Jump to content
GreaseSpot Cafe
  • Announcements

    • GT

      Log in changes   08/07/2016

      With the upgrade there is no longer separate login ids and display names.  Your login ID is now your display name.


Popular Content

Showing content with the highest reputation since 04/28/2018 in all areas

  1. 6 points
    How presumptuous of "them." "Our days are too precious to squander on the negatives." "Thank God, Paul did not spend time engaging in word battles about concerns that were decades old." First of all, they have NO idea how I (we) have spent our days (years) since exiting twi. Some here, left around 1987......others of us in the 1990s, and some left around 2008. Ten years, twenty years, thirty years..........they have NO clue as to what we've done to rebuild our lives, help our families, ministered to others, and helped our communities. THEY LIVE IN A BOX..... a box that wierwille built. They think that "living the Word" is regurgitating stolen pfal material at every meeting and doing those deadpan manifestations. They have accepted wierwille's deceptive lies........WITHOUT a thorough, critical examination of them from a-z. And yet, they scoff at those of us who do. Of course, they balk at our time spent here at GSC........ we've called them out for their hypocrisy, arrogance and manner of life. Some of them have spent 45-50 years in a cult ....... and refuse to come clean. So, they hide. They hide by mocking our "word battles." They hide by staying in the shadows. They hide by silence. So now....... they attempt to re-build (cough, cough) ANOTHER cult in the image of the mother cult. Same structure, same centralization, same teachings, same manifestations, etc...... only this time it will be genuine. LOL. What's that Einstein meaning of insanity? Doing the SAME THING over and over expecting different results. Moneyhands, Forts, Horneys......... ALL ex-corpse coordinators who were in charge of the clone factories, ie the corps "training." Sheesh. What a damn, pathetic ploy it was..... and they played right into it. If they had an ounce of critical thinking, then they'd realize that we are speaking the truth here at GSC. They have wasted DECADES trying to mimic the wizard behind the curtain......and smirk at those of us who've engaged in real, honest discussions to undo the burdens and set the captives free. How presumptuous of them to define how I spend my time. Heck, after this post......I will spend the rest of my day doing other things!! They know not of what they speak. And notice, that only that certain "designators" of THEIR group will respond to your questions. What a pathetic, defensive response to your questions. They will not engage, because it amplifies THEIR decades of cult-servitude that does not, and did not, honor God. That's why they put up a shield of defense. Maybe they'll figure it out some day.......or maybe they won't.
  2. 5 points
    Regarding cognitive dissonance - while in the process of extricating myself from TWI in 1988, I experienced a strange process going on in my mind. I was starting to think original thoughts - thoughts that were contrary to my TWI programmed thoughts. Sometimes I would hear Craig yelling against my thoughts, yelling things I had heard at mealtimes in residence. So I did the thing with the line down the middle of the page. Left side - my thought, right side - TWI rebuttal. Back and forth, back and forth. Like having two brains. As time went by, my own thoughts predominated and the yelling rebuttals receded. Many years later, my brain belongs to me. And TWI is a distant far off strange thing I was in....... the farther back in time it gets, the stranger it seems.
  3. 4 points
    Hi Greasespotters! Allow me to clue you in on a FACT: dictor Paul couldn’t write his way through high school! At his very best, he was capable of writing at an 8th grade level. Remember all those times he talked about his older sisters Sevilla and Lydia, “reading him the riot act” about his horrible school performance?? He bragged about it all the time in a blatant attempt to cover-up the FACT that he was flunking out of high school by the 9th grade. As a matter of fact, the principal had considered not allowing him to return for 10th grade unless his parents could control his behavior. Ya see, dic was known as the town bully, the NK Biff of Back To The Future fame. Everybody else was Marty McFly! He would speed through town on his motorcycle doing tricks and making lots of noise, intimidating pedestrians and being an all around annoying idiot. Sevilla and Lydia were often credited with “straightening me [dictor] out”, thereby preparing him for his earth shatteringly scholarly and revelatory career as the “greatest MOG since The Apostle Paul”! Dic pulled himself together enough to graduate with a low C grade average, and with a lengthy letter of excuses from Dr. Kunst, the local minister at the Evangelical and Reformed Church in NK (and graduate of Lakeland himself), and lots of $$ from papa Adolph, dic managed to slip his way into the world renowned Lakeland Mission House College in Sheboygan, WI! There, he invented the hook shot in basketball, never played professional basketball, secretly married his hometown sweetheart, and barged his way through Mission House like John Blutarski did through Faber College in Animal House! LOL! ALL the early books “written” by dic prior to JCING were transcribed from teachings dic gave on Sunday nights, church study nights in Van Wert, “Spiritual 40 Club” events, and Chimes Hour Youth Caravan broadcasts. ALL OF THEM! I mentioned that dic at his most eloquent with a pen, rose to an average 8th grade level, so writing anything coherent, credible, and scholarly, was absolutely out of the question. So, the great teacher recorded everything he taught and would have Rhoda, then eventually, Donna Randall, Bernita Jess, and Peter J. Wade, along with David Anderson, to transcribe every teaching dic wanted included in his “package” of plagiarized platitudes and “research”. So, once J.E. Stiles, the real author of RTHST, led him into tongues, and dic bought Stiles’ book, “Receiving The Holy Spirit”, and used it to teach his new research on the “gift of tongues”, dic got on a roll. J.E. made it easy. He had already written the book! The next step was taking B.G.’s “The Gifts of the Spirit” class up in Canada. Dictor took it the first time by himself, alone, basically barging his way into the opening session late, while BG was playing his violin before starting. Vic got home and immediately started teaching Dottie, Donnie, Karen, Mal and Jan George, and a few others. Then, the next summer, dic dragged Dotsie and Donnie with him to Canada and they took the class. That was the last time Vic credited BG with ANYTHING in TWI. BG had a big syllabus with tons of scripture references and his definitions of the 9 “gifts”, “keys to walking in the spirit”, the various names of devil spirits, “current” and in the Bible with every single bible record used in dic’s Advanced Class along with the teaching notes Dotsie, and Donnie took. Many parts of that syllabus became the syllabus for “Interpretation of Toungues and Prophecy” (TIP, & INT class) and The Advanced class, plagiarized literally verbatim. Dic was teaching his own “Power For Abundant Living” classes now. Mimeographed limited syllabi and 3 hour sessions. As he was used to since Chimes Hour Youth Caravan, he had everything recorded, and then Rhoda would transcribe all the tapes. Then, she and Dotsie, and Karen would edit for spelling and coherence, and dictor would determine the content. Later, as people with greater technical and intellectual abilities came along, (Donna Randall, Peter Wade, Walter Cummins, David Anderson, Bernita Jess, Ken Klug, John Somerville, Bishop Pillai, Lamsa) more textual and MS evidence was brought to the fore and given the thumbs up or down by dic. Again, everything recorded and transcribed! This is how the orange book, the blue book, the green book, and the PFAL book itself were written. When I first took the class, there were no books! There was the syllabus, Christians Should Be Propsperous in booklet form, Are The Dead Alive Now (also softback), Studies in Human Suffering (on the Book of Job) and 56 separate little pamphlets called “the collaterals”, which were eventually compiled into the first three volumes of the “Studies In Abundant Living” volumes, blue, green, and orange. During my first in-Rez year with the 4th corpse, dic held numerous research nights in the BRC with corpse and the research dept staff, which at that time was Walter Cummins, Donna Randall, Bernita Jess, and dictor as the head cheese and chief revelatory, to work on the final edition of the new JCING. Everybody was allowed to offer their thoughts, opinions, scriptural references, questions, counterpoints. They lasted 3-4 hours with a 1/2 hr break in the middle. They were really fun. But, the final writing was done as it had always been done since Van Wert. That’s why people notice the big difference in all the published works AFTER JCING. JCOP was the first book that was NOT based solely on transcripts of dic’s teachings. As a matter of fact, the body of the contents as well as the vast majority of it were NOT contributed by dictor at all! I can honestly say that the only thing dictor wrote in that book was the dedication! LOL! That’s enough for now. I know there’s a thread somewhere in which Penworks and I basically describe dictor’s “research” and “writing” techniques and prowess. Can’t remember the name of it, or when it was. But, IIRC, it pretty much covers the entire process of “writing” piffle and TWIt books. It might also be called “The Way: Living in Lies”! Or, “How To Plagiarize Your Way To Financial Independence: Building A Fundamentalist Cult”. LOL!................peace y’all!
  4. 4 points
    Hi Taxidev! You posted this: “As I indicated earlier, I have no idea what it's like to live through this level of atrocities. I just pray that you can all become peaceful about it, whether you actually forgive them or not. At least to have peace in yourselves.” Why TY Taxidev. Don’t pray for my peace! In the words of a dear old friend of mine from the 4th Corpse who is no longer living, “I got Peace like a river! Like a river baby!” You sound like one of the 2 responders you quoted on an earlier post. LOL! I was “peaceful about it” the instant I turned off of wierwille road onto Highway 29 and got the hell outta there on December 14, 1986! And, my peace has grown greater DAILY since then regardless of what “trials and tribulations” I may have undergone since that day. That is true partly because, DAILY I KNOW WITHOUT ANY DOUBT, that I did the “rightest” thing I ever did in my life for Jesus Christ. The ones you need to pray for are the anti-Christ pimps, whose “virtues” you seem to extol. First, pray they stop LYING and genuinely REPENT before God, Jesus Christ, and the Church, AFTER they have apologized to and sought forgiveness from their VICTIMS. VICTIMS!! Victims of TWIt “clergy”! Do YOU get that? Or, are you too busy praying for my peacefulness? I’LL FORGIVE THEM WHEN THEY HONESTLY REPENT! THEY HAVE YET TO DO SO! Do you get that Taxidev?? This has never been about vindictiveness Taxidev. This has ALWAYS been about JUSTICE! God’s justice, and HE IS THE GOD OF JUSTICE! I just pray that YOU can see beyond their seared consciences and the fair words and fancy speeches they dump all over those they lie in wait to deceive, whether YOU actually believe them or not. At least to understand GOD’S JUSTICE! Maybe that will open YOUR eyes to their habitual hubris, lies, and rule of injustice? At least to have a sense of what God’s Justice means. We’ll see, Taxidev.....we’ll see. Meanwhile, please don’t waste any more of your prayer time for me. I got peace like a river baby!!!..................peace.
  5. 4 points
    Yeah.............totally predictable. Self-appointed sleaze.........that want to sit on an elevated perch and rule over others. They just quit pimping for the twit-cult....and wanted to start their own action, in another neighborhood. Good riddance. That's why that R&R thread is SO, DAMN INSTRUCTIVE........."meet the new boss, same as the old boss." LOL
  6. 3 points
    Hey, Moynihan............... If wierwille had lived longer........maybe we would have seen him led away in handcuffs (like Harvey Weinstein).
  7. 3 points
    I really should check in here more often. This thread answers some questions I've had about some vague Facebook posts from friends still in Way World. Now I know why they suddenly seemed to grow some proverbial balls/ovaries... they didn't suddenly realize TWI was rotten from the root. They just had another place they could go. So many people who I used to idolize for being such strong, faithful believers. They were good people, wanting to do good and serve God. But they were devoid of critical thinking, and easily led. Now they just went with another pack of wolves pretending to be shepherds.
  8. 3 points
    Not sure if this will fly, but how about the Shrew Crew?
  9. 3 points
    Are you kidding? A) People with personal experience of lcm remember him as abrasive, domineering and foul-mouthed. Parents said their kids learned to curse from mandatory exposure to his tirades. Some of them were kicked out by him, and others got fed up and left because of him. B) The chicks in charge of twi (we need a nickname for the 3 chicks running the show now) painted lcm as the big villain when he was in, and made it look like their hands were clean, no matter how complicit they were in everything. He was set up to take the blame for everything THEY did as well as everything HE did. C) Leaders who were around dealing with lcm found him difficult to deal with at best, and abrasive and domineering at worst. None of them had positive memories of him overall. Even when he was "at his best", he insisted on pushing his way into the spotlight and making sure his capricious whims were followed no matter how impractical that was. D) vpw knew to turn on the charm and fake being a nice guy. vpw knew to fake liking the leaders so long as he got his own way with them. vpw was older and had the mystique he constructed, that he was on another level than the leaders that he dealt with (for the most part; a few never quite bought into it- hi, Ralph!) E) People who have fantasies that twi was nearly perfect when they were young and naive credit vpw for the idyllic paradise of their fantasies- and need a villain to explain what went wrong. In their case, they blame lcm for freaking EVERYTHING. F) lcm lacks academic credentials, and the skill to plagiarize the way vpw did. So, he has nothing of his own to bring to the table. He presented his own versions of vpw's stuff, but in his urge to be different, he managed to construct inferior material to graft on, and it showed. So, the old stuff is seen a superior to the lcm stuff. So, in short, at best, lcm is the designated villain, and at worst, the plague that adulterated vpw's stuff and ruined what was good to begin with. So, lcm counts as zero when he doesn't count as a negative number.
  10. 3 points
    Whited sepulchre
  11. 3 points
    That's a good recap, DWBH, thank you. So much of what I've seen as well as heard from others says that the Moneyhands are a very damaged couple who are not interested in helping much less "restoring" anyone unless it serves their own purposes. Taxiperson, you're on the right track. Remember, in the "old" days everyone used to say that The Way was....Jesus Christ, and that we were followers of the Way, of Jesus Christ, not people. That has a practical application and requires you and I actually do it, and understand that Jesus Christ was and IS the Living Logos, and it is through that Word that we understand and have a perspective of God. God magnified "His Word" above His own name, which puts the Living Word as the thing that we must live to see and follow. Men and women will always want you to follow THEM, as an aid, a means to better do that....their "ministries", so called, if given by God are in SERVICE to God's people and will always magnify Jesus Christ, making His Way clearer. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word, indeed....and it's that "faith of Jesus Christ" which is complete and full and all that we need to rely on and identify with. Yes, thank God we have a written record to read and learn from - but we must always remember that the Way of Christ is straight, simple and easily intreated, not burdensome though we may choose to bear the burdens of others as Christ has our own - it's loving, forgiving and only requires that we subject ourselves to God's forgiveness, knowing that we need it - we need the broken ends of our lives brought that together and "restored" - so we can live for God. The Way was so subtle replacing the simplicity in Christ with the complexities of it's own religion, born out of The Way Corps program which ultimately drilled down into every fellowship The Way held for many years. Ultimately in order to be true to God, each person that came out of the Corps program had to divest it'self from the authority of The Way in order to make any use of what they'd learned. I for one did learn a great deal and I do not understate the value of the experiences I had, including of course the mistakes I myself made and those of others that affected me. It's far outweighed by what I gained. This in no way values bad over good, error over truth or ungodliness over true faith. However everything I am today is the sum total of what I have been and done up to this point, and it will never be the perfection that God promises through eternal life wholness, in Christ. Still I persist! There's really nothing else to do but that. PEACE!!
  12. 3 points
    That wasn't hateful at all. You must not get around messageboards that much! For the internet, that was nothing, and for conversation, it wouldn't have been considered "hateful", It's also not "presumptuous" at all because these people's lives are well-known at the general level- and lots of people here knew them personally, so that's not all guesswork but conclusions drawn from the evidence at hand. We don't know what's in their minds and hearts- but we know what they did, when they did it, what they didn't do, and when they chose to refrain from speaking or acting. Based on that, you know what matters to a person. If there's some hidden reflection that didn't impact their actions, it didn't matter MUCH to them, and so I'm ok not counting it as significant. We don't have "an ax to grind"- but we can call people on what we see them say and do. And if you think this is "spewing venom", you need to get around a bit more. Heck, we can show you some posts from some vpw defenders and apologists, archived around here. The difference is dramatic.
  13. 3 points
    I know less than that - only what those here have posted. Also I looked at the Facebook group again and the website domain they registered. It seems that there are many crossover members of that group that are actively in the Way also. I'm not the searcher of hearts but I'm not going to ignore the elevated tone they took in their posting on that Facebook group quoted here, nor their elevation of themselves in stature and position, nor their response to queries made to them through you. That is clear evident fruit that Jesus instructs me to know people by. They have no fruit worthy of any of my attention - their little pretend spiritual coup takeover of the Way failed, which was designed to draw followers away anyway not really designed to Revive and Restore. Their expectations were that the Board of Pharisees would immediately see the light and change the Way over to now being ruled by democracy different than it had been governed since inception? That's not something a reasonable person would expect. So it is just a front for a coup - leaving, making the biggest splash and impact, drawing the most followers away so their kids can have a safe haven in a new cult. I doubt they will honestly disclose anything of the sort in their pious platitudes and Sunday teachings and sweeping of old things under carpets.
  14. 3 points
    Maintaining accountability ... Yes, everyone was accountable to some supposed higher level - branch, limb, etc - but the BoT (as it was when I was around), or BoD nowadays, didn't consider itself accountabe to anyone or anything. They accounted for none of their actions, for none of the consequences of any words or "doctrine," and not for the money given to them in trust. I love that churches I know of here have a proper structure and no one is left unaccountable. That also means that leaders, vicars, etc, aren't left feeling either Godlike in power, nor, conversely, unsupported by those they serve. There's a lot to be said for accountability and orderliness.
  15. 3 points
    The irony in R&R's response is that this is the exact response that Rosie and the Board of Pharisees had to their R&R letter they circulated around a year ago trying to drum up sympathy for. Then they (The Way) marked and avoided the letter senders. More current clear literal evidence that R&R acts currently how they were trained for decades. But hey I'm sure they don't care what we think. All they really need is a group of dolts so they can form their own "Board of Dolts". And skyrider and DWBH - yeah pretty much. Your recent posts express much of my viewpoint as well.
  16. 3 points
    "Please don't waste another moment worrying about that random [person] (me) you met years ago. Our days are too precious to squander on the negatives. I hold no ill will against anyone and I pray that someday you may feel the same."" So, show up, listen to the teaching, bring new people, and don't be stingy whenever the collection plate comes around, and stop questioning whether or not I'm qualified to do it right after decades of doing it wrong-by my own confession. I said ONCE that I've woken up-that should be the end of the questioning. "Thank God, Paul did not spend time engaging in word battles about concerns that were decades old." Those idiots, so dismissive of genuine concerns. They hurt people ACROSS THE DECADES, and dismiss it ALL as "DECADES OLD" because nobody's stepping forward whom they hurt last year. Do they really think Paul never had to look into the faces of crowds of Christians and deal with seeing people whose friends and family he had jailed or killed? No, they don't really think that- because they refuse to consider the subject at all. It's a glib DISMISSAL and a discussion CLOSER. And very convenient for those who IMMEDIATELY want to go from 'selling the Kool-Aid" to "selling the new Cristal LIte and disparaging the sellers of the Kool-Aid." This belongs in a Dr Seuss video, not a so-called Christian group. (Those with "stars upon thars" removed them and IMMEDIATELY proclaimed that was better just to make themselves different- after DECADES of saying those with the stars were better individuals.) It has to be a kid's video, since no adult would think such a gambit would work on people, right?
  17. 3 points
    Thanks Taxidev. Appreciate your summary of the two responses you’ve received thus far. Thanks for whatever additions may come in the future. My thoughts? How completely presumptuous of responder #2 to tell you how Paul spent his time! Looks like their Bible has a 30 day statute of limitations against those who commit criminal acts against the Body of Christ and its members in particular! Guess they need to read Matt 18 and I&II Timothy again and again. How convenient to tell us that Paul denied his past and only looked on the things ahead. That’s THEIR excuse, not Paul’s. Dismissing their criminal behavior to mere “concerns that were decades old” worthy of only meaningless “word battles” instead of further investigation into the crimes which caused suicides, deaths, psychiatric and emotional breakdowns, dissolution of marriages, destruction of innocent souls, numerous abortions, separations of families, rampant sexual battery, abuse, and rape, is evilly self-serving, and avoidance behavior. It exemplifies their inbred cultic hubris, thinking the “mastery” of rightly-dividing the word gave them the right to do whatever they wanted whenever they wanted to whomever they wanted, as long as they “lived” the verse, “Happy is the man who condemneth not himself in that which he alloweth”. It’s all about THEM, not their victims. Truth be damned, experience dictates. Responder #1 gives the classic Pharisaic hypocritical condescending and smirking reply. “Don’t waste your time” on little ole me that you met years ago! I am so spiritually yuuuge now, that those mere human concerns are meaningless to me. “I have crucified MY flesh, how ‘bout you?” (sic!). Now that i’m such a spiritual giant, my time is far too precious to waste on unbelieving possessos like you, who just want to rehash negatives all the time! You’re like so spiritually immature! As opposed to my personal tremendous spiritual bulk! Obviously YOU haven’t renewed YOUR mind! Harumpppfff! I am so yuuuuge “spiritually” that I, The great OZ, hold no ill will against you pathetic sheep, and I am so god-like that I pray YOU can get as spiritually yuuuuge as me, and that YOU’LL finally grow up enough some day, to stop holding grudges and be spiritually yuuuuge like me! LOL! What self-serving, condescending, irrational bullshit. IMO both replies are self-serving, arrogant, prideful put-downs of the questioner. They never deny the facts behind what you imply, and instead gaslight you into thinking you are some how spiritually inept, or worse, “thinking evil” for even considering (as Eve did in the garden with Satan’s words) that there could be anything wrong with their prayshuss minus-tray! How dare YOU doubt and question my leadership! Thanks again Taxidev. Appreciate the info. Looking forward to hearing about any further responses you might receive.
  18. 3 points
    Indeed Taxidev. Sorry they let you down. Thanks for trying. For those of us “old timers” still hanging around the GSC, this was totally predictable. Not saying, “I told ya so.” in any way. Simply stating a fact that we also have come to learn “the hard way” over the last 18 years. It always reminds me of that scene in “The Godfather”, when Clemenza is teaching Michael how to make a “good sauce”. This was right after Clemenza had overseen the hit of “Paulie”, the driver who called in sick the day the Don got shot. As he’s stirring the sauce, Sonny asks, “Where’s Paulie?” Clemenza responds, “Oh Paulie! We won’t be seein’ him no more!”. LOL! I fear you have been secretly Paulie’d, Taxidev, and you’ve been secretly “marked and avoided”!! Congratulations! They won’t be seein’ YOU no more. YOU committed treason against “the family”! YOU asked questions IN PUBLIC, about the family “business” these pimps used to run. How dare YOU question the righteous perfection of those who have chosen to RULE OVER YOU? How dare YOU harbor any misgivings about their “truthfulness” in days past, and their “faithfulness to DO da Woid”? WHO the hell are YOU?? Are you even Corpse??? LOL! How dare YOU question their past behavior, crimes, and lies! Where were YOU in 1972??? Where’s Alice?? “Oh Taxidev! We won’t be seein’ him no more!”.....The “not-really leadership” of Removal and Relocation Christian Liars, Inc., since 1942! Do as I say, and don’t question what I do! Ignore the revisionist TWIt history we “teach” you. Believe all our lies if you want to grow ”spurchly” and not be a Greasespot by midnight! Resistance is futile! We are the “spiritual” Borg. Obey, listen, or leave. So, far Taxidev, it seems you are learning the same curriculum we did back in the daze! Godspeed brother! And...........peace.
  19. 3 points
    Yes, I remember something vaguely like that. And "Ephesians - the breakfast of champions." Or some such. But --- want some kool-aid with that? How about: "PFAL - the sedative for all your worries"? Or: "PFAL - for the pi$$ that passes all understanding"?
  20. 3 points
    The cats, of course, think that 4am is playtime, not bedtime. So, having spent till 3.15am Street Pastoring, I now find myself Cat Pastoring.
  21. 2 points
    Peggy, a dear friend and fellowship coordinator in Stillwater, OK for Rod and Jo Mart!ndale, passed away suddenly of heart complications in early September of 1997. At the time, I was the limb coordinator of Oklahoma and was jolted by this news. Death, and the sting of it, is most always inconvenient and ushers in a plethora of rapid decisions. On one level.......there was the ministry side of things. Peggy had specifically come to Oklahoma in 1994 from Wisconsin at the request of her region coordinator. She was told that her loving support and abilities were needed in Stillwater to help the Martindales. That was Peggy......the heart of serving others. But on another level.......there was her family, her brother. Peggy's parents were both deceased, but there was a brother in Florida. Problem was: according to twi, this brother was blacklisted with that dastardly label.......mark and avoid. So, since Peggy had been the twig coordinator for Rod and Jo, it didn't take but a few hours for this news to reach Craig Martindale. And then, subsequently.....the brother in Florida phones Bob Moynihan about this funeral. Whereupon Bob, the Florida Limb guy calls me and informs me that this brother SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED to attend his sister's funeral. Well, I disagreed. Here And, now.............some 20 years later, I'm sure damn glad he did. I would NOT want it laid "at my doorstep" that I would not permit a bereaved brother to attend his sister's funeral. In my mind, it gave him great comfort and healing to be there for her, his sister. RIP, Peggy. And, Bob..............now, some 20 years later, YOU are mark and avoid. Thankful, that I didn't heed your "counsel" back then. What's up with that pathetic command, Bob? You guys and your "lockstep loyalty" to serve wierwille/twi? You might want to RE-think that and lots of other things.
  22. 2 points
    As i understand, the leadership of rnr consider the current state of affairs in twi (led by rosie n donna) wrong on many levels, but the "package" put together by wierwolf is solid. The leadership of rnr lack a central focus, and are figuring out how to move onwards from twi. Many of them didnt expect to get marked and avoided and are scrambling. They basically follow the same model as twi, they even do phone hookups. It seems to me that they are trying to pick up the pieces but dont understand how deeply the damage of an abusive cult has affected them. If you dont recognize the problem you cant fix it. They dont see the problems in wierwille theology, they dont see that selling classes isnt working or that perhaps webex is better than a live telephone hookup.
  23. 2 points
    Get ready to watch the A&E special program next week on Cults and Extreme Belief. Janja Lalich, Phd is interviewed. She enthusiastically read and blurbed my memoir, Undertow, before I published it, and with this televised interview, she will help more people understand the recruitment process. It airs on Monday, May 28th at 10 pm, then continues at its regular time on Tuesday, May 29th at 10 pm. Here she is in a promo clip: I posted it on my Facebook page You can "like" the A&E page on Facebook. Cults and Extreme Belief About Undertow: “A magnificently written life story that sheds light on the enticing ways of cult recruitment and indoctrination ... An important and must-read book—more gripping than a mystery, Undertow will sweep you away.”—Janja Lalich, PhD. Professor Emerita of Sociology at California State University, Chico, author of Bounded Choice: True Believers and Charismatic Cults
  24. 2 points
    They’re all (offshoots) cut from the same rotten fabric of vp’s stolen, phoney “ministry”. Including “revival and restoration”. At the core of what they want to do is get back to the “good ol’ days” of the way. Jesus Christ has no place in their lives except at the closing of a prayer. He’s absent, ‘cause they took his place. I’ve known most of them for decades. 1st hand experience. They’ve done irreparable damage to countless numbers of men, women, and children. Blasphemed God and the Body of Christ. Shameful, despicable, false teachers. Time is running out for repentance. I pray they do.
  25. 2 points
    How is this not another Way splinter? Are they working with, or outside of the Christian body around the local areas where they live? The last I looked their website was still protected by a password. And they keep in touch by "an app"????? Is the name of the app secret too? IMO it really has nothing to do with Ed or Jacque H0rney b1tching me out in the past 30 years ago or anything similar. Although I interacted with most of the leadership I have not spoken directly with them in many years. It's not that they can't change. It's that there is zero evidence of them evidencing any fruit of change. The first chapter of I John pretty much sums up what is going on there. They refuse to dialog with anyone regarding their past, certainly haven't come here and apologize for any they've wronged, and there have been many egregious wrongs. Their response to us questioning them about past corruption and what they are doing to change it is either "Hi Ralph" or some other such one sentence nonsense talking about whether or not Paul worried about things 30 years old. They are moving ahead in exactly the same fashion that they did when they were in the Way. They just got kicked out of the Way. And they still don't change. A group of elites teaching and being in charge and not even answering the questions of the peons that a year ago they were trying to drum up support to have other Coirpse sign their stupid letter. They still have the same nose-in-the-air elitist attitude that they have had for the past 30 plus years. I can smell it from third hand accounts of their responses. I don't even need to talk to them. Go back and read their soliloquy about how the Corpse needs to be run by a democracy. Then look at how they are running their splinter. Not by a democracy. You are drawing a parallel with your life "going back to stealing bikes and selling drugs". What you don't see is this group of splinter Pharisees never left their supposed Christian lifestyle of "stealing bikes and selling drugs". Oh, except they were enjoying a secret swingers club that nobody else could know about or participate in. After they were born again, ran fellowships, witnessed to people, ran classes, went in the Way Corpse, were leaders, were ordained. This is not a genuine movement of God. And if there is some good-hearted honest person in the midst of that cr@pola, then they are getting fooled. Just like I got fooled by VPW, LCM, RFR not seeing their true colors until much much later. Nobody is condemning you to living a life as a drug dealer. But we're not saying you should start a YouTube channel, file a 501c, and splinter off of Jesus body one more time either. Behind locked doors because you're afraid of criticism. Cult logic leaves you boxed in between two choices neither of which involves God.
  26. 2 points
    Thank you for this post, Skyrider. You sum up what the overall atmosphere was at that time, and it had a little "utopian" feel to it for sure. I was at HQ in the 2nd Corps, 1971 - 1973. We felt invincible for God. We felt our goal was what God wanted, "The Word Over the World." But it was a man's goal, an egotistical, ridiculous idea ... to put it mildly. You mention local ministers at that time. Recently, I got a note from a current minister in New Knoxville, Ohio. He gave me permission to publish it on my blog, so here's the link if you're interested https://charleneedge.com/echo-in-new-knoxville-ohio-minister-reads-undertow/
  27. 2 points
    Chock, here in DC, libraries are still very, very popular, as centers of learning. I used to live in Tompkins County, NY. I think Forbes Magazine(?) claimed a few months ago, that people in Ithaca, were the best read people in the USA. Although I haven't lived in the Ithaca area, for decades, I still read a lot. I can go anywhere, with a book. Books make me think; sometimes they make me weep, or laugh.
  28. 2 points
    I agree wholeheartedly with the essence of your post. However, I believe that you may have softened LCM's persona with your euphemistic description of him as "abrasive, domineering and foul-mouthed." I believe you left out "extremely emotionally and sexually abusive."
  29. 2 points
    Interesting in light of a recent booted poster. https://www.livescience.com/62506-flat-earth-convention.html Despite early claims, from as far back as HG Wells' "world brain" essays in 1936, that a worldwide shared resource of knowledge such as the internet would create peace, harmony and a common interpretation of reality, it appears that quite the opposite has happened. With the increased voice afforded by social media, knowledge has been increasingly decentralized, and competing narratives have emerged.
  30. 2 points
    And as a follow up to WordWolf’s line of thought: you can’t teach an old TWI fool new dogma.
  31. 2 points
    I still prefer actual books over electronic books - although I do think the convenience and space-saving factors of e-books are a huge plus...for fiction, general literature, stuff on writing, music, drawing, philosophy, history and such I will get on Kindle (my wife is a big proponent of going to the library-and I’ll probably get into that when I retire) ...but certain books on art, illustrated books on science , history, warfare as well as select commentaries and systematic theologies I prefer them in hardback editions. While I do think the Internet is a rich resource of information like how-to videos - I don’t get into the social media thing - don’t have Facebook, Twitter, etc...I get it what Chockfull was saying - some folks get online and come across like they’ve figured out the true interpretation of the Bible, or the inside scoop on whatever it is they’re talking about. I mostly look up movie reviews, Wikipedia plot spoilers (so I’m ahead of the game when I go to a show - darn my slow processor ) and of course keep up on what’s happening in the news - both kinds - real and fake
  32. 2 points
    Bullinger wrote "the Rich Man and Lazarus: an Intermediate State?" and "King Saul and the Witch of Endor: Did the Prophet Samuel Rise at Her Bidding?" Bullinger only wrote 2 works with titles in the form of questions. vpw's book "Are the Dead Alive Now?" contains their contents. It's the only vpw book whose title is in the form of a question. That's so blatant that the only "rebuttal" I ever heard on that wasn't "no, he didn't rip off their contents entirely" nor "no, there was original material as well as that" but rather criticism I pointed out that the question format was copied in addition to the contents! Legally, vpw could have reprinted both books, bound them as one, added a preface all his own, added an intermission all his own, then added an epilogue all his own. However, that would have shown all the work was Bullinger's- which the law and principled people insist is important but was the opposite of what vpw wanted.
  33. 2 points
    Are The Dead Alive Now, as well as the entire “seed-boy” crap came from Bullinger’s article in his Research Journal, “Of Things To Come”, entitled “The Witch of Endor.....”, along with a BG’s teachings on devil spirits in his Gifts of the Spirit class. Dictor had all 23 volumes of “Of Things To Come”! Donna Randall showed me dic’s personal research library. It was in a wall safe in his office. I had access to them a couple of times, but that didn’t last after I asked some questions that Moggie-Pooh couldn’t answer. Dic stole almost all of Bullinger’s works, then sold them in the bookstore to validate that his “research” was original, and that Bullinger proved it. He even said once, “ I believe Bullinger would have gotten to Jesus Christ is not God had he lived long enough.” LOL! Same thing with RTHST. After even just a brief investigation of Bullinger writings with dictor’s “writings”, it becomes almost immediately obvious, that there are LENGTHY sections of many Bullinger works which are lifted almost verbatim by dic in many of his “writings”, but most definitely in his so-called “research”, and ALL the corpse night teachings on Romans, Ephesians, Thessalonians, and I&II Timothy. BTW, da forehead did the same thing with his “Lies & Deception” book too. The entire basis of his 8 great statements is lifted from appendices in Bullinger’s Companion Bible. Like faddah-in-da-woid, like son! LOL!
  34. 2 points
    Is this something?
  35. 2 points
    Da-Nile ain't just a river in Egypt.
  36. 2 points
    Truth is indeed stranger than fiction, Info! The evolution from hetero to bisexuality and homosexuality was gradual, imho. Before entering the 4th corpse, Donna M. (henceforth Belladonna) was a staff secretary for a year at HQ. At that time, Donna Randall served as both Research Secretary, and Secretary to the president, and Rhoda Wierwille was still dictor’s “Personal Secretary”. Donna, was in the secretarial “pool” which was coordinated by Donna Randall and dictor himself. Claudette Royal was also in that Secretarial pool at HQ prior to her entering the 4th corpse with the rest of us in July, 1973. Donna had been sexually active with dictor during that year she was on staff prior to her in-Rez career. Donna was also sexually active with dictor during a trip of his to NC during our interim year in NC. Rosie was also quite active sexually with various in-Rez corpse men from early on in her corpse career as well, including turns with dictor and Donnie. I have no personal knowledge of Marcia Faulk’s personal sexual preferences during that time. Remember, all the women I mentioned were single, unmarried, and therefore, in dictor’s perverted mind, “property of the King” as dictor said they were in the Old T., referring to Saul, David, Solomon and then the long line of the Kings of Judah and Benjamin in the south and the Kings of the 10 northern tribes, united under the name Israel. Which, when critically examined put EVERY king of Israel in the immediate and untenable position of breaking 3 or 4 of the 10 Commandments (most notably, “Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor’s wife.”, and, “Thou shalt not commit adultery.”) including, in most cases, Thou shalt not lie, and Thou shalt not commit murder! That meant if dic’s “rightly-dividing” was indeed right, every king of Israel should have been put to death! This kind of promiscuity by Belladonna and Rosie continued, and Belladonna eventually married da forehead, and Rosie kept using her charms in all the right spaces, which unfortunately, included a bunch of married men in prominent “leadership” positions at HQ. Faulk (5th corpse) married Bill Greene (8th corpse) and bounced around various jobs at HQ mostly being an attachment-at-the-hip to Belladonna, as she was in Greenville, NC, 1974. The breakthrough into lesbianism between Belladonna and Rosie progressed during the insane years 1981-1986. Dic had made his choice of successor, da forehead, then the insanity of the Outreach Weeks, 40th Anniversary Weekend in every Region, culminating in Living Victoriously, June 1982, corpse week and ROA, August 1982, and the biggy....The 40th Anniversary Celebration Weekend, during which dic officially retired and “passed the mantle” to King Okie. Rosie was the co-coordinator of these events along with Bob Winegarner, and myself and the Region Coordinators for the events “on da field”. So, Rosie and Belladonna (now the future “First Lady”!) were spending more and more time together and, apparently were spotted a number of times being physically intimate with one another. Their relationship became more intense and obvious after the implosion of POOP’n’Geer, and the following “Fog Years” of 1986-1990. The incredible Bacchus-orgy type of culture da forehead built during his spirits in the athlete mania contributed powerfully to Belladonna’s physical rejection of her “king” into the eager arms of Rosie the Riveter. The TWIt reign of terror commenced in 1990 and ran all the way through 2000, when da forehead finally forced his own dismissal, and was banished to Toledo, divorced by Belladonna and Rosie, with great joy I’m sure. During that time, the Greene’s were big shots behind the walls of Zion and the troika of Greenville was reborn, providing the comfort of old time friendship and the sedation of nostalgia for las tres amigas. Remember also, that during Okie’s reign of terror, the misogyny and its accompanying widespread sexual abuse and promiscuity were running rampant in NK at every level of their stratified cult society and in every age group! It was the Sodom and Gomrroah of the “Grace Administration” in the time of the prevailing word! What a cruel and horrific “Christian” tragedy.
  37. 2 points
    Speaking for myself, I think it's wonderful you're so blessed locally. For now. Based on the usual pattern, I'm "waiting for the other shoe to drop." In twi/extwi, it's COMMON for a local group to start out all blessed, then s-l-o-w-l-y (or not so gradually) change in small steps as more control is passed up the ladder, until the person wakes up one morning and finds they're a money-generating cog in a profit-driven machine. So, I'd keep an eye out for the first few steps.
  38. 2 points
    TY Taxiedev. Your honesty and humility are admired and respected by me. Hopefully your continued reading, along with interaction and input from you, will afford us all the continued reasonable communication which promotes peace and understanding, and mutual education.
  39. 2 points
    Well, in just two pages of posts, I have watched the bodies pile up around me, and there seems to be more waiting in the wings. It pains me to think about all this having gone on in the name of Christian love. I'm just glad I was nowhere near it. I'm sure you met some wonderful people along the way, but obviously so many evil people also. I can only say I've met a few that were off the wall, but many wonderful ones. What an education in history this has been for me. Like reading the true accounts of slavery, and the true accounts of Columbus in the Caribbean. The only reason to learn about history is to avoid repeating the bad parts. It seems to me that I have nothing more to contribute to this thread, but I will gladly continue to read what you all post, even if I'm not so glad about what I'm reading. I won't be commenting, but I might ask questions.
  40. 2 points
    Times like this, evaluating a repeating pattern of "sincerity" and later broken promises, I am reminded of a song (a tango) by Celedonio Nicanor Compagnucci, "You've Cheated Me Again," ("Argentine tango, the sad song of the abandoned man.") "You've made a thousand promises of a future without fetter. That everything would change, that our love would be better. You made great plans, that any other love would be absurd. Ours would be the best ever heard, this time you'd keep your word. A word sticks in my throat: 'Why? Why?' If nothing has changed, Why did I give you my vote?"
  41. 2 points
    Hahahahaha! You think I have an ax to grind? I'm puzzled why you would think this. Here's the skinny: These guys have been doing this stuff for 40-50 years. Now, as the sun is starting to fade on us all, they have realized they need to see some kind of return on all that time and effort they've invested. That's not hate , presumption or venom. It's a simple observation. You don't need to know what's going on in someone's heart or mind to understand that reflecting on past efforts is something we all do, TWI and non-TWI alike. I do agree with you, though...spewing venom is seldom a good thing.
  42. 2 points
    Okay, seems you want to go there, so let's talk about Paul for a sec or two. Consider this, if you will. As for touching the righteousness which is in the law, he declared (see Phil.3:6) that he was blameless. That was before his experience on the road to Damascus. But get this... how much value did he place on that afterwards? Well, I suppose how ever much dung is worth. (Phil.3:8.) Now... which of these modern day, look-at-me-I'm-like-Paul folks do you suppose can honestly say that they were (in their former days) blameless (by any standard or stretch of the imagination), and/or is currently willing (much less disposed) to count much (if any) of their former life as dung? Kindly let me know what your thoughts are after you chew that over a little...
  43. 2 points
    In the spirit of truthful envy – I’ve been thinking about starting an offshoot myself…actually, it’s an offshoot OF myself…well, technically it’s an offshoot of an offshoot of an offshoot of myself…and honestly there’s probably a few more “offshoot of an offshoot” in there cuz it’s hard keeping track of how many times I’ve changed my mind on things since I left The Way International…and it’s not about the money, folks…I don’t care if you send me your old golf clubs, used cars or mint condition LPs – it’s definitely not just about the money, so get off my case why dontcha ! I have produced an 115 page paper with well over 115 words (that might be a little over a word and some fraction of a word per page) describing my position while I wrote it (I was seated most of the time – though there were a few attempts at automatic writing while I struggled to assume the down-and-out-in-Rome-City Yoga position ) and it’s yours for free – no purchase necessary – just a small minimum required donation…anything really …like old golf clubs, used cars, mint condition LPs, or a 70’s series Fender Jazz Bass…ya know, whatever – I’m not picky…to receive your copy of “Continue Being Fake” just write me “The Leecher”.
  44. 2 points
    I fielded a couple questions recently on this group and their communications. I only know what I've seen online but note that it's Moynihan who says - 'nothing happens without leadership, and when we have great leadership things happen greatly'.... Given the last few decades and what they've being doing, I'd have to agree - it appears obvious that In the absence of anything close to "great" leadership in the Way ... nothing great has happened for many many years, unless you count leaving being great. In which case, now that they've left, perhaps...."great leadership"....might develop? I won't develop that idea further but this is why you can't trust what so many people say. They just don't really think about what they're saying but sometimes the truth comes out anyway... Also the woman who emphasizes that the 'self governing, self propagating' aspect of the home fellowship has been "slowly taken away" is showing how blind they really are and have been. It was not slow, and for practical purposes once the 'Way Tree' was installed as a functional organizational tool that's been gone, going back to the early 70's. I would say that since Dr. Wierwille really hit the road looking to promote his newly filmed PFAL class, the organizational model of close corporate level control over everything has been in place. Certainly since the late 70's it's been impossible for any smaller ministry units like "twigs" to be truly self governing unless it's in strict "cooperation with the next higher level" of leadership. It wasn't slow by these peoples' timeline, some of them didn't even know about the Way until the 80's......edits were made to the pamphlet "First Century Church in the Twentieth" when it it went into the New Dynamic Church "The Green Book" that left out key parts of the early Acts model of growth. All classes related to the "Way Tree" and ministry outreach hammered the point of maintaining accountability to what the New Knoxville "leadership" said and did at "The Root". Allegiance to the "man of God" was promoted and the idea that you HAD to stand with him and the Way to be a "true believer" became essential long before Craig got a hold of it. (that's why Craig was able to step so easily into being a self serving Hitleresque President, the frame work already existed to keep all control within the BOT's, he just exercised it to a greater degree across all parts of the Way. ) Likewise for years and years there was a growing development of process and procedure for local fellowships to support the Way Nash by giving TO them and supporting them in all ways but little to no development of process and procedure for the Way Nash Trunk/Root level organizations BACK to support local fellowships - except in products and merchandise. The products of the ministry were books, classes, tapes and visits and assignment of Way leaders and teachers to live in areas where the ministry had work. But there was no real tangible connection to allow for the local expanding churches/twigs in a state to have autonomy amongst themselves. Everyone followed the same ministry calendar of events, parallel classes and concurrent meetings, plus attendance at all larger state and multi state meetings, reviews f the Way Magazine being done week after week, the SNS teachings being reviewed in twigs week after week - the only way or reason a local fellowship coordinator could be assured of exercising self governance was to just not tell his "next higher" level of leadership, to hide it. Which oddly was something even Dr. Wierwille advised regarding certain things....! Slowly taken away, indeed...............ah, kids, lotta things, but you gotta see it in the original to really appreciate it. It was hardly "slow" - it was actually rather quick, starting in about 1971 and moving forward from there.
  45. 2 points
    In case we needed any more proof that they STILL spout the wierwille-doctrine ........ the "Thank God, Paul" is the knee-jerk response. What about Jesus Christ? Remember him...... the author and finisher of our faith. Were we called to be Paulians?
  46. 2 points
    They don't WANT to engage in serious discussion. They want to preach AT him, then pass the collection plate around. Expecting the leopard to change his spots?
  47. 2 points
    My take-away from the response: They made yet another plea to "sweep it under the carpet" and rolled out the time-worn cliche of Biblical icon equivalence. They really need a fresher approach if they want to engage in serious discussion.
  48. 2 points
    One poster mentioned a discussion 2 years before the ANNOUNCED split about plans for a split. For us regulars, this really comes as no shock. The whole "we don't know where this will go" thing was mere posturing. They were already out the door when they made their first announcement and broadcast and stuff.
  49. 2 points
    Please note the disclaimer in fine print: if you do not pay your exorcist bill you could get re-possessed
  50. 2 points
    I knew this woman, but not well. Like most of us, she was idealistic, kind, and good intentioned. So why did she stay so long? IMO, time spent in the cult is relative to a person's needs. What strikes me is how a person misses or denies or misinterprets warning signs. I suppose part of it has to do with survival. Like her, I did that for years, too, especially the misinterpreting or rationalizing of warning signs. Psychologists tell us it's because there's a need in a person to cling to the status quo ... a variety of reasons are clear, i.e. fear of loss of community, loss of certainty, loss of feeling secure about "knowing the truth." I think we all can relate. It's a need so great that admitting what we're doing or believing or giving our loyalty to is bad, or a fraud, or a con, is just too much. We'd crack. Don't we all remember when we "woke up" and how hard that was to admit we had been duped or abused or stolen from? For some of us we nearly did crack up. Some I know have spent time in mental health hospitals, or are in serious therapy, or on heavy medication, or have lost themselves to alcohol or drugs. Or suicide. Breaking up is hard to do. Some people had a casual involvement in TWI. Others were encased in it like in an airtight plastic bag. Breaking free is HARD. I think it's a miracle any of us are here and able to compose a complete sentence. Maybe I should speak for myself, but truly, for those of us who were sold out for so long and gave so much, creating another life post-TWI has been VERY hard work and if it weren't for many good people (many are here on GSC), healing love, education, and time, I can't imagine what would have become of me... So If you ever read this, Melanie, STAY STRONG and breathe deep. It's possible to heal a little every day with love, education, and time. And I ditto what Skyrider said, that Offshoot groups formed by former WAY leaders are not a good option because in general they repeat the patterns from TWI. Besides, bottom line is that the Bible is always open to interpretation by man. The notion of "the accuracy of The Word" is just that, just a notion. No one has it. It can't be had. But that doesn't mean you cannot find valuable things in the Bible. Just question what people tell you it "means." Cheers, Penworks a.k.a. Charlene Lamy (Bishop) Edge I can be reached at http://charleneedge.com/Contact