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  1. 4 points
    Yessss!!! And dont forget
  2. 4 points
    Kathy, we would all agree with you in that sentiment. In fact, almost any life is better than the drudgery and crushing guilt of TWI.
  3. 4 points
    Hi Greasespotters! Dr. Rawlings birthed all 3 of our babies at St. Margaret's Hospital in Hammond, IN. 1979, 1982, and 1984. Our first was the first baby delivered in the pre-runner to what was to become the Birthing Center named after her at St. Margaret's. We never left the labor room for the delivery room. We did it all right there in the bed in the labor room. Doc was there the whole time for each of our births. We were immediately discharged when Lori and babies were rested, and spent a week at Dr. Rawlins' House after each birth. Seymour and Gloria Leven went up to Hammond when they graduated from the family corpse to run a "Medical WOW" twig. There were several corpse grads who worked with her as RNs, Nursing Assistants, a Nurse Midwife, receptionists, secretaries, etc. Mark and Ann Carli (6th corpse grads) were also a part of that medical thang, as Mark was at La Salle Univ in Valparaiso, IN, finishing up his PhD in Clinical Psychology. He was working closely with Seymour in the pre-cursor of what eventually became Couselling Services of OH, in Troy, OH from 1983-1985. They were doing "covert" professional psychiatric and psychological counseling for mostly the wives of "top leadership" in TWIt, many of whom were suffering from Clinical Depression, Bipolar Disorders, and a lot of Anxiety/Panic Attack associated with Major Depressive disorders. I began referring corpse spouses from the Midwest Region first, and then from all over the US Twunk. The support for this whole medical outreach and counseling thing was Don Wierwille, the ONLY genuinely EDUCATED member ever on the TWIt BOT until Rose-a-lie became VP as part of the settlement of the Allen Lawsuit. When they shitcanned da Forehead, Rosie became prez, and Don died of lung cancer in 2001, I think. That's how Rosie became the big Kahuna of TWIt. The "secularization" of TWIt's "spiritual counseling" by "a Jew shrink", approved and supported by Don, and the reliance upon "sense knowledge degrees and certificates" instead of Da woid and da corpse principles dictor taught us(sic!), "contributed greatly" to the "entire US Twunk" being seduced by the dark side, according to Crazy Chris and POP. But, what really happened was that, the epidemic of mental illness and acute depressive disorders widespread amongst the way corpse worldwide, was exposed AND documented. More importantly it was PROTECTED from TWIt interference because it was founded and run by REAL Doctors, and legally protected patient privacy, and privileged information from being communicated back to the BOTs. But, counseling services of OH digresses from the topic here. Doc Rawlins was a beloved "hero" in the Natural Childbirth "movement" as well as one of the most influential folks in the formation and expansion of the La Leche League. When she retired, she received the third of three large jars, each filled with 10,000 beebees representing the just over 30,000 childbirths she had attended in her career! That's a fairly good-sized city! She was well-known Nationally and Internationally for her pioneering work in natural childbirth and breastfeeding, and her birthing center. She was a titan in her field. She was a friend. As to why she was so dedicated to TWIt'n'Vic: Her firstborn child, Craig, was very much like his mother. Extremely bright, personable, and dedicated. His plan was to go to Medical School for OB/GYN and join his Mom in her very busy practice. But, he decided to go WOW first. He was the first in the Rawlins family to take piffle and he was the "star" of the family, as well as the apple of his mother's eye. Everybody loved him. Craig received special permission from dictor to visit his mom while he was on the WOW field. I forget what the occasion was, but on that drive back to Hammond, IN, Craig was killed in a car crash. Carolyn was devastated, as was her entire family, and everyone who had known Craig. Carolyn almost lost it, but dictor brought her to HQ, helped with the memorial and funeral (all at TWIt expense) and hooked her up with Seymour and Gloria who were in-Rez at Rome City. She spent lots of time there at Kneipp Springs, and her closeness to Seymour/Gloria as well as with Dr. Chris and Mary Boulange, who were also in-residence family corpse, was a critical support for her. This was where the Medical Outreach Area in Hammond idea was birthed and staffed. Carolyn was extremely indebted to dictor for all he did for her and her family during the biggest crisis and hurt of her life. And, she loved the Levens as "equals". She so loved Rome City, that when she retired, she bought a cabin on Sylvan Lake in RC, where she fished and ministered to wayfers from all over the world. She loved her cigarettes and her scotch-and-milk, and she was usually humming a tune all day. She loved life. And, since dictor was so integral in helping her accept and survive the traumatic death of her son, and TWIt gave her the perfect place to teach and continue her pioneering work, she was faithful to TWIt until Dotsie was institutionalized by her son Don, in St.Mary's. Regarding her "New Life" class, she was totally qualified, one of the tops in her field, to teach that. She was so very knowledgable and her personable engaging teaching style made her an entertaining lecturer. She, like everyone else in TWIt, was a shiny, valuable, reputable distraction from dic's con. She was worth special attention and patronization because she had $$, great reputation and acknowledgement in her profession, and she loved her Lord Jesus Christ. I am so glad I can tell my kids that a genuine legend attended each of their births. Their very first external touch was from a truly great lady. She will be long-remembered and sorely missed. Thanks for reading.
  4. 4 points
    some of this stuff reminds me of Isaiah 5:20 Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter…NIV Kudos to DWBH and to all the other courageous souls who dared to confront those consummate hypocrites! I picked the above 3 quotes because they resonated with me at some deep level – it got me to think back on when we started on the long journey that led us further and further away from TWI – my closest companions on this journey were my wife and a nervous feeling of not knowing where we would end up…and maybe it’s something some other folks can relate to also. In the aftermath of the reading of passing of a patriarch – I was as frustrated as everyone else…looking to top leadership with the hope that they would get their heads out of their a$$ and tell us what to do…what we all should do to straighten everything out…to get us back to the simple task of “moving the word”…But that type of thinking was still addressing the problem in the very limited language of way-speak. And to be honest – in the midst of all that, and being fresh out of corps training and trying to maintain some semblance of enthusiasm for TWI and “The Word” during our field assignment was probably one of the toughest challenges at the time. But whatever hopes I had of the ministry somehow fixing itself – were dwindling…not just from the stonewalling of top leadership but as we became more and more aware of their abject hypocrisy. I think that’s when it hit me – I’ve been had by a bunch of phonies! In my opinion it’s the hypocrisy - more than anything else – that just totally knocks the wind out of your sails. I remember as a kid cruising down the road, perched on the handlebars of my friend's bike, with pigeon toed footing on the front axle – when my right foot pointed inward too much - got caught in the spokes – we flipped and I landed flat on my back – I could not breath and it freaked me out…as Rosanne Rosanna Dana would say “I thought I was gonna die!” Hey any corps out there still standing with TWI, wanna read something interesting? Check out Matthew 23 and compare that with how things are done in TWI…could Jesus Christ’s words be applicable today? What if he was speaking directly to TWI’s leadership today: Woe to you, teachers of the Bible, you hypocrites! You make an outward show of righteous living. But you have neglected the more important matters of the Bible - like justice, mercy, faithfulness, and honesty. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting to set an example of living a morally sound and upright life. You blind guides! You may be very scrupulous in studying every word of the Bible yet you show very little concern for the real intent of the Bible.
  5. 4 points
    Thanks to DWBH and the rest for their bravery. We had already exited, but we were small fish...others we knew and cared for made the decision to leave because of that letter. Those were scary times. Guess you had to be there...
  6. 4 points
    Thanks for giving the context of that letter's impact, DWBH. I happened to be at HQ when you guys sent it out. I did not see a copy then. I hadn't seen it until 10 minutes ago. When you wrote it, I had already resigned from the Research Department (all that drama is in Undertow) and I was sewing draperies in the OSC at the other end of the hall. I was also trying to gain some sanity by attending college classes at OSU in Lima and packing up my stuff to get the hell away from HQ that August. I wish you and I had had a chance to talk then ... I know how hard it is for anyone who wasn't around at that time to grasp how chaotic the whole shebang was. Over the years I've tried to paint the picture for former Wayfers and for outsiders who never heard of TWI. The best analogy I have so far is to say it was like a tornado came through a small town and demolished a lot of it. A few survivors tried to rebuild using the same kind of original materials, but some of the people who closely examined the situation discovered that the original materials were rotten to begin with. They decided that the best use of their time and energy was to rebuild other kinds of houses elsewhere.
  7. 4 points
    OMG..............every time I think that I've heard the full extent of wierwille's demented pathologies and depravity, THERE IS MORE. I agree that this CF&S class was the "most stupid" [perverted] of all of dictor's classes.........for me, it was nauseating and repulsive. At that juncture in my life, I wanted to learn about the true fabric of marriage, a husband and wife, and a Christian family in relationship to honoring God. Even back then, my young mind was throwing up RED FLAGS........the "vibe" of the intent of this class seemed off. I couldn't discern at the time why it rubbed me wrong, but I remember how I felt sitting in CF&S the first time. And yes, it was a pre-requisite for taking the advanced class. Wierwille didn't take the high road in teaching CF&S............he took the low road. Even that whole "virtuous woman" segment seemed out of place in this class......as if it were a "thank you" to mrs. wierwille for sitting next to wierwille to mask his sexual perversions and marginalized mog-hood. The dutiful wife, and Tick-the-German Shorthair, were present for the magician.....er, teacher to use sleight of hand right before our eyes while the sexual perversity drops thru the hidden stage floor.
  8. 4 points
    Hi Greasespotters! My first ever exposure to this most stupid of all dictor's "classes", was at The Way of NY CF&S Family Camp on Shelter Island in 1973. Back in those days, CFS was ONLY taught live by dic'n'Dotsie. There were NO tapes of any kind. I was on the Pilot Counsel for 2 out of of the 4 weeks TWIt NY rented the camp. Boob MoneyHands was the limp Coordinator, and he was there for all 4 weeks, except for the day he came to Huntington, NY to officiate at my first wedding. That's why I was only there for 2 weeks. The second two were taken up by wedding and honeymoon. Then right into the 4th corpse. The "class" was just dic up there rambling on about HIS particular views and peccadilloes, with Dotsie at his side to blush and giggle as necessary. Not much Bible at all really. The "highlights", so to speak, were 1) the original sin teaching that said the original sin was masturbation, 2)Proverbs 31 teaching on the "virtuous woman", 3) The slang terminology Sessions, and 4) The showing of T-Bone's favorite beastiality porn video. The rest was all Nite Owls and Drambuie-fueled ramblings about whatever dictor's delusions were bringing forth. Really annoying! During that porn vid session (which was a late morning session just before lunch), almost every one of the older adults.....22 of them....walked out and actually left the camp! That night's Nite Owl was a drunken rant from dic on how chicken "the adults" were and that he'd NEVER trust any one of them to lead anything, let alone a Twig! He was screaming and yelling like a man possessed (pun intended)! After all, there were no people over 40 there to yell back! They had all left that afternoon after lunch! He went on about whatever pissed him off. I was never happier to get out of a place to "do something" than I was that day and night. There were attempts to make some of the teachings available to grads, but only two ever made it out.....the original sin, and Proverbs 31. Nobody any where had the aura or adulation to do anything with this crazy material other than dic and a reluctant Dotsie. So, during the first week of December, 1973, dic attempted a black and white version of CFS, which he recorded live in his office and living room of " the president's home". We, the in-rez corpse (3rd & 4th) and staff were the live audience (read victims). Chairs were packed in as tightly as possible, and many of us sat in the "balcony" which was above the living room and dic's office. It of course, was the big buzz at HQ. Well, it was a typical dic show.....incomprehensible Drambuie rants, and some of the dumbest, most hoakey hillbilly, farmboy "sex advice" and "guidance" you have never heard before again in your life! LOL! After the "class" was finished, over the holidays, while the corpses were on Christmas vacation, which is what it was still called back then before the horrendous "Ho-Ho Relo", the decision was made that the new CFS class was just "not spiritually right" to send out, so the CFS remained live only with Vic there using some of the B&W tapes from 12/73 so he could drink and molest more women. The dog vid was axed. And, that's where CFS remained for several years, until dic tried yet again, including Doc Rawlins teaching all the sessions on sex and reproduction, childbirth, and neonatal care. I don't know whatever happened to those tapes, but they were excellent. So good in fact, that dic eventually deep-sixed them because Doc Rawlings was so excellent, knowledgeable, and humbly personable, that she made dic look like the dumb jerk he was! I left in 12/86, so I have no clue what happened with CF&S after that. Knowing what I know of TWIt's devolution from that point forward, I can only imagine how perverse, manupiulative, and destructive it became with Da Forehead at the helm! In the 70s as the "advanced studies classes" were mandated as pre-requisites for the AC, (Renewed Mind, The Way Tree, Witnessing and Undershepherding, Dealing With The Adversary), CF&S was initially included by trying to use the 12/73 B&W video. It never worked, and quickly, CF&S was removed from the pre-requisite advanced studies classes. Basically, imo, CF&S was used as a recruiting tool for dic's "inner sanctum" sycophants willing to adopt his perversions and peccadilloes in order to sex and drink-it-up with all the "deep believers" who were steeped in the knowledge of grace, mercy, and the most necessary lockbox. When "from birth to the corpse" essays were required, the abuse and manipulation of those writing them was a piece of cake. And, THAT is what dic and his corpse coordinators at every "Root Locale" did with them too! The whole thing was a journey to the dark side of malignant, paranoid, narcissism combined with the sexual perversions of misogynistic moggies, who were lowlife, dumbass, backwoods perverts.Thanjs for reading.
  9. 4 points
    I think, after all this time, I really don't care any more. What does WAP stand for anyway - Waste of Abundance and Personality? Find a decent church, get to know the people there, and see what they DO, not just what they say.
  10. 3 points
    Well..........it looks like I missed Oldskool's post in August concerning this face-plant group. Therefore, my comments are in red.......inserted for translation.
  11. 3 points
    I was a very early reader, a very early writer - way before my first school. In later years, I trained as a lawyer. Specifically, as a litigation lawyer. I started in general practice, but the firm I was with had a specialty in personal injury, defending on behalf of insurance company clients. I prepared court documents, and presented cases in court from time to time. I wrote letters on behalf of my clients, and responded to letters in. I also did general work - matrimonial, general debt matters, and such like. Negotiated settlements or compromises. I'm also a northern lass. Northerners tend to be more direct in what they say. But usually I'm more nuanced, more careful in how things are said. So, you can see that words, crafting responses, etc, are what I've dealt with all my life, sometimes directly, sometimes in more cushioned language. TWI was thrilled to get this professional person that they'd sucked in. I wasn't over-impressed by PFAL, which even as a newbie seemed incoherent in places. I wasn't impressed by the rather childish collaterals. The grammar in these documents appalled me, but hey, I managed to see through and forgive all the mistakes to try to get to the truth of the Bible. I shouldn't have ignored the red flags, but brought my forensic skills into play. But ... one trusts church ministers. At least, they ought to be trustworthy. Religion wasn't my specialist subject; words and law are. So when I spoke up occasionally in rez, what happens? Nobody listens to what I say, but I'm treated as though I were at fault. I got told, it's not what you say but how you say it. Go and learn to speak differently. I was given loads of verses to memorise. In actuality, what they were doing was using Bible verses as a cudgel to beat me up. They were attacking a thing I was good at. They tore down my self-confidence. And it has taken all this length of time - how long is it, well over 20 years - to see where the problem really is. What the disconnect is (so, I'm a bit of a dunce at times, too!). They said one thing, BUT THEY NEVER MODELLED APPROPRIATE BEHAVIOUR. What did we get, especially in rez? The higher-ups didn't model words of gentleness or kindness, but shouting. Words of condemnation. Threats. Bullying. Manipulation. Of course, some coordinators spoke kindly, were nice people. But the Corps Coords, the Dept heads, etc, could be self-important and throwing around of their weight. What's really interesting is that nobody I know now have ever said any of those things to me, that I was accused of in TWI. People have been kind, patient, generous in their loving support. Lovely to me when I was first getting my head back in order - a (now) dear friend said when I first came on the scene, they all thought I was rather strange and that I came out with some very odd things, said and did things in a disconcerting manner. These people in my church, and the Christians I've met from other churches, model patience, kindness, genuine caring, the soft answer. The vicar did pick me up on one thing I said, that had been taken the wrong way and had caused hurt to a third party, but he did it with such gentleness and care that it wasn't a fearful confrontation but something that led to reconciliation and a good outcome for all involved. Those are excellent models to follow. I am so thankful for the patience of those who genuinely love God. And for the humble example they set.
  12. 3 points
    Thanks chockfull. You did not offend me at all, bro! I'm just a real picky fella when it comes to TWIt'n'Vic history. I know you meant no offense. POP was first read by the BOTs at WIBAP in Nashville, last weekend in March, 1986. Geer's instructions to them were to read it, then sign it to acknowledge they had read the entire thing. Then, they were to show it to me, as a "witness"'that they had indeed read it. I had no plans to attend WIBAP that year. However, I received a phone call from Howard the Tuesday before, telling me that they had booked my flights and a room in Nashville, and gave me a teaching slot. Little did I know what the real reason was! On the Saturday evening of WIBAP, da Forehead came to my door and handed me the only copy of POP there was in the USA, asked me to read it, and then get back to them immediately. Do not show it to, or discuss it with ANYONE. The original copy had the signatures of all 3 BOTS on the cover page with a short note from each. I remember them vividly because they were in 3 different colors of ink. Da Forehead blue, Don black, and Howard red. On Sunday as I was leaving, Howard told me that I'd be receiving further instructions from Geer, and plan on being at HQ in April, probably for at least 3 weeks! In April, 1986, Geer read POP at a specially called leaders' meeting which included all the limp and region coords, all the Campus coordinators and staff from every root locale, and all the corpse and staff at HQ. Immediately after reading it, Geer announced the addition of Townsend and Caballero to the BOTs, and then revealed who was to be in the yuk twig and why. He said that the members of that twig and their reason for being in it, were dictated to him by dictor himself. From that day on, I was at HQ, while my family was in MA. I went back to MA in late July, 1986 to make the move to HQ. Then I was at HQ until 12/14/1986, when we left. During that time, the yuk twig met 2-3 hours a day, EVERY single day. Some times the meetings lasted 12-14 hours! They often featured telexes from geer in Scotland with "instructions by revelation" on what we were supposed to be doing. During that time my "assignment" was Corpse Director (replacing da Forehead), In-Rez corpse coord at HQ, and "oversight" of the US Trunk as "necessary". Duke Clarke was the trunk coord at the time. The Fog Years began in April, 1985, and "ended" with the November 1988 or 89 letter from geer to the BOTs separating himself from the BOTs because of their "refusal to do the word and live the corpse principles", and refusing to change. That's here in the archives too. That preceded the "loyalty oath letter" in the beginning of the following March, either 1989 or 90. That's also here in the archives so we can check the dates. I was not booted. I resigned from everything after 10 days under "house arrest" in my trailer at HQ. All our belongings were stored and locked in the warehouse part of the OSC, to be shipped to us at a later date. Robert Belt resigned from the Southwest Region and TX limb at the end of December 1986.Tom Reahard came to my house from AZ on the weekend of 2/7-9/1987, because he was the Area Coord in Phoenix, AZ, and heard his limp and region coord, Dave Standage, announce that I was "born again of the wrong seed" and that's why I left the minus-try. Tom and I had become close friends in NY while he was at Cornell. He married Lori's best friend from Elmont, NY (Long Island), Barbara Paciano, and took the AC in Rye, NY, in March, 1972 with us. Lori and I went into the 4th corpse, and Tom and Barbara went into the 5th corpse after he graduated from Cornell. Tom grilled me all weekend and I showed him everything I had.....B.G.'s syllabus, Stiles' book side by side with RTHST, copies of the letters from the E&R church elders firing him with the reasons for it, notes and tapes from the yuk twig, etc. Tom also bought us furniture for the house since we had none. LOL! Tom returned to AZ & he resigned immediately. He called Pat Lynn (The Lynn's were limp coords in D.C.) and told her all about our weekend and told her she had to go to my house ASAP to hear what I had to say. Pat came the very next weekend, Valentine's Day weekend, and we had quite the time. That is when I had the joy of watching true, authentic repentance on her part, tearful, painful acceptance of the truth and the facts. She ended that weekend telling me, "You HAVE to get to John! If not, I'm leaving!" So arrangements were made by Rob Shipley (5th corpse) in MD, who got a large limp meeting with D.C. together, at which Pat, and Sue Pierce were in attendance. That was on Feb 21, 1987. John and Pat were still "full-time". So, I stayed at the D.C. limp home with Sue Pierce and that's when Sue and Pat came up with the idea of the letter. Pat called Tom, and he arranged and paid for the travel, rooms, and food at the local Holiday Inn in Alexandria, VA, where we spent a total of 5 days together, 3 of them writing the letter. That was 2/27/1987. After the Geer tape of 3/26/87, Howard went to the D.C. limp home on April Fool's Day, 1987, and fired John and Pat and everyone else who worked there. John and Pat were the only ones in the group who were fired. The rest of us resigned our positions, in December, '86, and February, '87. So, that's the chronology of the fawg years. The only things we need to lock in, are the dates of the Geer November letter which preceded the following March's loyalty oath letter. As I said, they're both in the archives here at GSC, so we'll be able to find them fairly easily. Thanks for reading, and.................peace.
  13. 3 points
    Thanks DWBH....... Once again, I am amazed to see that ONE CRISIS in a person's life totally cements that person to a cult. Every dynamic of her life and her son's life was changed, because of his decision to go WOW first......rather than sticking to his plan to go to medical school for OB/GYN. Life happens right before our eyes. Each decision alters the next decision......and none of us have foresight. Even in reading this account, I am saddened to hear that Carolyn had to endure this pain of the death of her son, Craig. There it is again........the dynamic intricacies of "why someone stays in a cult".... Tragedy / Crisis / Death / Transition .......and a cult ensnares your allegiance a lifetime Emotion.......one of the biggest drivers of forming one's allegiance to another Now it makes more sense...........why she stayed in twi. Thanks.
  14. 3 points
    Hi chockfull! Just to update you on the chronology you misstated....... The 37 page thing was NOT in response to the "loyalty pledge" letter sent out by the bots. That letter is here in the archives, and I believe it went out in March of 1990. The 37 pager was written to demand an Acts 15 kinda "Council of Nicea" meeting at HQ to determine the course forward after the debacles of 1986. It was written to expose the fraud of Geer's coups and the Twustees' complete "spiritual" incompetence. It was written to confront them all with the abject immorality, hubris, greed, and sexual perversions that had been known "behind the scenes", both by participants and their loyal opposition. Personally, I wanted to "let 'er rip", tell it like it really was, and get everybody into the damn auditorium until we fought it out once and for all. Typical NYC negotiation style. LOL! As you can see by the final product, that style was NOT adopted. We agreed that we had to keep it all "respectful and word-centered"(sic!) in order not to immediately cause WWIII. Again, the goal was Acts 15, confrontation, repentance, forgiveness. Obviously, that sure as hell didn't work! The basic initial attitude the bots and Geer spun, was "Who in the hell do these possessos think they are?!! How DARE they attack the MOGS like that!" Within in a month, (I believe it was 3/26/1987) the Geer tape went out to all corpse worldwide that the authors of that evil letter were all "marked and avoided", excommunicated in disgrace as Baal worshippers. LOL! We gave the original recipients of the letter ( as listed in my post above) 10 days to respond. If they did not, we told them we would bring it before the "entire Church" as Matt 18 dictates, and mail it out to everyone we had an address for. We did not get a response in 10 days and that's when the 7000 copies were mailed. Tom Reahard personally paid for the rooms and conference room we rented at the local Holiday Inn to write it, and paid for ALL the copies and mailing charges of the 7000. No TWIt money was used. Again, there was no Internet, no social media, no e-mail, no texts, no cellphones, and few wayfers had a PC. The TWIts controlled communications, command, and control. The propaganda machine went into overdrive from HQ. I had threats against me and my family requiring me to go to the local police to report them and seek protection. Sue was also grossly threatened. The letter went for the belly of the beast with hand axes. LOL. We cut it open, but the wounded beast went berserk! The letter, as weak as it may seem now, was the first step in the turning away. Small step, but a step nonetheless. One thing for sure......it dramatically and drastically changed the lives of everyone who wrote it forever, except for jally, who continued repeating the same things over and over again, expecting gawd to make jally's biblical fantasies and delusions come to pass. Looking back now, I'm glad we wrote it. I'm glad we sent out as many as we did......thanks Tom!.......and I'm glad we had any impact at all. "Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose......."--Kris Kristofferson...........peace.
  15. 3 points
    Yeah......and possibly, with mounting evidence and similar experiences with such men, these women would have been heard and believed. Amazing ain't it?........the lewd acts of sexual harassment when men have authoritative power over women GSC posters have detailed accounts of wierwille walking around naked at a women's way home, groping/raping women in motor coach. ......"Uncle" Harry groping a corps woman's breast and commenting on how firm it was. ......a young WOW Ambassador girl invited to wierwille's motor coach. Then, thrown off WOW field because she refused him. ......sex porn video of two women and a dog shown to the in-residence corps, a "Christian" training program. ......and martindale, proclaiming that vpw told him that sex outside of marriage ministers to these women's needs. ......and Rosalie deposed in a court of law, stating that she KNEW martindale was having sexual relations as early as 1995. ......then martindale, stating that he has "blessed" hundreds of women (via sex) thru the years. Rotten, sexual predation has been coursing thru wierwille's minus-tree since its inception......
  16. 3 points
    There was nothing memorable about the class when I took it. No dogs with women videos. There was negligible stuff about families, Christian or otherwise. In these days of inappropriate treatment of children, you might think there'd be loving guidelines about bringing up a child with tenderness and love (oh wait - this is TWI), teaching kids to say prayers at an early age, etc. I recall nothing of the type. There was probably a section about wives submitting to their husbands - their husbands, not to other men/other wives' husbands. Whatever - this section would have been taught in a way that pushed females to a lower status than men. (And, not followed in practice anyway, where other men's wives were fair game for VPW and LCM.) When it came to sex, there was no careful teaching about (if you like) how to make love (not sex) except that "sex starts at the breakfast table" - in other words, be nice to your wife all day if you want her to be nice to you at night. Some people are even now, and more so when this class was recorded, remarkably ignorant about how babies are made, best times to make babies, natural family planning etc. This got a brief nod and may have taken all of 5 mins. It could have been a decent, careful explanation - but it wasn't. No teaching about what happens to a woman's body during pregnancy, extra care she might need, post-partum issues, or possible loss of libido. What I do recall is a great long list of nicknames for men's and women's private parts. VPW spent a lot of time on this. We needed to know, because people might use these names to describe their sexual problems to us when we were "counselling" them, so we'd need to know what these terms meant, and not to be shocked by them. This class was a total disappointment, an abysmal waste of time, and if you'd paid for it, an utter waste of money.
  17. 3 points
    All I have to say about CF&S or any platform that gave wierwille a chance to “teach” is student beware ! I was involved with The Way International for 12 years and can honestly say (based on my personal experience as well as investigating his credentials) that wierwille was not qualified to teach about being a Christian, being a family man, about sex, or even about the Bible. I took his CF&S class when I first got involved with TWI…I remember him showing graphic pictures of couples having sex while he makes remarks along the lines of “I’ve so renewed my mind that I don’t see this as offensive” …I also remember him suggesting the original sin committed by Adam & Eve was masturbation - - I’m not kidding. Fast forward to some 10 years later – I’m in the Family Corps program – during a CF&S type class in residence, and wierwille hosts a pajama party – adults and TEENS are present. He shows a porn video of women having sex with a dog. Afterward he tends to the palpable shock in our group by again going along the same lines as he did in the original CF&S class I took years ago and also throwing in some leadership lessons too since now we’re corps – stuff like “I’ve so renewed my mind that this stuff is not offensive to me…how are you going to counsel believers if you’re shocked by something like this…” he even justified this highly offensive and sexually depraved “teaching” session by saying something like “anything done in the love of god is okay.” Gosh, he must have really “loved” us a lot. oh by the way...welcome to Grease Spot, KingTravel4 ! now aren't you glad you asked about CF&S ? well, don't just take my word for it...there's lots of other threads in About the Way forum that reveal the darker side of wierwille (not known to the general public) - you might want to do some reading. hope you stick around awhile.
  18. 3 points
    well the first step was now to require all the PLAF grads to take WAP so they were the first classes. then their kids. if you string that out long enough eventually maybe a new person or two would show up. I recall the manifestation part in WAP was in a private group not in a bedlam in front of class. as to your question, in the Way, $h1t always flowed downhill. so it could be the leader's fault, or it could be the sheeple's fault for not 'undershepherding' well enough. or the weak link in the chain somewhere, wherever a sycophant wanted to target. as far as pressure to run classes there was always that, and varying standards for what you needed.
  19. 3 points
    After thinking about one poster’s recent attempt at revising history...or was it creative writing....I dunno - whatever the he11 you want to call his perspective on PFAL ‘77 - - I thought I’d give it a try and will employ a great technique I learned from the “master “ himself by plagiarizing a little bit from the gospel crucifixion account: It was about the ninth session, and the whole mess was plodding along like it always did - and there was darkness over the whole class like it was in the beginning with audio and Beta tapes. wierwille said to himself “ i am finished - ain’t no way I can pull this off again” ; then he cried in a loud voice “I thirst!” - and immediately one of his assistants refilled his cup with Drambuie. looking down from the double-cross he liked to pull on his adoring fans he said “my peeps, behold thy teacher.” Then one of the ordained who stood guard, shook his head and said to himself “this truly is a waste of time.”
  20. 2 points
    En Garde! Will there be retemory cards? We need retemory cards.
  21. 2 points
    I recently ran across a video(see below) of Bruce Gore , a former Dispensationalist, who traces the line of theologians from whom the doctrine of Dispensationalism has become so popular in this day and time. Various forms of Futurism as a system explaining biblical eschatology(end times) have been around before the 1830’s, but “Dispensationalism” is a relatively new creature. The origin of Dispensationalism as an elaborate system of eschatology can be traced to John Nelson Darby in the 1830’s. A man by the name of Cyrus Scofield(of Scofield Reference Bible fame) took the theology and really made it popular here in America. I looked up C.I. Scofield and discovered something very eye opening. Apparently he started styling himself Rev. C. I. Scofield, D.D in the 1890s but there are no records of any academic institution granting him a Doctor of Divinity degree, not even honorary. Sound familiar?
  22. 2 points
    I read the comments about this class on the link posted. Same old bs about the household blah blah blah. FYI wayfers you’re not the household and nobody is impressed by the overuse of this word. Also Merry Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas Christmas. It’s called Christmas not hoho household prevailing in the 20 th century super duper household holidays lol! Nut job’s
  23. 2 points
    Bwaaaahahahaha! Which adversary? Dictor Paul wierwille?Lurch Craig Forehead, da dancing pwesident? Rose-a-lie Fox Dykenbark? Jean Yves De Liar? There are so many! Pick one, and then call Franklin Graham or Fallwell Jr. for a cheap exorcism! Or, you can call boob and doody MoneyHands and revive and restore the bullshit from the 70s era dic-fantasies! Either way, the "adversary" will beat your absent jeezus every time! LOL!
  24. 2 points
    The Scorpion And The Frog A scorpion and a frog meet on the bank of a stream and the scorpion asks the frog to carry him across on its back. The frog asks, “How do I know you won’t sting me?” The scorpion says, “Because if I do, I will die too.” The frog is satisfied, and they set out. But in midstream, the scorpion stings the frog. The frog feels the onset of paralysis and starts to sink, knowing they both will drown, but has just enough time to gasp “Why?” Replies the scorpion: “It’s my nature…”
  25. 2 points
    They disbanded, if I got it correctly. You have to wonder how long it would take for them to realize there's no "revival" or "restoration" of an organization possible, nothing in the Bible talks about that. People, yes. The Body of Christ, the Church, sure. Israel, God's people, yes. God didn't issue a 200 year warranty on the Way Nash, Inc. There's no guarantee "it" will survive. It doesn't have to. It hasn't, and it appears it won't.
  26. 2 points
    Socks said: One thing I do know - classes taught to people in living rooms huddled on brown metal chairs every night suck. It's a painful way to reach people but many of us endured. There are better ways to pass on the teachings of the Bible and the fundamentals of the Christian faith. It works but I feel so sad whenever I see photos of people in chairs in rooms somewhere and a guy at a table up front huddled down, "teaching". They talk, you shut up and listen, questions later. There are better ways, Socks. But those don't wear you down, leading to brainwashing and Waybrain.
  27. 2 points
    Yeah, if there was a ministry program that i could sign up for i did. My last assignment was on the presidunce cabinet and was an exercise in futility...but....yes...ive been all around the way tree and climbed up and down that sucker too. The micromanagement by twi increased the deeper one went down the rabbit hole. And why wouldnt you want leadership looking over your finances? You are keeping your spiritual goals first? Right? Arent you willing to submit to the higher powers in the church? Etc...
  28. 2 points
    Hello happy people. Everyone taking their Flintstone vitamins? Stayin' frosty, my friends? Keep at it, the world needs you. My icon is gone forever I see, lost in the ether of the server moves. Till I find it, I'm using the one at left, and if you know what it means please - remember the oath of silence. I will speak of this no more. The "WAP" class - I didn't "take" it or attend it or perhaps more accurately did not endure it. Some thoughts - They couldn't come up with a better name for the replacement to PFAL than that? The acronym WAP is so useless. I know, that's not the biggest issue at stake but to put that burden on the beleaguered shoulders of an already tired and worn out membership was kinda mean. It does fit the Martindale personae though. Did a man ever exist with less charisma? I liked Craig well enough when I knew him but he always seemed like a talking mannequin. I'm being kind here. Anyway... Bliss, that brochure cover looks like it's from the 70's, was some time travel involved in it being made? I don't have any innie friends so I am missing this kind of stuff. Good reason to keep it that way. It's incredibly strange for the Way to continue to promote a filmed product taught by a person they had to fire and disavow any connection to, even for the Way. Isn't he pretty much personae-non-grata at the Way for all practical purposes? I'm sure there's some reasoning for keeping it going but it can't over come the simple reality that to even play the product requires a disclaimer. I'd love to hear how they handle that. Lemme guess - "all your questions will be answered in the Class. After. So write them down now. For later. Sign here". I would guess it fits into their overall public relations strategy (sorry, had to clear my throat writing that, I'm back) buuuut if you look at their website there's apparently no real people with names involved, other than a few lines that refer to a "Board of Directors", which is I guess all they think the public needs to know. Even the quotes of happy customers have no name credited. ****** WAP 1, 2, 3 or whatever the titles - I was reminded that Martindale isn't the teacher of the WAP course that people would attend today, it's gone through a few revisions and is currently taught by 3 Representatives, See No Evil, Hear No Evil and Smell No Evil, I guess. So it's no longer Mr. Personality doing the teaching. I guess there's a ray of light in those clouds after all, hey? The Way is a perfect example of silo'd thinking. They're locked into a progression they feel they have to uphold so they don't look outside "the box" they're in. If they were as concerned about really reaching people and helping them as they are with avoidance and covering their asses they'd see there are some very very very obvious routes they could take to "re energize" their efforts that would still give them a layer of legal protection for past events, which is what it appears they're most concerned with. ******* Now knowing how frequently The Way loses people and members shift their status with them that may serve some purposes but it makes it look like a hack job, a phony business front, which is very common in the digital world today and is marketing -101 for the masses of online media miscreants gaming your clicks. Even the Catholic Church has a big ass photo of the current Pope mugging for the camera on the Holy See site. Sight. Web site. One thing I do know - classes taught to people in living rooms huddled on brown metal chairs every night suck. It's a painful way to reach people but many of us endured. There are better ways to pass on the teachings of the Bible and the fundamentals of the Christian faith. It works but I feel so sad whenever I see photos of people in chairs in rooms somewhere and a guy at a table up front huddled down, "teaching". They talk, you shut up and listen, questions later. It's not like they're trying to teach Calculus or Advanced Trigonometry or C# or Java. It can be done around a camp fire, over the phone, in a living room setting or in a coffee shop. It doesn't have to be crammed into 2 or 3 weeks, it can be done over days, weeks, months very effectively, as Christianity is a new life and a new lifestyle. Life doesn't jam into small spaces well. Many many years ago I spent hours on the floor of my living room with friends, bibles and books strewn across the floor reading and talking and studying. We chattered like kids. Well, we were, pretty much so we did. We drank coffee like it was a sacrament. We had a great time. There was laughter, at things no one had to be cued for! No one had to tell us to be on time but sometimes I had to tell them to go home when it got late. All that metal brown chair stuff is just cruel, and needs to be kept to a minimum. I guess it's no surprise they still hustle the old stuff though, it takes little effort and probably feels comfortable to them. "ROI". I wonder when they go to sleep at night there at the Way Nash if they hear echoes across the grounds, of years past and wonder at all, about anything....probably not. Stay swell, my friends! Peace! P.S. AOS? No. Absolutely not. Uh uh. Nada. Zip. Bad cha cha. Absolute travesty, took several years for everyone involved to evoke their "plausible deniability" clause. So no. Stop it. No. P.S.S. AOS? No. Does anyone really think they got ANYthing out of it's depiction of the devil spirit realm? Anyone wanted to be just like Craig? It has about the same emotional and intellectual impact as a Celebrex commercial and the spiritual value of an Our Lady of Fatima Merry Christmas Snow Globe............ Accept no substitutes for "no". It was a washed out waste of time that didn't survive, for good reason. No - the best comparison is that it had the same impact of Craig Martindale onstage that year at the ROA, illustrating the word "kratos", where he had his "trainer", Dupe, holding a big piece of wood that he then was supposed to karate chop in half with a single slice of his all powerful hand. Except he didn't, he bruised his hand and beat on that poor board two or three times until finally even Dupe looked embarrassed. it wasn't exactly Karate Kid, put it that way. (anyone else remember that?)
  29. 2 points
    Do you remember the old phrase “this ___________ (fill in the blank with the product of your choice) practically sells itself” ? It has many useful applications - like a salesman bragging about how good his product is – to a sales manager giving a pep talk to the new recruits of his sales force. If it was that easy – then everyone should succeed at selling it. Like in the old commercial of the guy who is a natural at sales but his selling skills are not needed with this product – all he has to do is mention the name of the car and a customer swoops in and – $ ding $ - sold! I don’t know how many times I’ve been in way-meetings geared to outreach, getting a class together, moving “the word”, witnessing, etc. that more or less said the same thing in any number of clever ways. But one of the differences between selling a name brand car and snake oil (like PFAL, WAP, and any other maximum-amount-of-bull$hit-in-a-minimum-amount-of-time class) is that one is a reliable form of transportation and the other takes you for a ride…or if you prefer the savvy consumer translation: the car actually does work based on a good design of real working parts…whereas snake oil is a fraudulent liniment that does not have snake extract in it; it has come to refer to any product with questionable or unverifiable quality or benefit. I’m the farthest thing from ever wanting to be a salesman. I prefer to work with tools and fix stuff. Years ago, I was young…naïve…idealistic…and was actively searching for something – just didn’t know what it was I was looking for…I was checking out eastern religions, ESP, Edgar Cayce – but when I saw “enables you to separate truth from error” (one of the fantastic claims on the back of the green PFAL sign-up card) my heart said “sold!”…My searching was over…pass the syllabus and praise the snake oil mill. I joined The Way International because I believed that all their fantastic claims and promises were true. It’s a funny thing though…I spent 12 years spinning my wheels chasing after elusive pipe dreams – always trying to convince myself and others that all of TWI’s fantastic claims and promises of benefits were for real. I want to add a side note here that sort of relates to how I use to view PFAL. Not too long ago I found a fascinating observation made by author Daniel Klein in “Every Time I find the Meaning of Life, They Change It”, page 3: “But in recent Western philosophy, the how-to-live question has pretty much taken a backseat to the question of epistemology (How can we know what is real and true?) and logic (What are the necessary principles of reason and rational discourse?).” I use to think of PFAL as an all-in-one package…like a one-stop-shop - - I understood it to be something that answered the how-to-live question, how I could know what is real, and it would all be logical and make sense from any angle. it was supposed to solve the how to live more than abundantly question…it was supposed to enable me to separate truth from error …it was supposed to show me how to increase the power of God in my life…it was supposed to bring me to the place that I know that I know that I know… The problem with PFAL, WAP, or whatever classes they push - is that age old problem of snake oil - questionable and unverifiable in quality and benefit ....so promoters have to make a lot of empty promises and claims that the product cannot fulfill...and here's how the scam is perpetuated - we do whatever suckers do when they really buy into the product, by investing more time, money and resources...we don't want to admit we've been duped...no, we're too smart for that...besides our leaders tell us if we would simply believe in the greatness of what's in this class or that class we'd have no problem getting others interested in it...the class would literally sell itself...folks would hear how much we think we're enriched by the class and they'd want to think like that too. yeah that's the ticket - talk it up big! ...so we keep telling ourselves we've got to get our believing up...be positive in our attitude...make sure we're confessing positive things... study the class materials more...keep our minds immersed in it...master it! our hope is in keeping at it so diligently - someday all that effort will payoff...I mean how smart is that? To deny the obvious - that it doesn't work...we're just fooling ourselves...it's also known as self-deception - and I'm sorry to say it but sometimes we can be so good at that. self-deception is the fine art of rationalizing away the relevance, significance, or importance of opposing evidence and logical argument...so I ask you - how's that more than abundant life working out for you? Is the lifestyle of a way-believer everything they said it was? TWI is lucky there's no lemon law for classes that have no practical value. If you buy a new car and it keeps breaking down most states have lemon laws to protect the consumer - and you can get your money back, get a different car, or whatever the state deems is a fair way to handle it...honestly, where are all the benefits you're supposed to have received from taking the classes? what kind of results have you seen by applying what you've learned in the classes? …Oh, by the way, this post is not about revealing TWI's formula for snake oil. You can read about that in lots of other threads in the About The Way forum. No, these are tips on selling snake oil for all you reluctant sales reps out there (folks still involved with The Way International). Ready for the first tip? You have to convince yourself that the __________ (fill in the blank with your choice of the maximum-amount-of-bull$hit-in-a-minimum-amount-of-time class) sells itself…you have to be sold on the idea that it sells itself. You MUST BELIEVE IN IT. You MUST BELIEVE IT REALLY WORKS. And remember a person convinced against their will just needed more time at the Snake Oil Mill (fyi – it’s in Ohio). Here’s a few more tips on how to sell yourself on the value of snake oil which an unspecified number of people claim actually work – figuratively speaking, of course: Visualize what success will look like – believing images of victory – picture Eve closing the sale of snake oil to the Serpent. Positive affirmations – say it again and again…say it this time like you mean it. Here’s some examples: Be the snake oil; I and my snake oil are one. Oil for one and one for oil. Walk out on your believing…literally…if you don’t believe in snake oil then leave…and don’t come back until you do. Do a word study of “and” while at the same time substituting the words “snake oil” in every occurrence; for example, Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven snake oil the earth.
  30. 2 points
    Thanks for that YouTube by Bruce Gore, InfoAbsoprtion – I loved his fascinating little history lesson on how dispensationalism came to be such a dominating theological viewpoint in our culture…from Darby to Brooks to Scofield to Chafer and then with Hal Lindsey’s book “The Late Great Planet Earth” in 1970 which was so popular even folks who never showed much interest in the Bible latched onto the idea…Gore made some comment about Lindsey’s book – something like that’s when dispensationalism got out of the evangelical ghetto and into the bloodstream of Americans across the board. Pretty funny way of putting it – I got a kick out of that. His closing comments – though brief – were very powerful, in my humble opinion. In being a former dispensationalist, he talked about how that frame of thought can become a huge distraction – that there is nothing wrong with speculation but when it becomes an obsession it can overshadow the importance of Christ. With me being a big fan of the Gospels I tend to think he’s right. Skimming through “Introduction to Biblical Interpretation” by Klein, Blomberg, and Hubbard while I was listening to Gore (I was looking for the references to dispensationalism I had highlighted from previous readings) I found on page 335 something that may indeed show a dismissive mindset: Dispensationalists have traditionally reserved Jesus’ Kingdom ethic for the millennial age and have not found it directly relevant for Christians now. ‘nuff said.
  31. 2 points
    Cool - I figured you'd fill in more facts. Not so sure about misstated when many details have a ? in back of them. So yes, the timeline on this I have straight now. Geer's Poop paper was 1986 Corpse Fellowship. Everyone was kind of staggering around after that. By 9 months later, you guys had already assimilated that letter, sent it out, then Geer responded with his assessment tape and since loyboy and coward were pretty much under his spell then, you guys all got booted. After that, the BOT's were still under his spell for another year, then they separated from Geer in 1988, and after that loyboy went on the attack. The loyalty letter was sent out 1988 summer and others who may have even quoted your letter saying "I stand with God and on the Word, not for or against anyone" got booted too. I didn't mean to offend you criticizing the writing of the paper. I never was a fan of the jallyroll writing style. His books always got on my nerves too. Like a too happy clown or something. That timeframe everyone was under what is termed "the Fog Years". Plenty of threads on that here at GS. Everyone was depressed, didn't know what to do or where to go or what was true. That's why it was termed "the Fog Years". So in the midst of all that fog is where this letter arose. You guys were confronting the BOT on being "off the Word". But here's the rub. Myself and most of everyone else had ABSOLUTELY NO CLUE that there was a perverted sexual swinger's club that was running the ministry at the time. So when the language was toned down perhaps from your original thoughts and intent, we didn't know about dictor's perversions. I honestly never knew about any of them until Waydale and GSC, other than what I was told by the party line in the Way after you guys left. Like I say, I was a young mushroom. Kept in the dark and fed bull.... Anyhoo, that's what the Who says "Talkin' Bout My Generation". I think accurately the fact that you guys sent out 7000 copies of that letter probably was a major contributor to the 4/5 Exodus from the Way that happened during that timeframe. I was the frigging remnant.
  32. 2 points
    Yeah.....a whole case study would unveil how twi was always grabbing for the coattails of money, privilege and reputation. Money..............lynn sr. and gifting that big, limb home in Indianapolis to twi. Money..............reahards building that home in the way woods Privilege/Fame........Irving Fryar, professional football player......or that woman tennis professional......or that amazing rodeo clown Reputation........Dr. Carolyn Rawl1ns who had delivered some 20,000 babies BEFORE taking pfal...... Money/privilege/fame/reputation..............ALL before taking pfal. Yet.........wierwille/twi were "glory-grabbers" trying to make it look like pfal CHANGED everything.............pppfffffffftttttttt. And then, there were people like gary and patricia. If I remember correctly, patricia was an only child and her wealthy parents were from NY or NJ. Clearly because of family wealth, gary and patricia were able to move into a nice, three-bedroom home within a couple of months of graduating from the 8th corps. Nice home and furnishings......and a good environment to start one's family. But.....I do chuckle a bit, in reading about that class "Keys to Financial Liberty wherein G@ry Fr3d3rick teaches things like net worth, budgeting, tracking finances, recovering from a hardship, retirement planning"....... I would think that many of us here on GSC could better teach the aspects of recovering from a hardship..........
  33. 2 points
    Yeah.......and a large gift/inheritance from the wife's side of the family sure boosts one's lifestyle, too. LOL In 1980.....after just graduating from the 8th corps, gary and patricia go on hq-staff, buy a house in st. marys [no mortgage ??] and gary drove a shiny bmw. To their credit, they don't flash their lifestyle around......but clearly, they were not in the "same neighborhood" as us other staffers. Ever notice.......those with money hung in the same circle of friends? You know, those families that have pictures of yearly trips to Vail or Steamboat, Colorado to ski for a week. A series of pictures of the whole family decked in the finest ski jackets and/or wining and dining at exclusive restaurants. Wierwille and twi always gave preferential treatment to those with money ties.......lynns, moneyhands, and others. So, yeah........it ain't all that hard "to budget" when your parents gift you with a million or two (before you even have the firstborn).
  34. 2 points
    @DWBH: sorry if I offended you when I said what I did about that letter. I didn't mean to be offensive to you. Yes, of course you were all Waybrained at the time so of course all that Wayspeak made it onto the page (and yes, I was like that too, for a long time after I was banished). Reading the letter now, decades after all that strange manner of speech has been eroded, is like looking at a foreign language document. Or maybe some work by Chaucer ("Wow, did people really speak like that?") I had had the impression that it was just a letter sent to the "trustees" [not that they were trustworthy at all] and only to them. I honestly can't imagine them reading it with seriousness, except to find out who'd written it, so that they could be banned. I am very glad a wider circulation provoked a mass exodus. Think how many lives were rescued - both immediately, and also those who never got sucked in because the potential suckers-in had unsucked themselves. Just a bit of an off-topic: I have no difficulty believing and understanding that at times it was very difficult in TWI under VPW. I frequently think that some of the older pre-LCM-prez posters here haven't a clue about the horrendous goings-on under LCM's "posidency." Lunchtime meetings, for example, could be a screamfest from LCM for over an hour. Corps Nights were sometimes a 3 hour screamfest. The atmosphere of suppressed violence, suspicion and spying on others was everywhere. I don't want to derail this thread, but a little understanding goes both ways.
  35. 2 points
    You think sitting through this class as a student was embarrassing? Imagine the level of embarrassment felt standing in front of the class as a presenter.
  36. 2 points
    Well…so much for wierwille’s and top leadership’s expertise in discerning of spirits – I mean, if one of those wrong seed ne’re-do-wells can make it all the way to being the trunk coordinator of USA! …man oh man, I’m gonna have to reevaluate all that stuff I learned in the Advanced Class. (actually – I’ve relegated all that stuff to the junk table at the back of my own Advanced Class – which explores the possibility of TWI’s top leadership being operated by all nine daimons all the time. ) But seriously, thanks to WordWolf for starting this thread, to HAPe4me for the link/PDF of the letter - I’ve downloaded it and look forward to reading it in light of the illuminating context provided by DWBH and Penworks.
  37. 2 points
    The adults walked away............... The adults saw thru vic's schtick ...... The adults had their own lives and work to do.... The adults weren't going to get succored into cheap, knock-off sex tripe.... All thru the years, 1958--->.........most adults walked away from wierwille.... The youth stayed........ Checking things out......and the camaraderie of others around them.... The young mind is not fully developed until age 25... The naïve mind dismisses things that a discerning mind sees.... The "renewed mind" doesn't see sin in "the man of god" [pfal]...../snarc The cult mind has been indoctrinated by incremental steps.... The culthead invests decades into worthless drivel and cult worship.... Damn.......sure wish that I'd WALKED out of that CF&S class and away from twi !!
  38. 2 points
    That letter was Pat Lynn and Sue Pierce's idea. Sue was there for the entire time (3 days) it took to write it. The original intent was to let 'em have it, patterned after Zola's I Accuse. But, Jally was still full-time staff in D.C. He stated that if we were too "raw", no one would ever read it, pointing out that our eventual audience would be wayfers only. So, we toned down the rhetoric and went Wayspeak Bible on them. That was why, at the end, after we signed it, I stood up at the table and pulled jally up by his shirt collar, pulling his face directly up to mine, and said with great seriousness: "You better not fuck us on this John!", then let him go. Well, Jally DID fuck every one of us who signed that letter including his own wife. As far as any long-term effect from the letter, after the initial mailing to the BOT, Region and Campus Coordinators and the limp coordinators in the states we were from, jally got hold of a mailing list and we sent out 7000 copies of the letter to everywhere including several other countries! This prompted the March, 1987 Geer tape to the world, and the first exodus of thousands began to roll around the US! Every corpse person on Earth was told if they read that stupid letter they'd get possessed. Anyone known to have read it, or had a copy was dropped from the corpse. Word went out from HQ that if anyone talked to any of those who wrote that letter they'd immediately get possessed. However, the 7000 made thousands more copies, and, as I said before, they were leaving by the thousands. Eventually, the word from HQ was that Sue Pierce and Dubofsky were "born again of the wrong seed", and the "others" were "packing multiple vicious daimons.....5 Star Generals", and no one but tippy-top leadership could handle us! So, I disagree strongly with Twinky's trivialization of the impact of that letter. In response to that mass exodus, we decided to incorporate CES the following May, 1988. Immediately upon signing the 501(c3) charitable corporation incorporation papers, Robert Belt, Sue Pierce, and I resigned from the "founding" board of directors and never participated in anything jally ever said or did since. The rest of us, except for Tom, all went back to school......Robert--Business.....Sue--Baptist and then Methodist Seminaries, and Dubofsky-- Nursing School. Jally never changed what he was doing. Never went to any "ministerial" training other than TWIt'n'dic. Just kept on doing the same thing with just a few "new" teachings he took from the signatories to the letter. The three of us resigned because jally wanted to add Schoenheit and the Graesers to the BOD, and pay to move them to Indianapolis, as well as have Monentus "officially" endorsed by CES. The three of us said if you do that we quit, so we did. The letter most certainly was wayspeak and waybrained. I was out of TWIt for 2 months, Lynns were still full-time, Robert was 1 month out of TWIt, Tom just 3 weeks, and Pat for 2 weeks? Jally was still full-time staff! Sue had been traveling and teaching, as well as presenting an incredibly insightful critique of AOTS, since early fall, 1987. How far away from wayspeak and waybrained were you at those stages of your exit, Twinky? Just sayin'....... it is my opinion that, the 37 page letter struck terror into the hearts of the twustees, and pushed Geer's insanity beyond limits acceptable to thousands of wayfers around the world. The TWIt you were in Twinky, was quite different from the one we "letter writers" left. Maybe talking with some of those who were in and left at that time might engender a little more understanding of exactly what that letter meant to the downfall of TWIt at that time with NO Internet, social media, or any allies in our cause. Thanks for reading.
  39. 2 points
    Yeah thinking some more about Chockfull & Twinky posts - I must say “great” research TWI - “studying” an ancient culture’s economical system as a basis for modern day financial strategy.. I’m not a financial wizard or anything - not crazy about going into debt either - but my wife and I don’t live beyond our means - it’s the way things work in the real world - to buy a home, further your education, start a business - sometimes people need loans. Yeah, this is one bit of TWI’s “research” that I think has a hidden agenda behind it. And I think it’s financial hobbling - it’s my opinion their intent is to keep followers strapped for money to prevent them from straying from their influence. Really it’s a twofold exploitation: 1. send a generous portion of your hard earned money to them AND 2. don’t get tied up in anything that will keep you from putting the ministry first. I once left a job because the boss would not take me off the on-call roster - it was interfering with my responsibilities as a Twig coordinator, don’t cha know! I think if someone can exert a major influence in your decision-making process over money matters - they more or less can determine where you will live, what you will do for work, how far you’ll go career-wise, the quality of your health, how many kids you’ll want to have , where your kids will go to school, etc. Funny...what happened to the “increases prosperity” claim on the back of the green PFAL sign up card? I guess their “research” found some changes were in order.
  40. 2 points
    The only thing that would bother me is that I bought extended warranties on a bunch of stuff
  41. 2 points
    Yes, no doubt. Filling in details... WAP - this one was an interesting one. So the 67 class was so outdated by this time it looked like season 1 of Star Trek. Fancy that. So the "research department" wasn't around, mainly because after the fog years loyboy pretty much fired every single last person in the department. Then good buddy Wayne started hanging around a bit, he was the family corpse coordinator. He actually went to class in college unlike football athletes. This was around the time loyboy is writing his Acts book - the one never mentioned again. Loyboy is actually probably studying scripture during this time and exchanging notes with Wayne. They basically took PFAL and re-worked the outline of the class. This was probably heavily Rozilla involved as she can micromanage a teaching plan like nobody's business. Then Loy taught it on stage at the auditorium - they re-worked it all and bought broadcast quality cameras. At the end they paraded him around and gave him a smoking jacket that was reminiscent of Hugh Hefner. He sent us all a picture from the Bahamas while we were taking 10% pay cuts. WAP 1.5 - so WAP really was never destined to last. Too much anger towards the gays. Too much subtext going on with loyboy losing his wife to Rozilla. The lawsuits. The power grab. The exile. So in the gap, when in doubt, what do you do? Make the corpse do the work. The lesson plan must go on. So the corpse had to teach out of the red syllabus. They freak out. People are doing like 10 hours of prep for every hour of teaching, trying to master the material in a short period of time. So guidance is given to spend one hour in prep for one hour of teaching. So classes turn into a read-the-syllabus-a-thon, and sound a lot like the STS. People sit there with mind-numbingly bored looks on their face. Corpse interjected personal stories to alleviate their pain. But oh no, this cannot be. It must be franchised to be controlled. Thus WAP 2.0 - the upgrade. Teachers without sordid sexual pasts. Use of broadcast cameras. And a video review by one of the Stepford wives at the beginning of each segment. Ladies and gentlemen we have an advancement in animatronics. A real live person that sounds like a robot you would listen to at Disney. The rest of the class is just kind of ... meh. Trying too hard for a metaphor - like chocolicious Rupp. But hey - now with a lesson plan and broadcast cameras they can rule the world. All by re-working a set of materials gathered by a plagiarist. Now they can do things like coming down on corpse for not plugging enough brain dead recipients in to their DVD player, making people do Jehovah's witnessing type neighborhood canvassing, etc. etc. while they sit back and enjoy the money and the fame. Except for that the class is based on re-worked, re-regurgitated research work picked through from old materials. So it doesn't spread like wildfire. In fact, this approach drops followers off so fast that they now no longer need to run an Advanced class every year. So to me the Way is looking more and more like Jehovah's Witnesses all the time. Comic book level materials from the ruling class along with a heavy-handed approach mandating sales quotas from oppressed followers. But hey, they are "staying faithful to their commitment to the Word", right? Keep taking that blue pill, and keep staying a slave.
  42. 2 points
    More yes-men teach segments: Two Advantages As you noted, if one exits twi......only certain sections need to be redone. But the bigger advantage............since rozilla is not adept at teaching (that's an understatement!) having several people teach the fnc/int/adv classes, it removes the "adulation factor to THE TEACHER" diffusing its effect. Whereas, now......everyone knows that the one who orders the policies and mandates, i.e. the administrative side, is where the adulation spotlight and power levers reside. NO LONGER does the cult need a charismatic leader at the helm...........although, it's good to have him nearby in the grave where he surpassed sainthood and is lauded as mog-status with all the gift ministries, including sexual predation and a plagiarist drunk.
  43. 2 points
    waysider, now you know the Way would never re$ort to looking at thing$ from a financial per$pective. And Ro$alie would never per$onally do $omething like per$onally call a large contributor or anything like that. kind of more like in addition to being a $ale$ rep, you paid for the privilege to attend by being on the cla$$ crew.... can you $ay $$$$$lave labor? money for nothing and being $creamed at by d1cks for free.
  44. 2 points
    I left. But because TWI uses The Bible, it can employ the Christians to do their dirty work. Eph 6:1 folks. Cute way to increase your numbers.
  45. 2 points
    Just my opinion here. Although The Way made money on every class they ran, it was short term. The real goal was to build a following of people who would give them 10, 15, 20% of every paycheck, time after time after time. They knew the drop-out rate for class grads would be incredibly high. That's why the push to recruit was so aggressive. From a sales and marketing point of view, it's simple math. It was never about "bringing people to the Lord" or however else you choose to phrase it. We were unpaid sales reps, working for 0% commission.
  46. 2 points
    My "current view of the Bible"? No "problen". My personal "Canon" of the New Testament Begins with Matthew and ends at Acts 28. I accept nothing Saul of Tarsus wrote in his personal communications to various "churches" in different cities, or to specific individuals, as being "the God-breathed Word and Will of God". Nor do I care about the other New Testament epistles or The Book of Revelation. I consider the teachings, actions, and mission of Jesus Christ to be the doctrinal and practical center of HIS Church, not the Pauline or any other epistles. Why should these letters be any more "God-breathed" than those referred to as The Apocrypha? You're expecting me to be believe the Canon of the New Testament is also God-breathed? As far as the Hebrew Old Testament, there are parts I believe are inspired (e.g. Psalms, Proverbs, the "Major" Prophets) and others that I feel exactly the same about as I feel about the Pauline Epistles. That's my current view in a nutshell T-Bone. Great question. I could go into lengthy explanations for the statements I made above, but I'd rather just respond to questions or comments or snide remarks if they should appear. Thanks for asking for our opinions T-Bone.
  47. 2 points
    Protest? Revisionist history much? Oh yeah.....it's Mike! Nevermind! LOL! Skyrider is far more accurate and far less disinformed, Mike. Dictor paul was far too dumb, drunk, and distracted to do much other than serve his own perverted lusts. For me, it became more and more obvious from the first week I "entered" the corpse. By piffle'77, I was so wrapped up in my corpse assignment for the 2 weeks ,("Bless Patrol" Security for all the in-residence dorm "students") that I could have cared less what crap dic was putting out on that stage. As a matter of fact, I attended only 4 teaching sessions the entire time, all in the first week. They were so smarmy, schmaltzy, self-serving and vapid, that I preferred 18-20 hrs a day "doing my job" to sitting in a POS Winegarner/Rivenbark Production to blatantly assuage dic's uncontrolled malignant, paranoid narcissism, overtly kiss his moggie ass, and establish themselves as the truest purveyors of dic's "heart". I cared not one whit about all the bullshit excuses, phoney "revelations", and political shenanigans behind the scenes. I was having too much fun "on-the-field" moving da woid as a State WOW Coordinator in MI, to give a crap about all that BS and palace intrigue. Frankly, I was so glad to NOT be at HQ that I was just not really into the Bob'n'Rosie production of dic's drunken, depraved, lunacy. Because I was a region guy of the "home region" of HQ, I was far more involved behind the scenes of AC'79 than I was at piffle'77. And, it was no fun!! Piffle was just an ego trip made worth the money the false hype and fraudulent promotion squeezed out of the several thousand "students" who paid whatever the exorbitant price was for a product which was NEVER delivered. And, it only got worse as the years slowly progressed as dic rapidly declined into the haze of substance abuse, alcoholism, and the delusions of his mental illnesses. It was less than 8 years between Piffle'77 and the day dic died. As I look back, my time in TWIt was half a lifetime for me when I left. Now, it's only a quarter! Time flies when you're having fun!!................peace all.
  48. 2 points
    Thanks for no longer posting! What a relief! Here's a good scripture quote for ya on your way out.........."suffer not a fool". Bye-bye now.
  49. 2 points
    Go Ahead, Mike...............protest as much as you like But how are you going to protest FIRST-HAND, EYE WITNESS ACCOUNTS and DOCUMENTATION from Mrs. Wierwille? She was the dutiful wife who gave her accounting of events. She documented many things that stand juxtaposed to vpw's snappy bloviating. She, too, sat in Leonard's class......and then, her husband rushed home and started signing up people for that Oct 1953 class. Idolizing wierwille doesn't change twi's historical reckoning of its theft and plagiarism. TWI was a SPLINTER from Leonard's work and class-based ministry. It is an undeniable FACT.
  50. 2 points
    I don't think it was the greatness of the research emanating (or, rather, being copied and redistributed) from New Knoxville. For me, it was the logic of the fundamentalist approach as described (by Bullinger and then distributed) by VPW. The keys to research made sense to me, and the proclamation that, if TWI teaching was found to be inaccurate, it would be changed. There was even a minor change in the teaching about "Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani" to demonstrate TWI's dedication to research. Of course, when anyone used the keys to show that some TWI doctrine was bunk, he was castigated as unknowledgeable, compared to the Great Vic. I was on the receiving end of THAT discussion, a number of times, before I was finally cast out into the light. George
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