this with a former wayer, and I brought up the point that it isn't us VS them, it is us AND them. As demonstrated in the bible, the body of Christ was all over the known world, and no one was making demands of them, trying to control everything they did. Knowledgeable believers were just going out and teaching them the Truth! And when Paul noticed a discrepancy, he went back to Jerusalem and had a big meeting with them to resolve it. All those in Jerusalem gladly looked at scripture, gladly shared perspectives, gladly listened to each other, and gladly found the answer together. That is the household working together, to do what the true head, Jesus Christ, wants. Not some fake head with a title.
  22. 2 points
    I think that's about the size of it, Socks. It's just business - to defame others, to blame them for everything that you don't like (on a whim or for some other reason). It isn't love, grace, mercy, forgiveness, or even bearing another's burden. One might wonder how these R&R signatories are faring in the real world without compelled followers or anyone who gives a shred of credence to what they're peddling; wonder if they have any regrets about how they oppressed those over whom they exercised "spiritual oversight," and how they castigated them when their "believing" seemingly failed to meet required standards; wonder if they're finding their leadership styles don't engender suitable awe in the secular workplace. But nobody should wonder too much!! Life's too short!!
  23. 2 points
    Thanks. If I may, I'm going to string together some thoughts I've had about that, not new by any means. Retirement may very well have been what caused this latest diaspora. That idea has been in the seeds of the Wheaties many of us were eating when we left years ago. At the core of any issues the Way has is how they view authority and make decisions. "Spiritual" leadership trumps everything else for them - common sense, practical issues, planning, a "multitude of counsel". Nothing spells really spirituality for them like going against the grain. It's in the DNA there. Even though they believe this "world is not my home, I'm just a - passing through", they work 24x7 non stop to earn their rewards. Once they convince someone that 1. their immediate well being depends on them doing what they tell them and 2. their eternal future "rewards" are at stake too....they're pretty much in their pocket. Organizationally, a single person can drive the whole thing into an iceberg and then blame everyone else from their lifeboat as the whole thing sinks. They think that's the right way to work, to run a business like the Way, to manage people, etc. etc. It does take a certain kind of person to embrace being right all the time and the burdens that comes with that. Someone else always has to be wrong, but it's never personal. It's just business. So odds are that at some point any one person is going to be in conflict with the decisions of the organization and will be unable to affect the outcome, let alone change the decision. Everyone in the Way has reveled in how smart they are, how much better they live with the "accuracy and integrity of God's Word" that they and they alone have. Yet they live like weasels fighting over the same garbage can, year after year. It speaks for itself, really.
  24. 2 points
    So among the current leadership of the Way lies the vast majority that have lived most of their lives or a significant portion of their lives in the small city ecosystem that exists around the Way International Headquarters at the Wierwille farm in New Knoxville Ohio. Far removed from the realities of life that most experience, such as a commute, a mortgage, a family (RFR), these leaders have developed in a vacuum environment. Like cultivating mushrooms, great care must be taken to keep foreign spores from invading your mushroom patch. This is the perfect environment for breeding a leader with zero empathy and compassion. Altruistic goals like "It Is Written" can still be portrayed loftily on walls around communes and on little geometrical carved pieces on clergies desks keeping them in tow while being functionally replaced with "It Is Position" being paramount. Chapter and verse can little by little be replaced with pithy quotes like published in "Lifelines" from leaders with lofty titles and puny hearts. Quotes can go on like "I remember meeting Rosalie once, and she told me this.....". The Research department can be replaced with a whited sepulchre Timothy statue and a re-worked BG Leonard class 3 times removed. And because snow on gaspumps - "we already have the truth we don't need more research". At any rate, not to shift gears too drastically in concept, recently I was listening to an old B-52's song called "My Own Private Idaho". It just struck me about some parallel lines of concept. So I thought I would post up the YouTube link and the lyrics and start up a discussion with y'alls. Peace. What do you think? Hoo-hoo-hoo-hoo-hoo, hoo-hoo-hoo-hoo Hoo-hoo-hoo-hoo-hoo You're living in your own Private Idaho Living in your own Private Idaho Underground like a wild potato Don't go on the patio Beware of the pool Blue bottomless pool It leads you straight, right throught the gate That opens on the pool You're living in your own Private Idaho You're living in your own Private Idaho Keep off the path, beware of the gate Watch out for signs that say "hidden driveways" Don't let the chlorine in your eyes Blind you to the awful surprise That's been waitin' for you at The bottom of the bottomless blue, blue, blue pool You're livin' in your own Private Idaho, Idaho You're out of control, the rivers that roll You fell into the water and down to Idaho Get out of that state Get out of the state you're in You better beware You're living in your own Private Idaho You're living in your own Private Idaho Keep off the patio (your own private Idaho) Keep off the path (your own private Idaho) The lawn may be green but you better not be seen Walkin' through a gate that leads you down Down to a pool fraught with danger It's a pool full of strangers Hey, you're living in your own Private Idaho Where do I go from here to a better state than this? Well Don't be blind to the big surprise Swimming round and round like the deadly hand Of a radium clock At the bottom Of the pool I-I-I-daho I-I-I-daho Woah-oh, woah-oh, woah-oh, oh Ah, ah, ah, ah Ah, ah, ah, ah Get out of that state Get out of that state You're living in your own Private Idaho Livin' in your own Private Idaho Songwriters: CINDY WILSON, FRED SCHNEIDER, KATE PIERSON, KEITH STRICKLAND, RICKY WILSON © Sony/ATV Music Publishing LLC
  25. 2 points
    Don't forget - Corps are there for a "lifetime of service." Only what was meant was, a lifetime of servitude. Why else do you suppose TWI pushed so much the doulos (bondservant) aspect? Jesus called his disciples "friends," not servants. We aren't required to be servants any more. Remember this? Eph 2:6 "And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with Him [Christ] in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus" and the teaching that when the work is done, then the person is seated (why Christ is seated at the right hand of God - because his work of redemption is complete. There are no slaves or servants in the heavenly places - their work is completed too. Why? Because of God's desire to show his graciousness to us. Read the beginning of Eph 4 again. Look at love, grace, mercy, kindness. Pretty good retirement scheme, huh? Even though Jesus is now seated at the right hand of God, however, he still works through his body, the church, to which he has committed the ministry of reconciliation. One has to suppose that Jesus must be working by choice if his work on earth is done. And we too can choose daily if we want to fulfill the ministry that has been assigned to us. With God, it's always "Choose ye this day ..." not "this day you are compelled ..."
  26. 2 points
    Reading posts here at gsc has helped greatly in processing things and in discerning the good from the bad and the ugly in the way organization. And I wrote the following: Well, am feeling as if I never had closure, never got to really say good-bye to a dear friend, the twi-with-a-lot-of-good that I got involved with in '74... And yes, am also saying good-bye to a dream, naive as it was, that a human organization or leader or Bible interpretation, could actually be a "rock of certainty in the ocean of uncertainty..." Guess it is time to do another round of mourning and letting go... And I want to keep moving ahead "fool-proofing" my life, and testing the spiritual waters for what I can believe and trust; which I think more and more is a still-alive-Jesus, Scripture minus any dogmatic closed system of interpretation, and ppl who pass character tests. (And I will continue recovering from trauma that occurred before, during, and after the way- a profitable [ad]venture.) Re: the idealistic dreams for finding rock-solid certainty and perfection on this inhabited earth... they are not for this Life, me thinks, but rather the Next. Duh!! And YAY!!
  27. 2 points
    When I first found the Cafe, annio, I spent so much time reading ... I didn't have internet at home, so stayed after work reading and reading. I was shocked, appalled, and ultimately freed from a lot of misery. Would leave very late - got locked in twice (was discovered at 10pm, where did the previous five hours go!?) - happily, one time the cleaners disturbed me, and the second time, the IT guy was fixing some things. Otherwise, I guess I'd have been very early for work the next day...! Carry on reading!
  28. 2 points
  29. 2 points
    Bizarre and sad in a way – I wonder if the local leadership even realizes how that would tend to disconnect them from the folks in their fellowship…I remember how excited I was to read through the entire Bible after taking the class - - and would “pester” my Twig coordinator with all these questions I had after reading the Old Testament and especially the Gospels…you know - - a lot of stuff not covered in the class or just skimmed over quickly... I was “encouraged” to keep reviewing the PFAL material…talk about a buzzkill on exploring the Christian faith. I liked what you said in your other post keying off of Don’t Worry’s zeroing in on “inspired”. It got me thinking…A poet or musician watches a beautiful sunset and they are somehow inspired to write something. We don’t say the sunset dictated what they should write. I think it’s the personal unique experience that filled them with the urge to write something – they felt something and had a creative response to it… so to with the biblical authors...instead of experiencing a sunset - - maybe it was a genuine epiphany - - some personal experience with God that drove folks to write about it. I especially get that feeling in reading the epistles of Paul - - his discourses on the law, the conscience, sin, redemption, the supremacy of Christ, etc. I believe they’re full of epiphanies – where Paul had enlightening realizations that enabled him to understand Old Testament theology from a new and deeper perspective.
  30. 2 points
    hey, don't feel so bad...currently my number is 6 6 6 .....yikes ! hopefully it's just a phase I'm going through
  31. 2 points
    I grew up in twi. Something never sat right with me. At 18 I bailed and never looked back. I just read “the cult that snapped and I was blown away that anyone would want to have anything to do with TWI. My parents and family friends stayed in, until just recently they got out when this R&R thing came about. I’m Leary of it, as are the parents. They’re ....ed bc they feel betrayed. I think they were blinded and just followed instead of thinking for themselves. I was told from someone in the know that Rico was going a different direction in Florida and that he “got revelation from God” that he should run the new ministry. We’ll see where this ends up. I have a great church I go to that doesn’t hound me if I miss a Sunday. It works for me so I think I’ll stick with that.
  32. 2 points
    The Holy Trinity 1. Treat people the way you would like them to treat you. 2. Help those in need when it's possible to do so. 3. Have fun while you can, 'cause fate's an awful thing.
  33. 2 points
    Bol, bingo!!!! I don't believe in the Trinity, but I don't dwell on it all day. If others want to believe it, that is their business. I am much more concerned about important things, like if people have jobs, food, and homes to abide in.
  34. 2 points
    We're not really trying to prove or disprove existence of anything in this thread. If many people over generations talk about it, that's good enough. It exists. Do the various views of trinity/non-trinity affect your views of the world and therefore your thoughts and behavior?
  35. 2 points
    Hey sky - you know I've been thinking for a while about the mixture of people in the Way throughout the years. I'm sure percentages probably fluctuated, but from my experience over time I've always seen a few categories: 1. Good pure-hearted Christians - the laity mostly. 2. Laity Leadership - a mixed bag. Some mushrooms and opportunists. Some genuine pure hearted Christians. 3. Corps - hate to say but mostly problematic. some good hearted just like other categories. Modeled after Marines (i.e. unspoken expected commitment levels and following of instructions) the Way Corps were mostly trained to kiss behind upwards and take frustrations out on those under authority downwards. That was what was modeled. Like the Freemasons (LOL) they had secret initiations, behavior, phrases. sorry that came into play on another thread LOL. the older ones initiate the younger ones in the Freemason rites - all the way up to the Grand Poobah of the Board of Directors. Councils of Pharisees. After reading up on Greasespot some of those Councils involved illegal and immoral activity. I personally only experienced the people playing politics stuff, not the darker tales when I was in. As I've read mostly in court documents because those who should have told me lied about it, there was an "initiated inner circle" that I never knew about. I'm sure that is only one of many. Where is or was God? The answer has to be in the individual hearts. I think the pure essence of God being love has to mean very specific individually, as well as if you are talking about collectively it has to be from the perspective of a whole body of Christ. The whole teaching of "household of God" is a doctrine of devils. I mean there's this group that my mom can't be in because she doesn't tithe to the Way. Thus she will be treated as slightly less than the homeless guy coming to fellowship. God or man? I mean dear lord baby Jesus on a pogo stick how does that make any d@mn sense at all? It makes about as much sense as Sharia law telling them to cut off little girls sex organs and then subject them to rape from relatives as part of God's idea of culture. So when you get man's mixture of law and organization in in my opinion you get such extreme anomalies like the Way we see here. So much exploitation. So little God.
  36. 2 points
  37. 2 points
    I'm glad you commented on the sunglasses, chock, because I was too busy watching Cindy rock that brunette 'do to give much thought to the dusty old creeps in the cornfield. The higher the hair, the closer to God.
  38. 2 points
    Well, for one, Hollywood isn't quite as closed of a society/subculture even though it may be reasonable to cite some strong common bonds between many people who would be considered part of Hollywood. In twi, I never saw or heard anyone voicing strong feelings about political views contrary to group norms. In Hollywood, while it may be commonly understood that most of "them" are politically liberal, you still have the James Woods and Jon Voights and (before he passed) Charleton Heston. Who speak/spoke out boldly and emphatically with starkly contrasting views and values. There's no question that the Branch Davidians were a cult. The Turpins (the 13 kids severely abused) are an extreme example of a closed social group and how tragic it can be. Also in contrast, the ISS (International Space Station) of course had/has the potential but it's not a closed social group. By virtue of the nature of "international" it has to have openness and communications norms (unwritten rules) and written rules to safeguard both the scientific work and the cooperation between nations. Back in the 1980s, when I was going to college, I learned in communications classes about group dynamics, specifically that groups small and large go through stages: Forming, storming, norming, performing. Groups start for a reason. There develops or exists common interests and goals. But before the group can accomplish its intended purpose, there will be conflict. Among those who stay in the group, they figure out what rules (written or not) that they can live with. Not everyone who's there at the beginning, stays through this stage, but for those who do, they then can accomplish their common objectives and goals. Unintended consequence comes in when there's no leadership that can wisely guide the group through those stages. Leadership in this context is an intangible concept, not necessarily always provided in the same way in all groups. Of course there's more to it, but that's the gist.
  39. 2 points
    They've picked up the worst traits of their father - pandering to power.
  40. 2 points
    The answer usually given has been cognitive dissonance. They've been lied to. They've accepted the lies. They live in a false reality. They now lie to themselves and have to protect that reality for the sake of sanity or a sense of stability. At this point, when they speak to others, constantly defending their little world, are they even able to recognize they are lying to others?
  41. 2 points
    GoldStar, your theory that the "nations" in Rev 22 is referring to non-Christians is just as much speculation as my speculation that it is referring to gentiles or the 12 tribes of Israel. Btw, your case is NOT solid.
  42. 2 points
    But then again, there's this... about Billy Graham.
  43. 2 points
    Of course they'll bless the people that'll find them. Like Saint Vic blessed the authors he plaigerized. Like Saint Vic blessed the women he forced himself on.
  44. 2 points
    Welcome to Grease Spot, Annio !!! I swear my eyes are getting worse…I had to put on my reading glasses cuz I thought your name was Amino - - as in amino acids which are important in nutrition – i.e. the process of obtaining food for health and growth…that’s cool… Then I put my glasses on and saw your name is Annio…so I look that up and find Annio da Viterbo, an Italian Dominican Friar, scholar and historian…now I know you can’t be him cuz he be daid since 1502…unless you’re here to tell us the dead ARE alive now… So where do we go from here? Maybe combining the two is the key…so I look forward to your input on Grease Spot, from your personal history of TWI, G33r and beyond…lots of food for thought…and healing and growth for all… I usually offer a cup of cappuccino but thought I'd change it up a little…how about amaretto spiked coffee with some ice cream in honor of Italian Dominican Friars
  45. 2 points
    The notion that Job was guilty of "negative believing" is Wierwillian fantasy, utterly absent from the Book of Job unless you want to make the wailing cries of a man who lost his family into doctrine.
  46. 2 points
    Hey there, annio. Did you know you name means "no" in Korean? (아 니 요) That's some poetic justice. "Just say NO to TWI"
  47. 2 points
    Well, ya see, guys, here's how it works...Stealing a car is illegal. If you get caught, ya got big problems. BUT (the obligatory big but) if you are stealing the car so you can get to the PFAL class, it's okay. Just ask any judge. They'll tell ya.
  48. 2 points
    Yeah the sarcastically redefined title of “doctor “ according to his plagiaristic abuse - is “doctor-it-up” wierwille .... Dat’s riiiiight....just look it up in “The Lexicon for Folks Who are Really Really Really Disgusted with wierwille’s Bull$hit” doctor-it-up: To alter, and perhaps falsify, something in an attempt to improve his credibility.
  49. 2 points
    Great posts, Skyrider and ChockFull ! I know it’s been said – and my common sense would agree – no one ever knowingly joins a cult… I got involved in ’74, and like you said it was a sweet time of a simple Christian lifestyle for me… what might be a good metaphor for my 12 years of involvement with TWI is the boiling frog fable ...Early on I was not aware of the growing threat behind the Christian mask…but as time went on – the cult’s subtle powers of manipulation and exploitation extended... or should I say intruded further and further into my life…and it wasn’t until I started questioning things in ’86 that I began to suspect there might be a mask - - that something was covering the real problem or problems. I am so thankful there’s a place like Grease Spot - where unmasking a cult is a group effort !
  50. 2 points
    Testimonials: I’m glad I came back. I really feel like I’m part of a big household now and never want to leave again. It's like being under house arrest, only better ! Lordy Pete (Snowball Pete’s 2nd cousin - twice removed - aka 2 time mark-and-avoid recipient, but is now doing penance on grounds crew at Headquarters)